Religious Rant (Stay away if you are sensitive to topic)

[TeaMMatE11]

Apologies in advance. This topic is going to get serious. I mean no harm to what other's believe. I just have to put this somewhere. This is going to be a sensitive topic.


If you are at ALL offended by religious discussions, DO NOT LOOK AT THIS THREAD. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. If you have an open mind, keep reading.





With that out of the way...


Let me just start off by saying I am a Christian. I'm not the one to go out into the streets and shout, "You're going to hell if you don't believe in God!"


No. That's the WORST approach. Ever. In existance.


I also hate the people who misunderstand Christianity, and take verses out from the Bible out of context. Yes, there is a lot of messed up crap in the Bible, and yes, I do believe everything that happened in it. However, the people who take the verses out of context are the voices that are heard, and it just drives me NUTS.


They're fearful of Christianity because they don't UNDERSTAND The Bible. Granted, it's hard to read, and it is abstract. I also hate the notion that Christians can't be scientists. Who came up with that stupid argument? Just becuase the conservative Christians don't believe in evolution, doesn't mean we all follow that belief. I love science. I love technology.


I hate it when people use the Crusades as a gateway to say that Christianity is a violent religion. Yeah...a religion based around love is a violent religion...Uh huh...


Look, back in the 12th-13th century, religion was the big influence. They essentially said that if you went to war against the Muslims, you will be free of sin. But wait! There's more! The church essentially said, "I'll let you commit a sin to be free of your sin."


The Catholic Church in Europe at the time was the "big government," commanding all the people following it like pawns. This is EXACTLY WHY THE REFORMATION HAPPENED: Martin Luther pointed out all the fallacies of the Church.


I just had to write this, I had no one else to talk to about it. Ask any questions below, AS LONG AS THEY ARE RESPECTFUL FOR THE BOTH OF US.


If this turns into a bloody forum war, I WILL HAVE THE MODS SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN. Again, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. I will take NO responsibility. I cannot control who reads and posts. I've typed MULTIPLE warnings.





Thank you for listening to my rant.

 

[Icerex]

So, you say that you believe everything in the bible did happen. But not Genisis? 'Cause you do say that your not one of those evangelicals that think evolution and the big bang are evil.

 

[TeaMMatE11]

So, you say that you believe everything in the bible did happen. But not Genisis? 'Cause you do say that your not one of those evangelicals that think evolution and the big bang are evil.

I believe in both science and religion. In fact, I believe they go Hand-in-hand with each other to explain the beginning of the world. Science and religion has their own gaps, but both fill each other's.

 

[Icerex]

I don't really see how Genisis can co-exist with the current scientific worldview. Unless you throw that part out, which brings up the original question.


Care to explain your reasonings?

 

[Role Model]

The reason evolution was such a, and is still a, controversial topic was because it directly contradicts the ideology that humans were created in God's image and, therefore, should have no reason to "evolve".


If humans WERE to have evolved, that would mean God's image was flawed.


(Mind you, I'm an atheist.)

 

[TeaMMatE11]

I don't really see how Genisis can co-exist with the current scientific worldview. Unless you throw that part out, which brings up the original question.
Care to explain your reasonings?

The Big Bang theory falls hand-in-hand with the Biblical point of view. Both say that there was a blinding light when the universe was originally created. Science says that, there are a few constants: (rate of expansion on initial explosion, temperature, quarks and anti-quarks). All of these constants happened so perfectly that top scientists say the chances of the universe actually being created is next to impossible. This leads that an a supernatural being had to be in control.


A Christian comedian also pointed out the holes in scientific explanations. When Earth was created, it took 2 billion years to go from 1-cell organisms to 2 cell. Then it took 500 million years to go from 2-4 cell organisms. He then went to the chemist. The comedian found out that a certain point, the atoms imploded on themselves, thus creating nothing.


I believe that God had something to do with all the evidence modern science has of what we know of the universe.

 

[Mordecai]

Okay, just wanted to say... you can't "create nothing." You can't create anything. The only thing that is capable of happening is a change in state, nothing is ever created or destroyed. *slips out*

 

[TeaMMatE11]

Okay, just wanted to say... you can't "create nothing." You can't create anything. The only thing that is capable of happening is a change in state, nothing is ever created or destroyed. *slips out*

Well...I mean...I meant we are practically made of nothing because atoms implode on themselves.....

 

[Role Model]

Law of Conservation of Energy.

 

[Mordecai]

Also, atoms can't implode, at least in any way that has ever been seen/discovered. Atoms can split though and explode, like in radioactivity. The nucleus is packed in too tightly for it to fall in on itself. Furthermore, electrons are heavily repelled by the protons, so they won't just fall in.


If an atom is unstable, it can decompose and cause nuclear fission. ^__^ Anyways, I'm a chemist. I really don't have opinions on religion, just wanted to share the chemistry.

 

[Icerex]

Genisis specifically states that the world did not get created in a bang of light. The earth was named as an entity and apparently there was water. Water? Plus, god made the entire earth, including plants and vegitation, and 'light' before he created the stars, sun and moon.


That kinda flies in the face of what we know how stars and planets are formed.

 

[Role Model]

Here I'll make this simple.

Explanation	Earth's Beginning
Religion	Giant fishbowl
Science	Giant ball of molten fire and hot ass gasses

 

[TeaMMatE11]

Genisis specifically states that the world did not get created in a bang of light. The earth was named as an entity and apparently there was water. Water? Plus, god made the entire earth, including plants and vegitation, and 'light' before he created the stars, sun and moon.
That kinda flies in the face of what we know how stars and planets are formed.

The Big Bang theory states that an egg shape of an infinitely dense mass....


Let's stop there for a second. You cannot have an infinitely dense mass, as far as science is concerned. Even more so, everything necessary for the universe to start was packed into a molecule smaller than a singular proton.


He confesses that “probably the most serious shortcoming of the big bang is its inability to go back to the very beginning of time and space."


This is a quote from a scientist who says the opening statement of the Bible is a possible way for the universe to have started.


Another problem: where did the "egg" come from?

 

[Icerex]

And that's where science is willing to admit that we still don't know. The only difference between the scientific viewpoint and yours, is that you just substitute 'we don't know' with 'God did it.' And no, the big bang was not an infinite 'egg' of mass. It was just very compressed.

 

[TeaMMatE11]

And that's where science is willing to admit that we still don't know. The only difference between the scientific viewpoint and yours, is that you just substitute 'we don't know' with 'God did it.' And no, the big bang was not an infinite 'egg' of mass. It was just very compressed.

I said that it's a theory. Even I don't know what's in the gaps. No one knows for sure. You should look up a scientist named Robert Jastrow. He'll have better explanations than I can ever give.

 

[jiminie]

I have a question totally unrelated to the current Genesis/Big Bang talk.


What is your view of God? Do you view/envision him as a person or being or as an entity type thing/a force etc?


I'm really interested in what other people view 'God' as being.


(I don't follow a specific religion but I like the concepts of a few).

 

[Icerex]

If God where to exist, which is unprovable at the moment, but I'm willing to not rule that option out, I'd in vision him/it as a generaly non-meddling entity. Helps me sleep better at night thinking that all the crap in the world is due to our own making, and not from Devine intervention/non-intervention.

 

[Role Model]

By not intervening, God is only contributing to the problem.

 

[TeaMMatE11]

By not intervening, God is only contributing to the problem.

The thing is, He did give us free will. Adam and Eve had the choice to follow God or eat the forbidden fruit. They chose the latter. Technically it's the serpent's fault, but humans were still punished.

 

[Role Model]

Oh, I'm well aware of what the bible says.


But using that ideology, here's a situation.


You're walking down the street. You see a group of young men, beating the absolute shit out of some other young man. One of the men in the group pulls out a small handgun, and points it at the victims head and yells "This is what you get for owing us money, bitch!".


You have free-will, yes. You could walk away. You could ignore the situation. Hell, you could even call the police. But all of those choices wind up with the victim dead.


Ignoring the problem, or even waiting to fix it until you yourself are safe, only contributes to the problem.

 

[Icerex]

I still don't get why people think Adam and Eve had free will. It spacifically states that they are like children, without the knowledge of good and evil. How can an ignorant child be expected to act in a mature manner and understand the consequences of their actions? God was being a total dick when he stick the tree of knowledge in the garden, seems like he was just waiting for someone to screw up so he could jump out with a 'Gotcha!'

 

[TeaMMatE11]

Oh, I'm well aware of what the bible says.
But using that ideology, here's a situation.


You're walking down the street. You see a group of young men, beating the absolute shit out of some other young man. One of the men in the group pulls out a small handgun, and points it at the victims head and yells "This is what you get for owing us money, bitch!".


You have free-will, yes. You could walk away. You could ignore the situation. Hell, you could even call the police. But all of those choices wind up with the victim dead.


Ignoring the problem, or even waiting to fix it until you yourself are safe, only contributes to the problem.

Another possible option is that the people who beat up in the kid in the first place, would have their lives decline, as Aaron Burr's career did when he shot Hamilton.


The problem with hypothetical situations is that anything can happen.


Francis Chan, a prominent preacher in the Christian community, wrote the story of his ministry. He was out in the street one day, and saw a kid get beat up, much like this situation. He then regretted not helping the kid in any way.

I still don't get why people think Adam and Eve had free will. It spacifically states that they are like children, without the knowledge of good and evil. How can an ignorant child be expected to act in a mature manner and understand the consequences of their actions? God was being a total dick when he stick the tree of knowledge in the garden, seems like he was just waiting for someone to screw up so he could jump out with a 'Gotcha!'

Satan (the serpent) is the one who tripped up Adam and Eve. In the Bible, what's interesting is that God punishes the serpent first before punishing humans. So it was the Devil's plan who tripped up the Earth, not God's.

 

[Icerex]

So, in a just system, humans would have been given a second chance because they where insnared. (Just like police cannot urge you to break the law, then arrest you, it would be thrown out in court) Secondly, if it was Satan's fault, then wouldn't that mean that God is not, A. omnipotent, or B. is perfectly fine with Satan's actions?

 

[TeaMMatE11]

So, in a just system, humans would have been given a second chance because they where insnared. (Just like police cannot urge you to break the law, then arrest you, it would be thrown out in court) Secondly, if it was Satan's fault, then wouldn't that mean that God is not, A. omnipotent, or B. is perfectly fine with Satan's actions?

Humans ARE given a second chance. That's exactly why Jesus had to die: to forgive us of our sins. Jesus is the connection between us and God. THAT is our second chance. Christianity is unique in the fact that we don't go to an omnipotent entity; He comes down to us.


Humans are undeserving of the grace that God grants us. Jesus loved us so much he died on the cross.


To picture this; imagine a 10 year old kid walk into death row, to die, so that the inmates in prison are set free. Are the prisoners deserving of the forgiveness? No. But that's exactly what God did.


By dying on the cross, Jesus accomplished 2 things: 1) forgiveness for us. 2) defeating sin.

 

[Icerex]

If the 10 year old comes back to life the very next day, it's not much of a sacrifice. (Not to mention trying to portray Jesus as a innocent 10 year old is kinda dishonest. He's a literal god, not some poor child)


Still the question stands on whether god is not omnipotent or just let's Satan do his thing regardless.