Oliphem

[Coyotekin]

Well, since it took a Solar to damage him with Charms, then it would take another Solar to repair him with Charms.  After all, it would be akin to a Dragon Blooded being able to maintain and mend a 1st Age artifact instead of trying to create one from scratch.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

After all, it would be akin to a Dragon Blooded being able to maintain and mend a 1st Age artifact instead of trying to create one from scratch.

Considering they can do such, that's not too great a comparisson. Skywolf, Lookshy's flagship was created in the current Age. Both the Realm and Lookshy manufacture warstriders, though only Common and Scout. The main weakness they have is not what they can make, but lack of ability to take the materials out of their ass. Mass production is more the problem than creation alone. The Solar can walk into the Wyld and say, 'I need the spleens of 10,000 virgin, left handed, red headed midgets and the heart of an Englishman,' and they can get it easilly. The Dragonblooded (or Lunar or Sidereal, or whatever, for that matter) has to actually aquire the components the hard way, which can often be extremely difficult, particullarly in large amounts. They also have to go through the creation process as outlined in the books without the aid of Solar crafting charms. Further, only Lunars have a similar charm to the one which allows Solars to lower the requirements for crafting difficult items, and they can only take it once, applying it only to Moonsilver. Yes, Solars are the rulers of Craft, but the other Exalts, Dragonblooded included, can craft some amazing things, including many potent wonders. Finding the time to do so, and the components needed is a greater challenge often than actually doing the crafting itself, needs which Solars can bypass significantly.


As for what can fix Oliphem, that would depend on whether you consider it more an object, or a being. If an object, there are a number of charms that can fix its eye as written, as might the spell Incantation of Effective Restoration, if one could actually lift Oliphem. If a being, anything which can remove crippling effects would likely work.

 

[Arthur]

any takers?

I personally believe that Lilith wouldn't really let him die. She is bound to  him. In some 1e tales, when she finally meets him, she lets him live.

 

[Zaramis]

You can't just repair him with a simple solar charm, in my mind. The damage is not just a crack in some kind of crystal, but you probably have to understand how that crystal connects to the rest of him etc. There's a reason most N/A artifacts and ancient wonders require insane levels of Craft ( Magitech ) etc to repair and operate, I don't see why this would be different?


But maybe I just hate simple solutions along the lines of Solars-are-teh-hawtest-and-the-saviours-of-everything ( it's how I see them being treated in a lot of places, at least )


Simply removing crippling effects or just repairing it through a charm would be removing a really cool plot that should take a major campaign for it to lead up to the restoration of such an ancient being.

 

[Coyotekin]

It states in the books that a Solar could fix his lense, assuming Oliphem would trust another Solar ever again to let him/her do it.

 

[tjcoonrod]

Well, I am curious if the rules in Wonders of the Lost Age would support me here, but I believe *if* Oliphem was an automaton, you would need some levels of craft to fix his lense, if he was biological, then it'd be medicine. Probably I believe that it'd be difficult enough that a starting out twilight probably wouldn't be able to do it, at least until he got a couple of the craft charms and the charm that reduces the LORE/OCCULT/CRAFT requirements as well. But with a bit of work, it could be done relatively easy.


Curious as to why nobody bothered to fix him after Desus cracked his lense. My guess is that the Solars just got annoyed that he wouldn't favor them for the lintha, and in petty vindictiveness, left him blind. Aren't those 1st age Solars soooooo nice? lol!

 

[Zaramis]

Of course a Solar could fix him, with high enough skills and specialized in the Magitech / Biology whatever Oliphem really is, like tjcoonrod said. By just having some Craft ( Air ) or something like it and then some charms to go with that would just be silly, at least in my view.

 

[FluffySquirrel]

For a start, it -is- a craft 5, essence 3 charm. Just because it's not at the end of a massive tree (massive tree which just doesn't -exist- in craft), doesn't alter the fact it can still be a very powerful charm.


Why do you think solars coming back has reshaped the world so much? Even stuff they can conceivably learn in a few years can do things others easily can't.


Also, every other part of Oliphem is completely invulnerable to harm except his lense, so I can't really see -any- issue in just fixing the lens and him being fine. Other than involving a metagame sense of drama, it simply isn't needed. Unless you -want- your players to go on an epic quest spanning two years, to fetch Mr Magoo a new pair of glasses


Then you have to get Chejop's slippers

 

[Zaramis]

It doesn't have to be over-complicated or silly for it to be more epic than "Use Charm". I think charms should be complements to the adventure, not adventure-solvers in themselves. Just a philosophy I guess. Either that, or the charm and solution might be simple, but getting there, finding out just how to apply it, etc, could be interesting.


And I haven't really seen solars reshape the world, much. The bull of the north has conquered some areas. Apart from that, none of the solars have really made a lasting impact on the world that is worthy of mention in the core book. Yet. Of course, they will, in due time, until they go batshit crazy and the Deathlords take over.. or something.


And speaking about powerful charms, I don't see how the Solars win against a single wyld-hunt as long as we use the charms as written. Essence-Disruption Method for the win Most overpowered charm ever to exist. Joking aside, I understand your point. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it, just as I wouldn't let a Solar walk up to some other N/A wonder and just restore it in an instant. They are unique and epic for a reason, the pinnacle of what Solars / or more powerful things still could do in the first age.

 

[Coyotekin]

Zaramis,


The Solars would have to be able to get close enough to Oliphem just to speak to him first. And the would be next to impossible when he knew that they were Solars in the first place.


Even after getting to talk to him they would then have to get into his trust. That would be nothing less than Epic. ANd who knows what quests in the West he would have tasked for them. Many of them would have to be getting the oceans back into order or some such, aka cleaning up the mess their fellow Solar made by hindering, if not destroying, his ability to do his job.


After that the subject could possibly be truly spoken about concerning his lense without inciting insane levels of rage.


I could go on and on about it, but I think it would take much more than just a Solar walking up and using a Charm. That's what ST'ing is all about.

 

[Zaramis]

Then we are agreed, I suppose.

 

[tjcoonrod]

Unless you -want- your players to go on an epic quest spanning two years, to fetch Mr Magoo a new pair of glasses
Then you have to get Chejop's slippers

xD

 

[Coyotekin]

Or chances are that Chejop took Oliphem's glasses because he was getting too damned old and needed to see better after his eyes started to fail.


I think I'd rather take the 2 year Epic Quest than go messing with Chejop though.

 

[FluffySquirrel]

Part of the reason I'm against this, is because by disallowing a player use of that charm on Oliphem, you've just completely negated the entire point of the charm. This is basically the equivalent of telling a solar fighter that his HGD doesn't work.


Seriously.. there aren't many solar craft charms.. and that's one of the few times you'd likely -use- that charm... if you wanted to make an epic story about it.. you'd do that with them trying to convince Oliphem to -let- them fix it, which would be hard as hell. But there's no reason to explicitly disallow use of a perfectly fine charm from doing it's job. Charms are -meant- to make things easier, kinda what they're for you know? Especially if the player has actually bothered buying them.

 

[Zaramis]

I already admitted defeat. If you make the rest of the plot epic enough I see no troubles with using the charm to fix him. I was mainly against the idea of things being easier to fix than they are to break. It doesn't fit with the epic story, to me, personally.

 

[Coyotekin]

Ah, thank you Zaramis, I had no idea who the hell Squirrel was ranting against, or what the hell prompted the rant in the first place. I had to sift through the thread up the page a ways just to figure it out. And this is why we use quotes.

 

[FluffySquirrel]

I wasn't trying to rant.. though sorry if I did... and I wasn't replying to any specific comment.. hence me not quoting, was just trying to say -why- I felt the way I did

 

[Coyotekin]

Ranting is not exactly a bad thing.