Primordial Secrets

[Jukashi]

I'd like help coming up with things the primordials might be/have been aware of, but which the Exalted would never (at least commonly) have known. Stuff like the existence of other worlds out in the Wyld, or things that only existed before the primordial war, that kind of information. It could be relatively minor things, like the locations of cities that existed hundreds of thousands of years ago, or on up to major stuff, like there being another "side" to Creation that you can reach if you go down far enough. Stuff that would fun and interesting that players can be surprised with.


To be clear, I'm not asking for canonical examples of such things, but for help making them up.


On a slightly related note, however, do you think Creation "piles up" over time? That is, old things eventually get buried or sink into the earth, only to be discovered if someone actually digs down? It doesn't seem like it'd work that way, but if you were a player and this appeared in a game, would you accept it?

 

[uteck]

They know that before the Wyld crept to the edges of Creation one could look over the edge and see that it rests on the backs of four Yeddim.

 

[ghoti115]

I will see if anything comes to mind on any Primordial Secrets.

On a slightly related note, however, do you think Creation "piles up" over time? That is, old things eventually get buried or sink into the earth, only to be discovered if someone actually digs down? It doesn't seem like it'd work that way, but if you were a player and this appeared in a game, would you accept it?

To answer if I would accept it coming from my ST, yes I would.


I don't know how much sediment would have piled up over the years of creation. I guess it would depend on different circumstances.


First, are the little local Gods doing it on purpose? Are they trying to cover something up that no one should have access to? This situation lends itself well to a lead in for a Primordial Secret protected by a small tortoise who is actually a local God (well, there was already a Disc World reference).


Second, what happens to the land when it is taken over by the Wyld? I know the answer is anything, but what if an ancient canyon was filled in when the Wyld pushed the soil back into Creation or even over a vast plain?


Third, are there active volcanoes, earthquakes, or even hot springs in creation? If so, this would indicate that there is a molten layer somewhere under the land (at least in theory). This gives rise to the possibility of new soil, rocks, and ash covering the land at different points, which in turn leads to the sediment pile up.


Granted, I don’t think they would find fossils, oil, or coal if they dig down, but the idea of trying to dig up a Primordial Secret is a pretty good one. The two easiest places to facilitate this would of course be the North and the South.

 

[Cryoseraph]

I hope any of these might help.


Random Primordial Secrets


-The Daystar/Sun rises in the East and sets in the West, but on its way back, it travels across the under-creation, a flipped-world created by Szoreny with evil doppelgangers of everyone (just add evil goatees). Its entrance is likely through the Well of Udr or somewhere in the Haltan forests (where she wants to live if ever freed).


-The Daystar/Sun, while in daily rotation, moves slightly southward, making the South warmer and lighter and the North colder and darker. There is something in the North that scares the Sun however and keeps it from approaching to close unless the Unconquered Sun himself is at the helm.


-An Eclipse occurs whenever the Unconquered Sun and Luna are having a Lover's Quarrel, and the Eclipse Caste's power to learn other's charms can be stolen if Luna ever won the argument (he is unconquered after all). If Gaia ever got directly involved in such an argument, flares of energy would wrap around the eclipse, and Dragonbloods may be able to steal other powers if Gaia won.


-The three glass orbs that She Who Lives In Her Name used were not completely ruined. One is in broken shards, one is just a crystal ball with a hairline fracture, and one hasn't gone off yet!


- The Exaltations and the Great Curse gains power from the Wyld. That's why the Full Moon causes a point of limit in Lunars, why extreme emotions play up the curse more often, and why the Exalted can reach beyond destiny and shape their own fates, due to that inkling of power keeping them from being tied down by fate. It is also why Sidereals focus on Paradox instead and have a much subtler Great Curse.


-There was an Adamant-themed Exaltation, which was wiped out, but the only way to stop them from reincarnating and driving more people mad was for them to all be locked away. This is where the idea of the Jade Prison came from! Creation's sky used to have a ring around it, like if you lived on the planet Saturn due to the Incarnae of Adamant.


-There could have been an Incarnae in control of the Underworld, with Soulsteel themed-Exalts, but the UCS, Luna, and the Maidens didn't want to promote anyone into that kind of power, especially when they would have a big empty world to play with.


- If Gaia were killed, or if a Terrestrial was warped Abyssal style, Dragon-bloods would take on the corpse elements as traits (Blood, bone, pyre flame, ash). Earth aspects would either not change (white jade is plentiful down there) or disappear (the central corpse element is void).


-Malfeas and Gaia had a child. It is the Elemental Dragon of Thien-To (a concept later corrupted into Vitriol). It resides within the innermost layer of Malfeas, and is uncorrupted by both Yozi powers and by oaths of servitude. It is the power to alchemically improve and wash away weaknesses, but with no nasty sides effects like vitriol does. He wants the Yozis fixed, but not freed, and could make every terrestrial hit Breeding 6 and wipe out the 'impurities in their blood'.


-The Eye of Autochton is his literal eye, pulled out at one point because it saw something so terrible and malignant in the Wyld that it became corrupted and diseased. Autochton couldn't pull it out in time, and so he is still stricken with the sickness, and meanwhile the Eye, while a raw chunk of Primordial, has that terrible curse within it and does spread it out to others, now with the absolute worse kind of luck and powers. If the Mountain Folk or others found it and used it to bring Autochton back, he'd show up just to wipe them all out!


-Gaia left to start her own pet project, a creation of her own, without any interference from the Incarnae or other Primordials, she only needs a mate to do this with, and may have one with an Unshaped/quasi-Primodial she found name Uranus. What would Luna think if she knew?

 

[Inverse]

Prior to the Primordial War, Creation was a sphere. (Ultimate imagination cop-out!) :?


And the Fay had flying saucers. :shock:

 

[Quantum Toast]

Prior to the Primordial War, Creation was a sphere. (Ultimate imagination cop-out!) :?
And the Fay had flying saucers. :shock:

I do remember seeing a suggestion once that the Three Spheres Cataclysm destroyed outer space.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

In all actuality, the 'Three Sphere Cataclysm'? It didn't happen. Its Yozi propaganda and nothing more.

 

[Teln]

Prior to the Primordial War, Creation was a sphere. (Ultimate imagination cop-out!) :?
And the Fay had flying saucers. :shock:

Now I'm picturing Daleks fighting in the Balorian Crusade.

 

[Cryoseraph]

Hmm, Doctor Who is secretly a Sidereal of the Maiden of Time, and uses his Starmetal Screwdriver to battle the Wyld throughout the existence of Creation?

 

[LaFreeze]

Well one example that springs to mind is any part of creation the Primordials toyed with but ultimately abandoned. There could have been an elemental pole of say Aether that the Primodials scrapped and either buried or tossed in the Wyld.


Another one could be the location/what happened to first of the Jade Born. A true immortal and the template for humanity.


The last idea the springs to mind is the Primordials might know a perfect strategy to the games of Divinity. We know the King of the Primordials was never defeated in the games but the Gods go back and forth so Malfeas must have had some sort of advantage in the games that the God's lack.


And yes I do think creation buries stuff over time, or at least it used to when creation was growing under the Solars in the first age and before then. The rules clearly suggest it can grow outward no reason it can't layer itself over time too. The Wyld should in theory be in all directions after all.

 

[Revoke]

On a slightly related note, however, do you think Creation "piles up" over time? That is, old things eventually get buried or sink into the earth, only to be discovered if someone actually digs down? It doesn't seem like it'd work that way, but if you were a player and this appeared in a game, would you accept it?

It would certainly raise my eyebrow. It seems like that should take a very long time, but I suppose there was potentially many ages with the primodials in charge. It also contradicts the mountain folk material, I think. But on the other hand, the darkbroods and whatnot are failed creations the primodials stuck down there a long time ago, so it's not too far fetched to suggest that 'burying' consisted of adding a whole layer onto creation and starting again, or similar.

 

[magnificentmomo]

Another one could be the location/what happened to first of the Jade Born. A true immortal and the template for humanity.

He is The Clayman and he is kicking around the Scavenger Lands. I believe his write-up is in the Compass of Terrestrial Directions of the same name.

 

[LaFreeze]

Another one could be the location/what happened to first of the Jade Born. A true immortal and the template for humanity.

He is The Clayman and he is kicking around the Scavenger Lands. I believe his write-up is in the Compass of Terrestrial Directions of the same name.

Curse my limited access to the many volumes of Exalted. Thanks though for letting me know. I just thought it was another one of those "Its is up you" areas of Exalted like the final Death Lords or some of the ill defined Yozi.

 

[Yakumo]

A cannonical secret would be the race that attempted to control Autochthonan, but that he instead wiped out to the last being. Granted the buildings were left behind, but I don't think there is any living memory of the race themselves. Other such races killed on a whime or on purpose by various primordials must surely have existed. And since the whole refining essence for the masters/reincarnation thing was being experimented with a lot, maybe one such race is due to spontaneously be created, you know like larva under a dark ages sort of paradigm.


Really, before 1st edition came out, but during the time it was being announced (before the guantlet, before a world of darkness, etc), I pictured a lot of different sentient species, not simply the results of exalted experiments, and certainly more than the people of jade and the dragon kings. Plenty of possiblity to work in as former races.

I hope any of these might help.
Random Primordial Secrets


-The Daystar/Sun, while in daily rotation, moves slightly southward, making the South warmer and lighter and the North colder and darker. There is something in the North that scares the Sun however and keeps it from approaching to close unless the Unconquered Sun himself is at the helm.


-An Eclipse occurs whenever the Unconquered Sun and Luna are having a Lover's Quarrel, and the Eclipse Caste's power to learn other's charms can be stolen if Luna ever won the argument (he is unconquered after all). If Gaia ever got directly involved in such an argument, flares of energy would wrap around the eclipse, and Dragonbloods may be able to steal other powers if Gaia won.

Though a number of the quoted ideas were good, I had to remark these two. The first seemed really cool, even in it's Creation paralleling Earth way. The second I found funny, because I immediately thought of Luna doing the "talk to the hand" right in the US's face.


Another idea I've considered for a while is that Gaia had aa greater reason for joining the cause of the gods tan mentioned. Malfeas, her king, and possibly other Primordials, committed the primordial equivalent of rape upon her. Of course, under the current regime, she had no recourse. Even so, her motive was to end injury to herself, so once they were defeated, she still could not stand to see her king killed outright.

 

[Skyward Carp]

Long time lurker, first time poster. My big primordial secret is that Yu-shan the Low Hanging Star is the first Yozi. Crafted/yozified by the Empyreal Chaos as the ultimate expression of Ownership, she was made into a palace for himself and his brethren. Autochthon took pity on her broken mind. He bound her Fetich Third Circle Demon (a creature of intense desire) into the Games of Divinity as a means to curb the destructive acts of their Tyrant-King. His Ownership of all Yu-shan is why he always won the Games of Divinity. Killing the Fetich soul of Yu-shan is the way to wake up the Unconquered Sun by breaking the Games of Dvinity, but the collateral damage to Heaven is going to be significant.


I hope my game goes on long enough to get my PCs to this point.

 

[Ker'ion]

Nice setup.


I hope everything goes well.


Nice tag by the way. :mrgreen:

 

[Axelgear]

On a slightly related note, however, do you think Creation "piles up" over time? That is, old things eventually get buried or sink into the earth, only to be discovered if someone actually digs down? It doesn't seem like it'd work that way, but if you were a player and this appeared in a game, would you accept it?

Most discoveries of ancient artifacts are, at least initially, accidental. The same goes for discoveries of fossils. Something is dropped by a person a long time ago, it's lost, erosion and sedimentary processes lead to it getting lost beneath the dirt. Then, some time later, these same erosive processes wipe away the surface layer and someone happening by notices the shiny thing. Similarly, animals die, are covered by mud (usually in a very quick manner or they don't get preserved), turn into fossils, and are later uncovered by erosion. Then, they either get worn down over time into nothing, or they get discovered.


Plus, many times, farmers digging in their fields will unearth such things as well. Sewer workers find things buried in rock. Anyone who turns the earth will potentially find something.


Similarly, some civilizations have literally just abandoned their cities to the wilderness. There's whole cities out there in the Americas, just left for the jungles to consume. Since no-one ever wanted to record where they were, they're only found again when someone literally stumbles upon them (or via satellite data, in the modern world).


So, yeah, I'd not really have an issue with it.

 

[Dragonmystic]

On a slightly related note, however, do you think Creation "piles up" over time? That is, old things eventually get buried or sink into the earth, only to be discovered if someone actually digs down? It doesn't seem like it'd work that way, but if you were a player and this appeared in a game, would you accept it?

Like the others have said, this is completely acceptable. I mean, it happens in real life all the time! Just look at any old city: they usually have an "undercity" from people continuously building on top of other buildings for generations.


Let's see, Primordial Secrets.....


1. Autochthon invented death. He wanted to test it on something, but no Primordial was willing to sacrifice anything of their own (understandably). With the "advice" of the Dragon's Shadow, Autochthon tested death on his own sub-soul. He instantly regretted that decision. So, he went about to fix the problem, and invented reincarnation. He used it on his sub-soul to get it back. It worked...but it's not healthy for a Primordial to have parts of himself alive, dead, and reincarnated at the same time. He developed a sort of soul-cancer, and is still trying to recover from it.


A side effect of his cancer is that one of his poles converted to the aspect of Smoke, and his body is becoming flooded with deathsteel.


2. Autochthon has a robo-crush on Gaia. ("You have great tracts of land, and I mold land. Therefore it is logical that we should be in union.") He pushed the Incarnae to allow her to have an Exalted type. He created the Dragonblood for her as a show of affection. However, when he was about to present them to her, he found her and Luna together. Dejected, he left the dragonblood on her "doorstep dragon elements," crying robo-tears on his way home.


Autochthon hates Luna, consequently.


3. Autochthon created the Deathsteel Prototype as an idea for "his own" Exalts. The Unconqured Sun shot down this idea, because he thought it would exacerbate Autochthon's soul-cancer. (He was probably right.)


4. Alright, enough about Autochton. There "is" a Primordial of time; Takemitsu, From Whom What We Call Time Flows. He has three specific sub-souls, the Past, the Present, and the Future. By his nature, the Future is invisible to the other Primordials, save Saarchaval, the All-Seeing Eye. Upon the creation of Creation, the Primordials decided to only take one active timeline of use from Takemitsu. Takemitsu was unhappy with this, and without the consent of the other Primordials, keeps alternate timelines of Creation in his view. (Hence, the book of Shards)


Takemitsu is a highly probably parent of the Maidens of Destiny. Specifically, The Past could have fathered Jupiter and Saturn, the Present could have fathered Venus and Mars, and the Future could have fathered Mercury and Nox.


Tekemitsu is “now†a Neverborn. If he ever lets go and reincarnates, the time streams of Creation will collapse. (Time could be rebuilt after he reincarnated, though. By the nature of time, nobody on the inside would realize time collapsed and was rebuilt.)


The Past is probably the most dead a Primordial aspect can be. This is why you cannot change the past: it is only a corpse of what it once was.


The war with The Future during the Primordial War caused the War of Cascading Years.

 

[Arhra]

A 'secret' I intend to have a lot of fun with:


Autochthon's disease is the product of his self loathing and his sincere wish to die.


And for something random:


Creation is actually spherical.


A hollow sphere in fact, with the land being on the inside. Yu Shan is inside a sphere of adamant at the center that the Sun and the Moon orbit.


The directional poles could be the equator and there's either some wacky mirror Creation out there (where dragon kings still rule!?) or it's the Underworld or something equally bizarre.

 

[ghoti115]

I've actually been playing around with the idea in my head that Autochthon is actually the Creator and the Destroyer. I'm not sure if this is laid out anywhere in any of the books. Sorry, I haven't read them all.


His return to Creation is only to help the Neverborn get rid of it. The concept plays out in a similar method to the Lunar's "Thousand Streams River". Since he set it up and let it run it's course, Autochthon is now attempting to end this "experiment" because it is too taxing for him to maintain more than one "experiment" at a time. Once Creation is thrust into Oblivion (aka reabsorbed by Autochthon) he will be free to start the process over again. It expains why he is consuming the souls to "power" himself and also why he chose to leave creation and "rest" for a while.


Though it could be possible that he has multiple "experiments" running at once since time means nothing outside of Creation. But I might be going too far with that idea unless I want to have an alternate reality story line.


Please shoot this full of holes so I don't throw it at my players.

 

[LaFreeze]

That is sort of contradicted by the fact that in 1st edition is pretty clear should Autochthon be restored he wants to fix creation and we'll do so by making a new set of exalted, and thus except from the great curse, in an attempt to restore order and put the world back to right. If I recall correctly take up with Gaia as a lover (since Luna is obsessed with the game), causing creation to become a weird fission of organic and machine as the two begin to finally take a more active role in the governance of creation. Of course if she should die and rise as the never born "Engine of Destruction" well...........

 

[Arhra]

It is very interesting that everyone (even canon!) assumes that Gaia and Autochthon were not affected by the Great Curse.


Let's see, the Great Curse is all about its recipients being driven to intemperance, folly and madness, to the downfall of Creation. You know, like leaving Creation to rot while you ride the comet Gnosis off in the Faraway or hiding in the Void (okay, Elsewhere) to succumb to your robot cancer.


Hmmmmm.

I've actually been playing around with the idea in my head that Autochthon is actually the Creator and the Destroyer. I'm not sure if this is laid out anywhere in any of the books. Sorry, I haven't read them all.
His return to Creation is only to help the Neverborn get rid of it. The concept plays out in a similar method to the Lunar's "Thousand Streams River". Since he set it up and let it run it's course, Autochthon is now attempting to end this "experiment" because it is too taxing for him to maintain more than one "experiment" at a time. Once Creation is thrust into Oblivion (aka reabsorbed by Autochthon) he will be free to start the process over again. It expains why he is consuming the souls to "power" himself and also why he chose to leave creation and "rest" for a while.


Though it could be possible that he has multiple "experiments" running at once since time means nothing outside of Creation. But I might be going too far with that idea unless I want to have an alternate reality story line.


Please shoot this full of holes so I don't throw it at my players.

So how do the other Primordials fit into it?

 

[Captain Hesperus]

There is a point in the Wyld, at the end of a long series of Waypoints, within a nexus of geomantic power, where Creation can be reset to a saved reality prior to the Three Spheres Cataclysm.


Captain Hesperus

 

[ghoti115]

It is very interesting that everyone (even canon!) assumes that Gaia and Autochthon were not affected by the Great Curse.
Let's see, the Great Curse is all about its recipients being driven to intemperance, folly and madness, to the downfall of Creation. You know, like leaving Creation to rot while you ride the comet Gnosis off in the Faraway or hiding in the Void (okay, Elsewhere) to succumb to your robot cancer.


Hmmmmm.


So how do the other Primordials fit into it?

Actually, with your ideas of the Great Curse affecting Autochthon they play in very nicely. Especially with the item that LaFreeze pointed out from 1st Edition.

should Autochthon be restored he wants to fix creation

Which leads me to believe Autochthon is not fully himself because he was also cursed (I may be taking this quote out of context). The result the curse had on him was to place a new "destroy creation" function into his programming (may not be the best description, but when I think of Autochthon, I think in computer programer conmcepts). He found out that it was inserted, but he couldn't delete it without accessing the function, so he went into the Void and shut himself down to base functions to avoid using the new function. The Primordials did this to help with their progress toward ending Creation, but since Autochthon took himself out of the picture they needed a new plan. Then the Abyssals were created.


Of coruse, the way to fix him is to remove the program, which means a trip into the Void to visit the Great Maker and tinker with his code. When he is restored he will restore creation to it's former glory. If not, the Neverborn win and Creation is sent into Oblivion.

[QUOTE="Captain Hesperus]There is a point in the Wyld, at the end of a long series of Waypoints, within a nexus of geomantic power, where Creation can be reset to a saved reality prior to the Three Spheres Cataclysm.
Captain Hesperus

[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the laugh on this Monday morning! That was great, you've earned yourself a check on your character sheet. When you get three you can trade them in for bonus XP.

 

[LaFreeze]

This maybe just my impression but I think the general consensus is that Autochthon's cancer is indeed at least an indirect affect of the great curse. I personally prefer to speculate it isn't, because I think it opens up more story possibilities if it has a different and deeper cause but that is just my personal preference.


Far less has been said about Gaia so we're pretty much left to speculate about her withdrawal from affairs of the world, yet her mysterious absence from Games. As such while it is hard to really firmly conclude anything about Gaia being cursed I think we are free to speculate her withdraw could be related to the curse.