Permanent Damage via Called Shots

[Skari-dono]

Well, I just want to start by saying that I'm very new here (just joined within the last hour), am not really used to Exalted and only STd once last summer, only for few hours.  However, when I did ST there came the question of called shot.  In my previous games of Vampire and Werewolf I have allowed called shots with higher difficulty and extra damage which include chopping of one's head, thus killing him instantly.  But in Exalted, the system is more twisted.  I really can't add to the difficulty and give them extra dice for damage to kill strong opponents.  First off, it sounds like taking something away from them just to give it to them again.  Second, the system is specially made for long and dramatic fights against strong enemies (which is one of the parts I love the most).


This part of called shots isn't really discussed in the core book, only disarming your opponent, hitting small objects and so on.  Nothing about really damaging them with called shots.  That is why I came up with this system which I will present to you.  It is 'constructed' to do permanent (or longterm) and dramatic damage, such as losing your eye, arm or head.


Any suggestions and comments would be appreciated.


First, the shot is called.  What is it the PC intends to attack?  The difficulty should depend on what is attacked.  The difficulty is most often 2, but is 3 for smaller and more significant bodyparts (eyes, ears, testicles, etc.).  This isn't difficulty adjustment per se, but more of the PCs sacrificing successes for the sake of doing permanent damage.  Of course, this can be dodged and parried as normal.


Next, damage is rolled.  If the outcome would normally result in a Stun, permanent damage is done and the opponent is stunned normally due to the awesome damge inflicted.


Thirdly, the results is made clear.  If a limb was targeted, it can either be lost or damaged in such way that it can not be used normally again.  Lost legs can result in slower movement in example.  Targeted eyes will lose their perception.  This can be done either with higher difficulty on Perception rolls or loss in Perception rating (ie. from 3 to 2).  I suggest the former.


Cutting your opponent's head off will work differently.  It should always be difficulty 3 (exceptions might include extras) and to actually cut the head off, your opponent must lose all reamaining Health in this one hit.  Obviously, this is not easy, and surely it shouldn't.


Note that depending on the armor's design, these called shots can completely avoid the soak of your opponent's armour.


(Note to self:  Keep it shorter next time and practice my english)

 

[Flagg]

Exlated doesn't really have "called shots". Anything more descriptive than "I hit the bad guy with my sword" is a Stunt. Stunts garner extra dice. In the case of combat, those extra dice can parlay into extra successes, which adds extra damage.


I really don't think there needs to be anything more than that. It's a nice, simple system.


-S

 

[Skari-dono]

Exlated doesn't really have "called shots". Anything more descriptive than "I hit the bad guy with my sword" is a Stunt. Stunts garner extra dice. In the case of combat, those extra dice can parlay into extra successes, which adds extra damage.
I really don't think there needs to be anything more than that. It's a nice, simple system.


-S

I would like to point out page 238 in the core book.  At the bottom on the left side.  In my defence, it sure looks like it says 'called shots' to me.

 

[Flagg]

It does use the term "called shots", yes, but if you actually read the text, it explains that they don't offer any extra dice, damage, or any other game effect whatsoever. In other words, they're not a relevant game mechanic in Exalted.


Feel free to use your homebrew system. I was merely offering my thoughts on the matter.


-S

 

[Skari-dono]

Hmm... Seems like I missed that part.


But at any rate, 'I attack my opponent's eye' doesn't really make me want to give stunt bonus.  That is basically why I made this system.  The players I had weren't really the descriptive type of players.

 

[memesis]

Hmm... Seems like I missed that part.
But at any rate, 'I attack my opponent's eye' doesn't really make me want to give stunt bonus.  That is basically why I made this system.  The players I had weren't really the descriptive type of players.

If what gets them to be more descriptive is a better chance of dismembering their opponents, I hope you're running a grittier, less epic game, because that's what you'll end up with.


Instead of this, I would attack the root cause: the players aren't descriptive.  Find out why that is, and devise a solution.  Case in point: the players in my first campaign didn't really "get" Exalted until I said "okay, your PC is sitting in a restaurant on the second floor, and 50 guys come in..." - having just seen Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon as part of the group.


If that sort of realization, or something like it, is what they need, do that.  If called shots are actually the solution to the REAL issue, use them.

 

[Jakk Bey]

"Called shots" in Exalted are called Stunts.


In part, because of the participatory nature of the system, the players don't just react to the story, they are very much a part of it, along with their characters.


It's an outgrowth of the mechanics that were used for Adventure, and it was really the best thing about that system. The players could influence and rewrite the script as they went along--within a certain framework. Exalted gives the players a little less control than Adventure, but the players do have great opportunities to twist up the plot along with the Storyteller, and not just by the actions of the characters.  They can craft bits and pieces of it themselves.


They do this through Stunts.


Stunts aren't just for combat. Any action, from seducing a bar maid, cheating at cards, finding a book in a huge library, to tracking a deer or sneaking past an army can be Stunted.


By giving over the description of an event over the players, you give them license to be creative about the enviroment, and change up the story--more than just by rolling some dice. They make it more dynamic.  They create great moments, and it's not just the ST who is weaving the tale, but both sides of the table.


One of the things that I like about the system.


Your players want their characters to decapitate--or at least make a damn good attempt at it--then they need to describe the event. Make it their own.


Tiger Whispers siezes the moment, as the guard lowers his shield to guage Whisper's distance, only to see the flash of the sparks as the blade that passes through his throat crashes across the stones of the wall beside him, bathing his companions in the catarotid spray, hissing as the sparks fall into the pool widening at their feet...


Apple Cheeks runs her fingers down the nose of the thug whose purse, she'd grabbed, taking a moment to lick his nose as she allows him to take in the sight of her breasts as her robe parts ever so slightly. As his eyes widen, she breathes in, filling her chest, and as his eyes are drawn, all the breath in him crashes out, as forearm smashes his testicles, leaving him groaning in a pool of drool, she catches the purse as it falls, leaving the poor bastard the dubious honor of watching his hard earned cash walk away with the finest fanny waggle in the Realm, the pain mixed with that tiny pleasure, forming a python of pain and shame in his belly.


Much better than "I cut his head off." Or, "I hit him in the Jimmy!"


Reward them for their descriptions, and their participation, and you'll see them rise to the challenge--if you let them skate with ham handed examples, then that's what they'll give you.  


Show some HK action flicks in the background when you play. Show them great examples of Stunts--Warriors of Virtue has one of the best cooking Stunt scenes this side of God of Cookery by Steven Chow. Most action films have great Stunts in a big, showy way, but also for smooth talking, and scams.  


My advice is don't worry about Called Shots. Let them work it out in Stunts. If they want to try to blind a guard, then they'd better come up with a great stunt. If they want to leave a foe reeling from swollen testicles from the God Kicking Jimmy Boot, the let them have at it--but you don't need to do more than give them a few extra dice, and if they succeed in putting their foe down, let them have their description. If it's an Extra, they go blind--and their reputation goes downhill from that corner of the world. They do the mother of all Jimmy shots--then that's added to their infamy. If they're running into a Named character, then it might be a little different.  The Jimmy shot puts him down, but maybe he's not permanently blind--if he survives the encounter that is.


The key is to not to let them pull the same Stunt, over and over again. If they want to get a bonus, then they have to keep their material fresh.


Toss out your home brew for called shots, and address the real issue: getting your players involved.  They want more interesting a game, called shots aren't going to do more than appease their dice monkey skills. Engage their heads and their imaginations, and reward them for good descriptions.


And make sure that you reward them for Stunting actions outside of combat as well.  Larceny is tailor made for Stunts.  Survival is tailor made for Stunts. Even Bureacracy can be a great deal of fun with some good Stunting. Let the players' imagination loose, and then reap the benifit, because it helps spur you along as well.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

The only real called-shot effects in Exalted are via charms. If your players really want to inflict lasting effects on their opponents, have them write charms to that effect.


 Otherwise, it comes across like a potentially twinky way of knocking out your opponent early (via bypassing armor soak, cutting off an arm so they can't continue to fight, etc.).

 

[Skari-dono]

The only real called-shot effects in Exalted are via charms. If your players really want to inflict lasting effects on their opponents' date=' have them write charms to that effect.[/quote']
But if you cut the eye off an extra, the doctor doesn't really say 'Gee, Bob, don't worry about it, it will heal in a matter of days'.   Can't really see how a Charm is needed to do that.


As for the long description of the stunt bonus thing, I know most about it.  That is, I know how to use it.  But if someone constantly tries to cut off the arms of the opponents, it stops being a stunt really.  When that happens, I would prefer knowing how to deal with those things rather than spend few minutes of thinking and finally say 'sorry, your blow automatically misses'.


Are you all suggesting that if they can't make it into a stunt they can't do it?

 

[Jakk Bey]

What you do is you don't give them any extra dice. They make their attack as normal. If it succeeds in killing the Extra, you give them the arterial spray that they were looking for, but don't give them any extra dice to do it.


Because it's old hat. It's running into video game-itus for a pre-programmed move, and that is what Exalted isnt about. And you explain to your playes why they aren't going to get any extra dice for it--be up front about it. Explain that the system is supposed to be dynamic, creative. That this their chance to shine, and they're sleepwalking through it.


If they want the pre-programmed finishing move--then maybe sitting down with Mortal Combat, Soul Caliber, Dynasty Warriors, or Onimusha is what they're looking for.


If your players are more about the pre-programmed sort of thing, then D&D might be a better way to go. The Eberron setting has some great High Fantasy and Dark and Gritty elements that make it a great setting, and that might be more their style.


If the PC's are doing the same dang thing, over and over again, you can justify why they're not getting those extra dice, in game, beyond the ST ruling that they're becoming tired and lame, that their opponenets have heard of their penchant for dismemberment, and are being careful.


Kind of like a boxer who telegraphs his style.  His opponennts, even those with lesser skill perhaps, can read it, and take appropriate measures, even use that against him.  Fella that goes after knockouts every time can get his butt handed to him by a fella who keeps his distance, plays the combinations, and uses solid footwork--just the same as a distance jabber can find himself with a world of hurt when someone just covers up and rolls in and keeps in close and tight.  Their enemies are going to hear about this arm taking fetish, and suddenly, they're going to be a lot more bucklers and shields used.


It means that the ST has to make the call. Do you want to have the same boring fights, all the time, and make your game like and action video game, with the characters pulling off the same moves, all the time--if that's the case, then have at regularizing this sort of play and implement the mechanic--or do you want Games of High Adventure and cinematic swashbuckling and derring do?  


You can implement this sort of rules set to Exalted, or you can play another game that already has the rules set into place, and takes that style of play into account. Exalted isn't for everyone, and if it's not in your players' nature to get descriptive, to get involved, then perhaps a change of game is in order. Again, Eberron is a great D&D setting--and there's no shame in realizing that your group isn't right for a game.


Had a buddy who wanted us all to get into Over the Edge--and none of us liked the damn system in the least. Hated it with a passion.  This is the same fella who wanted us all to get into Amber and again, the loosey-goosey and lackadaisical approach to rules and structure didn't appeal. It might have also been that Tony was a lousy GM too, but the systems themselves didn't appeal on top of that. So, we went back to systems that we liked.  It's good to stretch sometimes, and try new things, but if your players aren't into the system, for whatever reason, then it may be time to find a new game.

 

[Flagg]

When that happens, I would prefer knowing how to deal with those things rather than spend few minutes of thinking and finally say 'sorry, your blow automatically misses'.
Are you all suggesting that if they can't make it into a stunt they can't do it?

Just interpret the dice. If the player tries to cleave off a limb, and only deals 1 level of damage, then they've obviosuly failed. If they deal 3 levels, that means the limb probably came clean off.


Think about it.


-S

 

[Arthemis Rex]

using called shots against the characters is a good tactic if one of the players starts to get out of hand with it-


if your players pop one too many heads I reccomend taking their hand or foot- possibly an eye


theyll have to decide later wether theyre going to try and find someone to regrow the lost part or if theyre going to kick it Pirate Style with the hook, eyepatch or pegleg for the rest of the game hehe


incedentally a lost limb or eye can be a great opportunity for an artifact- a crystal implant that allows you to see the tapestry, or a super arm- this is really cool for you blackmiths who have a big arm anyway

 

[Forn Clakes]

If the PC's are doing the same dang thing' date=' over and over again, you can justify why they're not getting those extra dice, in game, beyond the ST ruling that they're becoming tired and lame, that their opponenets have [i']heard[/i] of their penchant for dismemberment, and are being careful.

I quite agree with this.  It reminds me of the film Troy and the battle between Achilles and...the other one...Hector, that's it! (Sorry, moment of memory lapse, please allow me to continue.)


Basically, its when Achilles goes straight for, what i view as, his sig move, the big jump and downward stab, and if i remember correctly Hector defends against it sucessfully three times.  Its at this point when Achilles steps up his attacks and the results are astonishing, and IMO, makes for a brilliant fight scene, full of twists and turns that all Exalted combat scenes could aspire to.


~FC.

 

[wordman]

A couple of minor points:


There is a box on page 238 labelled "Called Shots and Extra Damage" which explains why Exalted mechanics don't provide extra damage on called shots. (Basically, it's assumed that the attacker is always trying to do as much damage as possible).


Secondly, a character interested in removing limbs should learn the Abyssal charm Artful Maiming Onslaught (Abyssals, pg 166). The existance of this charm should tell you a lot about the intent of the standard combat rules, as well.

 

[Obsidian Soul]

In general, I allow called shots to maim characters.  I run it like this.  The character announces their target, they suffer a +1 to +5 to difficulty to hit, depending on the size of the target, and if they do enough lethal damage, depending on the size of the target, they maim them and the target suffers the maiming and takes only enough lethal damage to maim to area (bashing damage temporarily disables instead of maiming).

 

[Persell]

Obsidian Soul's rule is in line with the text on stunts and the impossible, which points out that you can use stunts do do things that Charms would let you (ie Artful Maiming Onslaught) with hefty difficulty penalties.


And if they keep doing it monotonously, *poof*. No more stunt-dice; no more limb-hacking.

 

[Kajata]

I'd allow people to remove limbs and such, they simply have to say they do it and get an adaquate damage roll.  If one of my players says he's gonna spin around, lash out with his daiklave and cleave off the arm of the Dragon-Blooded standing behind him, I might give him a +1 stunt bonus (I stress might ) or not, but regardless, it all comes down to the damage roll.


If the limb removing is nothing more than flavour text to make an attack more interesting (ie. a character wants a stunt and decides he's going to remove an arm, because it would look cool) then I wouldn't use any special rules; you just see if he gets enough damage, as aforementioned, 3L or so, and pop, the arm comes off, but really creates no other effect with regards to mechanics (they're ALREADY going to have a -1 penalty at LEAST, we don't need to impose any more "no-hand" penalties on them... that's the idea of the wound penalties).


On the other hand, if the limb removing is serving a purpose, such as to make a character drop a powerful artifact or to make him unhand a girl he's grabbed, then I'd follow the rules in the abyssal book in the Artful Maiming Onslaught charm, but with a penalty depending on the size of the body part to be removed.  I'd also note that you shouldn't be able to do more damage than intended when making this kind of manuever.   If you're chopping off an arm, the most damage you should be able to do is 3L, because the most that can happen is that the arm comes off.


If you're using a targeted attack as a quick kill; ie. the focus for the maneuver is simply to do more damage/kill the opponent faster than I'd say it's just a normal stunt and whether you kill him or not is reflected in the bonus dice added to the role.