[Nightmares of the Second Age] The Daily Scribe

Feantari said:
This.
That last bit refers to the special character boosting the unit stats based on his or her stats (Close Combat Rating).


That is not what is being discussed in the earlier highlighted passage.
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No, they're not... They do nothing to the unit stats. They make an attack in place of the unit commander, benefiting from the unit's CCR bonus as would the leader. If they didn't why would they include "using her trait rather than the unit leader’s" ?


In mass combat, a commander wears his/her unit. If the hero is making an attack in place of the unit leader (using her trait rather than the unit leader’s), then the hero is wearing the unit. There's nothing unclear about that.


Then why would it say that you have the option to act as a Solo Unit? This is where its unclear. If you're a acting as a solo unit, do you still benefit from the Unit Commander? I could see the argument for it, and I certainly wouldn't mind a houserule for that if not if it'll solve this whole debacle.
 
[QUOTE="MaHaSuchi's700]Emphasis mine. You can act in place of the unit leader, say if you're an Exalted hero in a mortal commander's unit - you're obviously stronger than him, so he does the stragterizing (ahem, technical term) and you do the killing. However, in a different circumstance, you're an Exalted hero in an Elder Exalt commander's unit, and he'd rather be getting up and personal with them himself. So you have two options: you can breakaway with some of the unit, commanding it yourself or letting a subofficer command it while you do the killy bits; or, you can stay with the unit and act as a solo unit, 'cause no Exalted Commander ain't gonna ever hold down a strong independent Hero like yourself.

[/QUOTE]
This is rather a large misunderstanding of how exalted mass combat works and I will try to explain, but I have had a headache literally all day so if something doesn't make sense let me know.


The commander in exalted mass combat is not doing anything of note on a personal scale. That's why you have war charms and excellencies. You are using those to boost your unit. (unit commander typically rolls charisma + war for attacks)


Special characters exist to reflect outstanding warriors that offer something more than the rank and file. In the case of a hero special character they can serve in a number of ways. They can simply boost the Close Combat Rating of the unit which reflects their awesomeness in a more even and abstracted way.


They can alternately make attacks against enemy units while remaining part of your unit. This would be the example of an exalted hero using sweet charms to dish out damage. Now, that damage is likely still going to be less than the overall unit with the exception of large AoE attacks or spells, but its damage and it lets non-leader fighters do something useful and fun in battle. In this case the special character uses their abilities limited by the commander they are serving under's war rating.


Lastly, they can break away from the unit and form their own solo unit. In this case the character is no longer acting as part of a cohesive fighting force and must rely on his own understanding of mass combat (aka he is limited by his war rating).
 
MrSerious said:
Pulls out a box of popcorn
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Hehe, not like that. Just trying to be helpful. I think we should be pretty good because we have two good commanders and should have plenty of special character slots to play with.
 
Feantari said:
The commander in exalted mass combat is not doing anything of note on a personal scale. That's why you have war charms and excellencies. You are using those to boost your unit. (unit commander typically rolls charisma + war for attacks).
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This is a complete falsification. War is not a combat ability in Mass Combat. It limits combat abilities and it is used for attempting maneuvers, rallying, and other Mass Combat actions that do not inflict damage to enemy units. I'm not going to go ahead and quote the entirety of page 166 for you, but you should go take a look at it. No where in that section does it say "Attacks are made with the War ability" or something similar. Attacks proceed as they normally would - they're simply boosted by your unit's CCR and other stats, and ability dice (as well as unit CR bonuses) are capped by War.

Feantari said:
Special characters exist to reflect outstanding warriors that offer something more than the rank and file. In the case of a hero special character they can serve in a number of ways. They can simply boost the Close Combat Rating of the unit which reflects their awesomeness in a more even and abstracted way.
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And how do they boost the CCR? Aside from making the unit's average (Dex + ability) rating marginally higher, which has a notably lesser effect the larger the unit becomes, they do nothing. Their Charms? Squat. Gear? Squat. None of it matters in terms of CCR if the majority of the unit itself isn't equipped equivalent gear/abilities.

Feantari said:
They can alternately make attacks against enemy units while remaining part of your unit. This would be the example of an exalted hero using sweet charms to dish out damage. Now, that damage is likely still going to be less than the overall unit with the exception of large AoE attacks or spells, but its damage and it lets non-leader fighters do something useful and fun in battle. In this case the special character uses their abilities limited by the commander they are serving under's war rating.
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This I can agree with. Previously, I'd thought that if they attacked as solo units who are still technically part of the unit (which is basically what you're describing) that they wouldn't benefit from the commander's War rating. This admittedly makes less sense the more I look at it, since they're still technically part of the unit.

Feantari said:
Lastly, they can break away from the unit and form their own solo unit. In this case the character is no longer acting as part of a cohesive fighting force and must rely on his own understanding of mass combat (aka he is limited by his war rating).
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No qualms here.


So, my initial interpretation of that was wrong regarding Tiger and the War cap deal. I'm glad we cleared that up.
 
[QUOTE="MaHaSuchi's700]This is a complete falsification. War is not a combat ability in Mass Combat. It limits combat abilities and it is used for attempting maneuvers, rallying, and other Mass Combat actions that do not inflict damage to enemy units. I'm not going to go ahead and quote the entirety of page 166 for you, but you should go take a look at it. No where in that section does it say "Attacks are made with the War ability" or something similar. Attacks proceed as they normally would - they're simply boosted by your unit's CCR and other stats, and ability dice (as well as unit CR bonuses) are capped by War.

[/QUOTE]
Ah, been using a custom thing too long in another game for that part sry sry.

[QUOTE="MaHaSuchi's700]And how do they boost the CCR? Aside from making the unit's average (Dex + ability) rating marginally higher, which has a notably lesser effect the larger the unit becomes, they do nothing. Their Charms? Squat. Gear? Squat. None of it matters in terms of CCR if the majority of the unit itself isn't equipped equivalent gear/abilities.

[/QUOTE]
I *think* but have never seen implemented.. that they mean swapping their stats into the CCR calc instead of the unit average. But that seems pretty crazy so idk. You'd end up not really caring about certain abilities of your troops were that the case. I can poke at it more tomorrow if we care.

[QUOTE="MaHaSuchi's700]This I can agree with. Previously, I'd thought that if they attacked as solo units who are still technically part of the unit (which is basically what you're describing) that they wouldn't benefit from the commander's War rating. This admittedly makes less sense the more I look at it, since they're still technically part of the unit.

[/QUOTE]
Yeah, if it didn't work this way everyone would have to be an awesome commander or just sit back and let themselves be abstracted, which is rather unlike exalted. :-P
 
Battlefield as Bar Approach


Cost: 5m, 1wp


Mins: Martial Arts 6, Essence 6


Type: Reflexive


Keywords: Combo-OK, Merged (Melee, Archery, Thrown, Dodge)


Duration: One Scene


Prerequisite: None





Having fought dozens of men in the streets with naught bit his fists, the Solar brawler has little trouble fighting hundreds of men in the field of battle. When a Solar joins battle as a Solo Unit, his abilities are no longer capped by his War rating. Instead he may substitute his highest combat ability for War, as the Solar's experience in tactical engagements enables him to extrapolate the flow of battle in a strategic setting. Note that this charm only functions if the character is on his own. Joining a mass combat unit ends the charm prematurely.
 
I am still with mahasuchi on not being able to sub one skill for the other sorry.


I think at this point Sherwood needs to step in and declare with GM fiat what it's goin to be (now that we have had our discussion)
 
Not only does it have no prerequisites, but its Reflexive, Scene-long, and only costs 5m 1wp to ignore by fiat an important game mechanic of an entire facet of combat.


No. Just, no. I hate to be a dick about these kinds of things, so I'm sorry if I'm coming off like that. But no.


Sherwood? Boss man?


EDIT: Feantari, that certainly explains things. Cha + War for attacks is an interesting way of trying to make the ability more useful. I'm kind of partial to the current system, but I'm curious about it. Have you used this houserule in mass combats before? How'd it work for you?


As far as CCR goes, that seems really wonky. I can kind see what you're saying, but the way we always did it in my IRL groups was that the hero/s0rcer0r could take over an attack for the unit's action while the commander simply gave orders and such. The hero could rally (Cha + Per) if the commander allowed it, otherwise the commander still did that sort of thing - if the hero did do that sort of thing, he or she was temporarily taking command of the unit. Now I've never ST'd, so these were their interpretations, which could of course be wrong. I'm fairly certain they were correct, but who knows.
 
We already cleared that up man - you don't have to waste XP on War. Basically, you sit in the unit as a Special Character, and when your action comes up you act as a Solo Unit but are still part of the unit. Thus, you benefit from the Commander's War rating. It was my misunderstanding, sorry.


Argh sorry to cause all this strife. :/
 
JayTee said:
Unless said commander has War 6 and later War 7, I'm going to be wasting my xp.
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We have one commander with 6 and one with 5. Really.. its one die.


Now, if you just want to be the crazy guy that runs around solo in mass combat then by all means. :)
 
We have our first rules squabble when I' asleep too :-(


Heroes don't need War for making potshots or challenges. You only need it if you are a commander (though even as a solo unit).
 
Sherwood said:
I was waiting to post anything about the Fae until you guys stepped up to do it. Whatever posts you make in regards to contacting them will take place during the week.
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What exactly are you looking for?


What has already been stated is that Rose, Tiger and Jingfei (Rose's faerie companion) will approach the other tower in order to form an alliance with them.


On a related note, how powerful Wyld zones are near the dragons' tower, and can we heard an approaching army through one or more of them?
 
@JT, alternatively, you could pick up Retainers and grab a dragonblooded diciple with Leading From Below (Thousand Correct Actions page 81). I know you said that hangarounds were against your concept, but so it seems to me is having a lot of dots in War.


Edit: is would have to be done retroactiely and with ST approval of course, but since it stems from an oversight, I think it would be fair.


Alternatively alternatively, of any of current generals have DB retainers with said charm, they could lend them to Tiger. Rose's, sadly, is a valet and bodyguard rather than an officer.


Edit2: actually, Rose faces the same problem in MC, so it would make sense for her bodyguard to pick up that charm. You could borrow him I suppose, depending on what Rose's job in defeating the army is.
 
JayTee said:
Unless said commander has War 6 and later War 7, I'm going to be wasting my xp.
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Storm's got your War 6, but it'll be a while until he gets War 7.


I also suggest you ignore E7 unless there's a charm you absolutely can't live without. There are TONS of amazing E6 and lower Charms. At the very least, I'd suggest Tiger gets Snake or Tiger (sic) Style ASAP. Both will give you a lot of extra combat options that you wouldn't normally have without dipping into other ability trees - Counterattacks, for example. I think there might be one or two later in the SHS expansion Charms, but none of them compare with Snake Strikes the Heel for example. Tiger Style's pinnacle Charm is all sorts of ridiculousness. There are plenty of SHS expansion Charms that are awesome too, like Stunning Deathblow Evasion, Sun-Suffusing Slag and Lightning Strikes Twice. If you want it just for the Essence pool increase, I can get behind that, but realize that means 6 months of you meditating while we could be doing a lot more productive things.


Seriously, unless you're that set on Tiger fighting as a solo unit without being part of a unit, you probably are wasting your XP. I mean, if you're dead set on it then by all means get it.

Esbilon said:
@JT, alternatively, you could pick up Retainers and grab a dragonblooded diciple with Leading From Below (Thousand Correct Actions page 81). I know you said that hangarounds were against your concept, but so it seems to me is having a lot of dots in War.
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This is actually a really good idea for anyone in general who lacks War 5+.
 
So...while we're waiting on...things, maybe you can help me brainstorm.


One of Skadi's hideouts is in her old territory in the Northwest. (Or near it, as most of Silver Meadows Province now resembles the Gobi Desert.)


One is in the Far North.


One is hovering above an unspecified mountain range, and one is...?
 
I need to finish my manse before we start using it. I can't come up with a Hearthstone, or I could sacrifice all 5 hearthstone levels for more powerz (I have 1 creation point left over to make 6 to spend)
 
Here you go.

Everyone knows of the three Pyramids of Rathess and the functions they serve, but no one has yet discovered the fourth. It sits six miles north of the Great Pyramid, in the same dimensions of the Rising Sun and Setting Sun. Thanks to its' cloaked nature, its' outer coating of orichalcum has not been looted and when the Power is deactivated it almost glows in the light of the Unconquered Sun, to whom the building is a temple. The topmost quarter of the Pyramid peels back to let the Sun in, focused through a series of channels and carefully ground essence lenses driving the furnaces of the Factory Cathedral. The Manse extends underneath the surface of Rathess to 4 levels, providing his personal quarters. To keep the external aesthetic of his Magnus Opus Copper Ryu made the entrance to the complex seamless, requiring a Perception+Awareness check of difficulty 4. If a failed attempt is made to force ones' way past the Essence lock (Intelligence+Larceny, diff 5 to succeed), an Ultra Deadly Trap is activated. Anyone without a perfect defense is slain on the spot.


Copper Ryus factory cathedral, workshop and home all rolled into one. His dedication to the Craft and to having the most impressive Manse of his peers caused him to direct all his energies and genius in designing this singular Manse as the peak of his abilities. Of course such a massive undertaking (indeed construction took a full century) was also done with his Dragon Blooded assistants who served him for the shared glory and with his limited social-fu.


Before entering stasis, Copper Ryu took careful steps to close down the Manse powers except for Greater Veil of Shadows, lest it suffer Power Failure without its' required seasonal maintenance. When fully powered, One Mind Within bends all occupants to the maintenance and operation of the Factory Cathedral. Using Ability Enlightenment it can provide even aid in the crafting process, adding its' successes in Magitech to whatever endeavours the factory has been set to.


Creation Points: 24

  • Standard Points: 10
  • Design Beyond Limit +10
  • Maintenance +4


Rating 5 Power(s)


Factory Cathedral


One Mind Within


Rating 4 Power(s)


Greater Veil Of Shadows


Rating 3 Power(s)


Ultra Deadly Traps


Ability Enlightenment (Craft(Magitech) 4) (Solar Aspected)


Rating 1 Power


Magical Conveniences


Self Destruct Sequence


Well Flavored Aspect
 
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