Players who won't go big

[Thanqol]

I would like to gently assert that this is a blatant lie. The hell you can't! I have a game that included all of that AND a Primordial ascension that still gives some of those players in Florida kneejerk reactions of terror and horror. It was a great game. Sure' date=' I was a burned out, soulless husk after all was said and done, but I was 17 and having a fucking ball doing it. Never again will I run something like, with as much ass pull as it had during the endgame, but man, it was fun. I agree with the focus, but you can totally kitchen-sink it. Hell, one battle toward the endgame was a sick re-creation of the Usurpation AND Underworld Apocalypse and part Reclaimation. It was all kinds of fun [i']and[/i] retarded. I've grown as a ST since, but I can't help but look back and laugh.

I agree! The first, and best, game I started to run was Kitchen Sink Exalted. It's ongoing, and my favourite game ever - but that's really because of the people. I have no illusions that the game's structure is straining at the seams and if I had my time again I'd cut 75% of the content and get a vastly superior game.


The point is, and seems you agree with me here, that while it can be done, you'll regret doing it. Especially if you don't know what you're getting into. Pick any antagonist group, two if you're feeling like hot stuff, and if you really want to later, build up from there. But really, assume everything is not happening unless you specifically decide to make it happen.

 

[Virjigorm]

I also like to include most of the background plots at the same time, and I don't think there's anything wrong with "Kitchen Sink Exalted". My strategy is just to space out the timelines and allow events in one area to change how things unfold in another. My PCs stopped the Lion's Apocalypse by helping the Autocthonians stabilize (read: conquer) the South. They had to sacrifice Gem, Paragon, and most of the small cities and villages of the South, but now that the Reclamation is on, they are super glad they have the Eight Nations backing them up.

 

[Tadanori Oyama]

I'm focusing on the threat of the Underworld at the moment, though the players have yet to even notice that there's a Deathlord gunning for them from across Creation. There's some extra threats around, a rogue Infernal hunting celestial exalted, Dragon Blooded armies threatening to attack each other, and a exiled fey who is currently tucked into one of the PC's hair.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

The Exiled Fae is most likely metaphorically drunk off those Exalt dreams and wild emotions. Seriously. He'll be needling that character's dreams like a crack addict. That and he'll be totally off his nutter when they discover that Fae is there. There's human emotion and then there's EXALTED emotion.


I suggest focus upon those Deathlords, that Infernal, and a little on the fae every so often.

 

[Tadanori Oyama]

That is more or less the situation at present. The player is actually keeping him a secret right now but that isn't going to hold for long.

 

[Teln]

Might be worth giving this a look.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Add more murder concerning the Fae, then profit! It's best to just lay the groundwork and watch the hilarity ensue. That happened when I just let an Abyssal who liked to make dolls loose in Nexus. The PCs spent most of the time dealing with clean up and what was left of the victims shambling toward them like puppets.

 

[Persell]

That happened when I just let an Abyssal who liked to make dolls loose in Nexus. The PCs spent most of the time dealing with clean up and what was left of the victims shambling toward them like puppets.

Stolen

 

[Tadanori Oyama]

Might be worth giving this a look.

I am totally going to have this happen down the line.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

That happened when I just let an Abyssal who liked to make dolls loose in Nexus. The PCs spent most of the time dealing with clean up and what was left of the victims shambling toward them like puppets.

Stolen

Read my fiction piece Hush on Lore5 for more on Cerannos the Dollmaker.

 

[Persell]

I'd read it before, but I'd forgotten that was the name of the Abyssal.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

That's just one of his names. He's fun to use as an NPC. Dangerous as all get out.

 

[Captain Hesperus]

I have a gang of Abyssal NPCs who are traipsing arounf the Hundred Kingdoms formenting war between the Mask of Winters and The Walker in Darkness. Their general trick is that one of the group turns up in an unsuspecting kingdom and instigates 'negotiations' with the neighbouring kingdoms. another Abyssal turns up at the start of the negotiations representing the other Deathlord, while a fourth acts as a member of the ostensibly neutral Mortician's Order of Sijan (he's got the robes and bracers and everything) and becomes the agreed chairman. In a nutshell, the two 'opposing' Abyssals gain support from local kingdoms they know to be antagonistic to each other, then ramp up the aggression by having one of the Deathlords' 'negotiators' assassinated (Ebon Shadow Style Charms). This leads to a break-down in the talks, then outright violence. The net result is that two clear factions form, one for each Deathlord. The negotiators then leave it to other Ghost-Blooded agents to incite the kingdoms to warfare against each other, pledging false support from their Deathlord 'allies'. The idea is that the various kingdoms will be encouraged to create alliances with friendly factions and then meet at a specific point chosen by the Ghost-Blooded for a massive war. The result of this war, as you can guess, will hopefully be the formation of a new Shadowland from which the Abyssals' real Deathlord will raise her citadel from the Underworld. As yet, the plan is only halfway to fruition.....


Captain Hesperus

 

[Tadanori Oyama]

Pretty impressive plan. Seems like the kind of thing that PCs could really wreck if their bright enough to catch on. I fear my players might completely miss what was going on.

 

[cyl]

I don't think it was suggested previously but... have you tried playing their virtues against them ?


In some situations, people with Virtue 3+ will suffer compulsions (which they can control through the use of wp), so you can slightly orient the game and play on those compulsions to make them realize that the virtues aren't there to give you bonus dice but also represent a significant commitment to certain ideals upon which they should act, whatever the circumstances.


It's a little more stick than carrot, I'll give you that, but if you play it with subtlelty, they'll fall for it and start taking steps and believing in their cause.

 

[Tadanori Oyama]

I did try it towards the beginning to get them motivated. Didn't work out very well because the player who walked into situations I thought required virtue rolls disagreed with me. She didn't argue with me about it but shifted to a less cooperative style which ended up having the reverse of the effect I wanted.


Really there's no way I can justify continuing to play with most of the people in this group. They don't respond to carrot or stick very well. Simplest way I could put it would be that they are 'bad players'. Its unfair and its also true. If I can't get them to respond to something than I'm going to have to either end the game or restart everything and try a different angle.

 

[cyl]

Well, if even talking to them from a meta game point of view has failed... you still have the option of continuing the game until one day one of them wakes up with a heroic call and starts something...

 

[wordman]

Really there's no way I can justify continuing to play with most of the people in this group. They don't respond to carrot or stick very well.

What did they say when you asked them directly why they won't go big?

 

[Ncolic]

Really there's no way I can justify continuing to play with most of the people in this group. They don't respond to carrot or stick very well.

What did they say when you asked them directly why they won't go big?

I believe he is Ebon Dragon at heart and have never considered using a direct approach to the problem

 

[Tadanori Oyama]

Actually, I hate to say it but looking back I have not outright asked them "Why don't you guys go big?" I've asked them what they might find most interesting, advised them on things to consider modeling themselves after, and asked how they would like to pursue their motivations but I've never really cut right to the quick.


I feel kind of incompetent.

 

[cyl]

Well don't... a too direct approach and you might have lost them there.


But since you've already talked subtly to them, now you can ask the big questions and shake them up a bit.


There's nothing too big for them, there are just challenges and hardship... nothing more.


The solars can do anything with time and the proper amount of preparations, so wether they want to follow your lead on an epic journey, or take the reins of the story and go realm building, the only thing that stands in their way is themselves (and either fear, lack of imagination or laziness... all of which can be dealt with).

 

[Persell]

I feel kind of incompetent.

Eh, I find feeling incompetent and trying to make up for it is about 70% of running a game.

 

[Tadanori Oyama]

Well next session (and the first one in about five weeks because of work schedule changes all around) is going to be monday. Pretty likely that none of them will even remember what was happening so this is probably a great chance to get everyone motivated again by throwing as much weight onto their shoulders as possible. Maybe making all of their choices, even the small ones, count for way more will encourage them to act boldly.