Questions about Mass Combat

[DasDom]

Since my players voted to play exalted as much by the book as possible, with the upside that I finally might get to play, I've got a Question about Mass combat.


Do I simply add the complementary unit's boni to the commander's stats? Means do i calculate the commanders armor and weapon into it, or do I use his bare stats without equipment?

 

[Kyeudo]

Do I simply add the complementary unit's boni to the commander's stats?

Yep. It's the "Army as Pants" analogy.

Means do i calculate the commanders armor and weapon into it, or do I use his bare stats without equipment?

He gets his armor and equipment and then tacks on the unit's stats.

 

[DasDom]

Thanks for the quick answer...but this is stupid. A Lunar warlord in heavy plate would make his naked savages invulnerable, no matter their equipment...


But if my player wish it, so be it...my Dragonblood just became really really scary thanks to his speed 3 Grand daiklave^^

 

[HowlingCoyote]

The current mass combat set-up is pretty nonsensical. It's supposed to focus on the leader, wearing his army as underpants, but... the mechanics don't work out that way, as you still need to keep track of formation and other factors. Those make sense, but the units stats are really skewed by their leader (as you've noticed).


I've kinda taken the view that, as magical superweapons, Exalted exert a weird magical effect in mass battles whereby their mere presence overwhelms their unit by the Exalt's awesomeness, even exerting a magical aura over the unit so that the Exalt, not the unit, determine their combined effectiveness, and even alters how many of the Exalt's own Charms function. If that's not the case, then the massed combat rules make even less sense.

 

[cyl]

Thanks for the quick answer...but this is stupid. A Lunar warlord in heavy plate would make his naked savages invulnerable, no matter their equipment...

Heh... welcome to our world ! :twisted:
I recommend you do the opposite, taking the Basic Average Character in your unit (use the templates in the corebook) and use the exalt as pants (giving strong bonuses to the unit) :wink:


It's a bit more realistic this way.

 

[DasDom]

Trying to find a compromise with my group, i've been looking for a easy fix for the mass combat system. I decided that I liked the point where you use the ordinary combat rules instead of an additional rulesset...I also agree with the idea that Exalted should be able to slaughter units...because that's how awesome they are.


Basic: no weapon stats are used in mass combat. Ever. I also tried to make war more important in mass combat.


Commander+Complimentary units:


- Attack (ability+Spec.+Dexterity)+Might+Unit's CC Bonus, rate 1, Speed 5 no bonus from equipment


- Raw damage= net. successes+Unit's Damage Bonus; Minimum Damage equals Magnitude


- War DV (War+Wits/2)+Might+CC Bonus of the Unit; no other DV's are used


- Soak is (Presence+Charisma/2)+ Units Armor bonus*


- Health levels are the ones of an average member...but always at least the 7 from ordinary mortals**


- charm rules as written


* The idea for this is that the units armor actually prevents the men from getting hurt, while the commanders presence prevents them from running away. Both factors make a unit harder to destroy


** I agree with the idea of extras in personal combat, but extra armies are stupid.


Solo Units


-Solo units gain Might per normal rules


-attack (combat ability[capped by war]+Spec.+Dexterity)+Might, rate 1, Speed 5 no bonus from equipment


-Raw Damage= net. Successes, min. Damage is 1


-War DV (War+Wits/2)+Might*


-Soak as in personal combat**


-may use personal charms normally without stunting. you can't regain motes through stunting during mass combat.***


*In mass combat, Its more important to keep the general situation in mind so you don't get swarmed. Being brilliant at parrying doesn't matter when people are climbing on top of you.


**Yes, that makes solo units tough to wound. But then there's alway ping damage, so even massive tanks worn down over time...as it should be.


***As explained in the book, one charm use is representing many uses fueled by stunts. Therefore no bonus motes on the mass combat level, which also serves to grind down essence pools.


What do people think of this idea?

 

[skafte]

A lot of stuff doesn't make all that much sense when thinking about Mass Combat. Like how spells and charms work when you use them in Mass Combat, how that one leader is able to make the whole magnitude 9 unit do a perfect parry, or why the tiny little Stormwind Rider that can't really lift anything is able to lift your whole unit, no matter how heavy an armor they wear.


Your explanation, HowlingCoyote, is probably the best explanation I have seen, thanks

 

[HowlingCoyote]

Your explanation, HowlingCoyote, is probably the best explanation I have seen, thanks

No problem.


The inconsistencies just bugged me too much to ignore, so I had to come up with some explanation for them.

 

[cyl]

DasDom I think you have very interesting ideas, though I'd have made War count for soak and not Presence (telling people what to do doesn't mean you can organize a whole unit engaged in the frontline).


And you'd also think the quality of armor would count a bit more in the formula to determine soak.


There's not much of a difference in terms of armor bonus between naked frenzied beastmen and elite troops, while there is in terms of soak.


As for charms and spells, yeah, I've been thinking for a long time now about inserting a Magnitude maximum trait for those, but really did not have the time to do so.

 

[Kyeudo]

I did a fix for the mass combat rules a while ago, where the quality of your troops actually mattered and the commander's War rating was more than just a cap on bonuses. Take a look if you want.

 

[Buttquakez]

I don't have that many problems with mass combat, really. How many fictional bands of ragged freedom fighters have become unstoppable military forces once the main characters decided to get involved?

 

[DasDom]

Yeah, but that's because he's a incredibly capable protagonist with the power plot (aka an exalted) not because he's halfway competent fighter with a large shiny sword...(aka grand daiklave)