[Nightmares of the Second Age] The Daily Scribe

...who can nonetheless father or give birth to human children. And if you're capable of pretending to be a person -- not "human", but "a person" -- doesn't that make you a person?


We're heading into Battlestar Galactica territory...
 
The ability to produce children is a poor milestone to measure what constitutes a "person". By that line of reasoning, any sufficiently advanced incubation technology would qualify. Then again, the definition I use to define what qualifies for a "human" would exclude pretty much all of the Exalted, so make of that what you will.
 
Ah. While I use "sapience" and "personhood" relatively interchangeably. And humanity and personhood are not the same thing.


Hey...if Exalts aren't human, they shouldn't throw stones, eh? ;)
 
Exalts are to humans what humans are to monkeys. They (we) are sufficiently above us (them) that any meaningful distinction is superficial at best. If you are superhuman like the Exalted, you are above human, and you cannot be above human and be human at the same time.


In many respects however, I define the raksha as sub-human in that they can't make real choices for themselves. They may make some semblance of free will, but they are ultimately bound by the narrative energies of the Wyld. In the same vein, most Gods, Spirits, Yozi, Demons, and the undead like the Neverborn and the Deathlords would be sub-human.


This is why I and all of my characters will have no qualms with killing them should the situation demand it. They may possess great power, but their personalities may as well be highly advanced AI programs designed to mimic us, and are ultimately bound by their own natures and are incapable of defying their patterns for long without consequence.
 
While Skadi would argue that just as dwellers in the Wyld are bound by narrative, dwellers in Creation are bound by fate, and both are bound by their own natures. Also, since Creation and all within it were created by beings who were originally Wyld dwellers, does that make humans more or less real?
 
Baseline humans and Terrestrial Exalted are bound by fate, yes. Celestial Exalted however write their own fate. In the case of the Sidereals, this is quite literal.


ADDENDUM: As above, baseline humans and Terrestrial Exalted could be defined as "less real" than Celestial Exalted in the sense that they are bound by fate, yes. Celestial Exalted are as stated, beyond such distinctions.
 
And this is where it gets tricky. Because now we're assigning different levels of "reality" to classes of individual and deciding whether they're people or not based on how "real" they are...which is venturing into Arczechi territory.


Fae and the Wyldest of Wyld barbarians are "not real" because they're bound by narrative. Baseline humans and Terrestrial Exalted are "less real" because they're bound by fate. Only Celestial Exalted are "real people"...and now we're venturing into crazy First Age Solar territory.


My instinct is to treat humans, gods, faeries and any machine bright enough to pass Creation's equivalent of a Turing test as a person. That doesn't mean I expect human morality from all of them...although many of the things prescribed by the Immaculate Philosophy seem quite immoral by 21st Century American standards (though not by the standards of a few hundred years ago) and most of its followers are human enough.


Skadi's instincts are the same, largely due to having been born and raised among "unreal" people while being told that she was the one who was not real, and merely a sophisticated entertainment program created by the Primordials. After entering Creation, losing her original Graces and receiving an Exaltation, she had to find her own middle ground or go insane.
 
Ah. a clarification, as I was addressing two different issues.


What is defined as "real" in the gameworld of Exalted seems to be (as far as I can tell) the ability to perpetuate your own existence. The Primordials are "real" because they can do that, as can most gods, spirits, Deathlords, etc etc. They are not "people" because they cannot act outside their own natures for long. Humans and Terrestrials are "not real" because they cannot perpetuate their own existence, and are subject to external forces beyond their control or comprehension.


However humans and all the exalted are "people" in that they can make their own choices and are unbound by any set nature. Humans and exalted can become horrible monsters or paragons of righteousness as they chose, the other supernatural forces out there cannot.


So, humans are "less real" because they cannot perpetuate their own existence, but they are "people" because they can make their own choices. The Celestial Exalted are both "real" because they can perpetuate their own existence and they are "people" because they can make their own choices.


Moral of this discussion: Exalted has weird metamechanics.
 
No, Celestial Exalted are real and are people because they can make their own choices and perpetuate their own existence.


Humans and Terrestrial Exalted are people because they can make their own choices, but are not as real as the Celestials because they cannot perpetuate their own existence.


Certain supernatural forces are real because they can perpetuate their own existence, but are none of them people because they cannot fully make their own choices.
 
I have come to the conclusion the alert system only alerts you of things that you have visited in the pass 12(?) hours of so. So every morning I wake up and make sure I have at least clicked the active threads I'm in even if there is a post there or not.
 
And Skadi's response, I imagine, would be something along the lines of: "Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content." ;)
 
I have to imagine they did, given that Blossom gave out something that seemed like the UV access codes. Though Sherwood never did say if it really did happen...
 
No. NO! No love for you! Ha! Ok, fine, you win. I'll give you some love. <smooch!> There, feel better?


Seriously, I'll put something up for you in a bit. :cool:
 
No pressure, all this talk of updates being missed made me think it had happened to you as well. Just wanted to make sure you were up to speed. :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 5 (members: 0, guests: 5)
Back
Top