Multiple GMs

[White Masquerade]

Hey all, I wanted to know, has anyone ever seen or been a part of a role-play where there were multiple GMs? Not multiple GMs working together, but a system where one GM would handle the story for a few events, then rotate with another GM to follow it up with more plot. It would be a line of GMs that switch out and introduce "arcs" into the role-play, handling the story with their own flair and point of view when it comes to their turn.


I think it'd be very cool and interesting way to keep a story fresh and ever-changing. Anyone have experience with this they can share with me?

 

[Gilzar]

Well, it's an interesting process for the most part.


I've done co-GMing every now and then. My experiences have varied, but my best memories probably come from two roleplays i ran on a previous site.


So the first one was a Naruto roleplay, and it was very small because there were only 4-5 of us in it at the time. Needless to say we had a family like atmosphere going, afterall we'd been together for over 200 pages before the roleplay forum actually started to show interest in us. By then though I already knew the traits of my fellow roleplayers pretty well, specifically one whom I shall call Icebird (Not his real username). Icebird was a very good friend of mine yet he had his flaws considering he was a mid-puberty middle schooler from my conversations with him. He used to be an awful godmodder until I finally was able to fix it, and even then he had just the natural attitude of a troll. Still, we became good friends so I gave everyone in my group what I called 'Admin command' and that meant that they had all the rights I had to the roleplay, so long as they did not try and change what had already previously happened.


Well my 'admins' worked well for a while, and while they never did roleplay without me they always were the first to judge the awful CS's my Naruto~legacy (Actual title) roleplay was constantly bombarded with. We set kind of a private roleplay rule until we got sick of that, then we implemented the 'Open roleplay' sort of rule. That went to shit really quickly once inexperienced me started letting in inexperienced roleplayers WHO TYPED ALL DIALOGUE IN CAPS BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THEY THOUGHT IT WAS DONE. Not shitting you, that actually happened and these guys weren't trolls. So the 'admins' and I soon came to the conclusion that we had to kick people out...and that I would do it. Well, let's just say that 'Icebird' had different plans, and rather than typing a well thought up statement about why we're giving four or so players the boot he just basically posts the most disrespectful paragraph long message basically telling the new roleplayers that they suck at roleplaying and need to leave the roleplay immediately, and even went further to insult their intelligence. I cringe at it today.


Then I made the mistake of officially co-gming with icebird, and we started the first ever copy of my roleplay Children of Aspera. It was great, until icebird found steam and never came back online. Never, not once did he come on until a solid month later. Then when I asked him if he was done roleplaying he would always deny, and act like he was coming back just to drop everything in the middle of an emotionally intense scene and just leave. Finally I told him I was sick of his shit and that he needed to do me a favor after the entire year we'd been friends and stop lying to me. He admitted he would probably never come back, and after that I came to this website!


So in the end what I guess I'm saying is do it with someone you trust and know is mature, or else you're entire roleplay/reputation is going to get shit on.

 

[White Masquerade]

Wow. I'm sorry to hear that happened. You are definitely right and I can see that happening. That kind of goes in with what I worry about. I want to try something like this with 3 other people in the future, but wouldn't know what would happen if one of the GMs had an issue, or players don't like their piece as much as they liked the piece from another one. Is it too much trouble? Should I just forget about it?

 

[Bone2pick]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]Not multiple GMs working together, but a system where one GM would handle the story for a few events, then rotate with another GM to follow it up with more plot. It would be a line of GMs that switch out and introduce "arcs" into the role-play, handling the story with their own flair and point of view when it comes to their turn.

[/QUOTE]
I love this idea. ( ) Not only would/could it increase excitement about future story arcs, but it would almost guarantee a high level of player investment, because the players would anticipate their turn to GM.


I predict this process would work best with an established world, like a fandom, for GM consistency sake.

 

[amdreams]

I don't have much experience with this sort of thing to be honest. I've only done it with one roleplay twice now. The first time . . . didn't end so well, but the second time is going on pretty well, given there is only 2 people in the rp at this point so that sort of helps. Anyway, if my two cents is worth anything, it is something that makes arcs fresh and interesting. However, like anything in roleplaying, there are some things to look out for.


Like Gilzar said, you have to make sure you trust the people you are giving this power to. It is all too easy for the wrong people to abuse their power as a GM. Some may contradict existing lore. Some could feel like they can ignore the rules set for the regular players. So it has to be someone who you believe will respect their limitations and power. What I tried to do was make sure people knew that though they had power over the story, I still had power over them in terms of player conduct and general rules. Something that apparently wasn't easy to understand for some, as one gm broke one of the rules of the rp and when I tried talking to them about it, things . . . blew up.


One thing I want to add, is to make sure all your GMs are communicating, or at least with you. In case things may not be canon, it's probably be best if you're aware of at least the major points of the arc. That way if you notice something wrong, you can tackle it in the beginning rather than when it's too late. And if you don't want to spoil the surprise of it for you, then like mentioned above, try to choose people you trust. Ones who you know would be willing to compromise if something is amiss.


But then again, like I said, I have very limited experience with this.

 

[White Masquerade]

I love this idea. ( ) Not only would/could it increase excitement about future story arcs, but it would almost guarantee a high level of player investment, because the players would anticipate their turn to GM.
I predict this process would work best with an established world, like a fandom, for GM consistency sake.

Yes! You get it! If we were in a roleplay, I myself would fascinated to see what you would do with the material, Bone. I'd love to see your techniques, how you see a certain character, your ideas; I'm drooling. It'd be like a healthy little competition or show and tell. I would certainly be waiting for my turn AND everybody else's!


About the established world, you are 800% right. However, I did find a way around that so it isn't limited to fandoms. Thanks to @welian 's recent thread, the answer is so clear. Reboots. Abandoned or half completed RPs LITTER the site's archives. A bunch of them have great lore and story already set it up, but for some reason or another, weren't released or never got off the ground. There is a massive, massive pool we can choose from that includes more genres than just Fandom. It's like we're recycling to make something new!

 

[welian]

Oh hey, a tag! Let me contribute. I'm on my phone though so please forgive odd typos.


I have a stillborn roleplay that I plan to reboot maybe this winter. The theme is people fighting nightmare monsters with the power of their dreams.


One of the rules of this story is that every person who plays as a Knight - one of the protagonists - must also be willing to play as a "nightmare of the week", a one-shot antagonist that people take turns assuming the role of, just like a tv show.

 

[White Masquerade]

I don't have much experience with this sort of thing to be honest. I've only done it with one roleplay twice now. The first time . . . didn't end so well, but the second time is going on pretty well, given there is only 2 people in the rp at this point so that sort of helps. Anyway, if my two cents is worth anything, it is something that makes arcs fresh and interesting. However, like anything in roleplaying, there are some things to look out for.
Like Gilzar said, you have to make sure you trust the people you are giving this power to. It is all too easy for the wrong people to abuse their power as a GM. Some may contradict existing lore. Some could feel like they can ignore the rules set for the regular players. So it has to be someone who you believe will respect their limitations and power. What I tried to do was make sure people knew that though they had power over the story, I still had power over them in terms of player conduct and general rules. Something that apparently wasn't easy to understand for some, as one gm broke one of the rules of the rp and when I tried talking to them about it, things . . . blew up.


One thing I want to add, is to make sure all your GMs are communicating, or at least with you. In case things may not be canon, it's probably be best if you're aware of at least the major points of the arc. That way if you notice something wrong, you can tackle it in the beginning rather than when it's too late. And if you don't want to spoil the surprise of it for you, then like mentioned above, try to choose people you trust. Ones who you know would be willing to compromise if something is amiss.


But then again, like I said, I have very limited experience with this.

You bring up good points. For finding someone you can trust, that is a must. I guess looking at their roleplay history would be a good start? Though there are some users who'd do well that have never GMed an RP, so not sure how to find them.


As for making sure another one didn't mess with canon, I would prefer it moved away from that. I'd like to see the other GMs have complete creative freedom without someone constantly looking over their shoulder. I want it to be pure. In comics, I see that there are multiple writers who handle writing stories for the same characters. And there are rarely problems. I want it to be like that. Where another GM can add in their own lore, which in some cases, might overwrite what already happened. Alternate worlds, going into the future, going into past, etc. All that is okay with me. I'd think itd spice up the story. Thoughts?


 

Oh hey, a tag! Let me contribute. I'm on my phone though so please forgive odd typos.
I have a stillborn roleplay that I plan to reboot maybe this winter. The theme is people fighting nightmare monsters with the power of their dreams.


One of the rules of this story is that every person who plays as a Knight - one of the protagonists - must also be willing to play as a "nightmare of the week", a one-shot antagonist that people take turns assuming the role of, just like a tv show.

Oh, that's a twist on the idea. I like it. So they'd just be a villain, or would they would have to direct things too? That still stays to you?

 

[welian]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]Oh, that's a twist on the idea. I like it. So they'd just be a villain, or would they would have to direct things too? That still stays to you?

[/QUOTE]
As I've got it now, each player simply takes turns being the Sailor Moon generic monster of the week to be defeated. Should the rper want to continue using their nightmare as a recurring antagonist, I'd work with them on involving their nightmare in future plots.


Class is starting, I'll be back in a few hours.

 

[Bone2pick]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]As for making sure another one didn't mess with canon, I would prefer it moved away from that. I'd like to see the other GMs have complete creative freedom without someone constantly looking over their shoulder. I want it to be pure. In comics, I see that there are multiple writers who handle writing stories for the same characters. And there are rarely problems. I want it to be like that.

[/QUOTE]
Sure, like a sandbox. Each GM would have a lot of freedom—a very long leash—but ultimately he or she will need to stay in the sandbox. That's why I suspect a fandom world, as opposed to an original world, will better serve this process. It's just easier to maintain tone, themes, and environment in a fandom/familiar setting.


I'm not suggesting it has to be fandom, I just predict it will be easier if it is. It would eliminate all of the lengthy world building that typically goes into quality RPs. And all fandoms have nice reference material i.e. movies, books, television series, ect, to sync up with.


Either way it should be really fun if we can manage to wrangle in the right members! (B')

 

[amdreams]

Well, of course, they should be able to add their own lore. I meant people contradicting things that were already established in the rp during previous arcs or in the setting of the rp. Like if a villain was established as dead in one arc but somehow he's working together with the new villain with no reason as to how he's not dead. Or if a certain artifact can only be used in a specific way but then someone is now waving it around and using it all willy nilly. Or suddenly a vampire shows up in a realistic high school setting. These sorts of things can be plausible with explanation though, but when brought out of nowhere, it could be a tad annoying.

 

[Bone2pick]

@amdreams Experienced roleplayers usually avoid those mistakes.

 

[Grey]

I've tried this on both RPN and in real life.


The RPN version fizzled out due to the usual problems of player attrition.


In real life, we finished one plot arc and then our flakiest friend, who had volunteered for second arc when we started, flaked out and killed the momentum of it.


I'd maybe try it again, but it would be slow and I'd convince someone else to do arc one, take arc two myself, and see how it goes from there.

 

[White Masquerade]

@welian


No problem. And when you get back could you explain a little more? I can't quite get how you see it? So everyone is going to be going after that 1 player? It sounds like it would be hard to manage.


@amdreams


Understood. I agree with Bone and would say that can be cleared with following what you and Gilzar mentioned about getting people you can trust/are experienced. That I believe, would be really easy to tell; who would and wouldn't mess with lore like that. C'mon AM! Trust us RPers more =P


@Grey


I actually think it needs to be fast, taking into consideration how online role-playing goes. It's hard to sit through an arc that takes months to finish, when people already have limited time posting. It'd be harder to showcase the different GMs, if there are a few that are taking their time to build things up into a true story. Was the one you tried IRL, long too? I get the feeling that may have been a reason for the flake out. I know you know directing stories for a long amount of time is brutal. It really is not for everybody. The change of mind, tips me off. Like they realized, "Yikes, I have to do ALL this??" (After they watched the 1st arc get done.)


At least for the first go around, the only thing I would suggest is all participating GMs shorten their work into one, compact piece of story. I feel that would elevate their writing and quality, since they'd be concentrating their energies into one part only, then handing it off to someone else. Still, I was never a novel writer, so that suggestion just might be me being lazy. What do you think about it?


Say a knight had to beat a dragon.


GM 1: Handles the Knight's backstory


GM 2: Handles the Knight's call to town to help he/she out


GM 3: Handles the Knight's adventure to the Dragon's cave.


GM 4: Handles the battle with the dragon.


GM 5: Handles the after-story.


^ It can even be one event split up over GMs, if users are nervous about having to completely create their own story.

 

[Grey]

Nope, first arc IRL took maybe three-four three hour sessions? Just hanging out in the living room on a Saturday evening, break for pizza, very concise plot.


But yeah, doing it online probably would require more speed than is typical- though it can take weeks to complete a single scene through posting in most games.

 

[Bone2pick]

But yeah, doing it online probably would require more speed than is typical- though it can take weeks to complete a single scene through posting in most games.

I think smart GMs can account for that. I wouldn't mind telling a story inside a single scene/location. For example, a witch trial set inside a town square. No location change needed.

 

[White Masquerade]

Nope, first arc IRL took maybe three-four three hour sessions? Just hanging out in the living room on a Saturday evening, break for pizza, very concise plot.
But yeah, doing it online probably would require more speed than is typical- though it can take weeks to complete a single scene through posting in most games.

Ah then, I've got nothing on that =/


Yes. That is the biggest problem I see now. Taking weeks to complete one scene doesn't sound too cool to me. Thank you for bringing it up. I'll see if I can find someway around that. That'd be okay if the multiple GM-thing ever caught on and people are comfortable with it, but for now, I picture 2.5 weeks at most for each GM. I'll think it over.

 

[Grey]

I think smart GMs can account for that. I wouldn't mind telling a story inside a single scene/location. For example, a witch trial set inside a town square. No location change needed.

We actually set the game in a single city. Each player provided details of a faction and some locations of interest, with intent to develop them more in our own arcs and build on anything the previous GM had done.


I feel like this could work with a shared setting operating on defined rules - leave plenty of blank space for each GM to fill in, but ensure that everything remains consistent.


That's been a hallmark of good commercial RPGs; you get a clear understanding of how the world works, and room to expand existing content or add your own in a way that's coherent with the rest of the world. It also means clever players, through appropriately knowledgeable characters, can pick up clues to what you're doing and follow the plot organically.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Bone2pick


Well there you go. Story in one scene sounds good to me. ( ) I wouldn't have an issue trying that.

 

[amdreams]

I know there are trustworthy rpers out there, but unfortunately, my experience with the untrustworthy ones greatly outnumber the other. The stories I could tell but won't.


I do have some nowadays that I trust but I still believe in being cautious. I mean I can hardly trust people in real life and the last person I allowed to gm killed another rper's character without consent and when I tried resolving things privately, brought it into public and sparked the biggest online fight I've ever been in.


But you're right. If you trust the person, them you have nothing to fear.

 

[White Masquerade]

I know there are trustworthy rpers out there, but unfortunately, my experience with the untrustworthy ones greatly outnumber the other. The stories I could tell but won't.
I do have some nowadays that I trust but I still believe in being cautious. I mean I can hardly trust people in real life and the last person I allowed to gm killed another rper's character without consent and when I tried resolving things privately, brought it into public and sparked the biggest online fight I've ever been in.


But you're right. If you trust the person, them you have nothing to fear.

Oh my. I don't know where the difference is, but in my time on the site, I've been continually lucky enough to meet and write with excellent people. I still meet more and more amazing players everyday. It sounds like you need to do something different...but I'm not sure what. Are you involved in simple/casual RPs? Simple, I completely avoid and go for casual ones that really need to change their tag to 'Casually Detailed' =P.

 

[welian]

I RETUUUUURN


@White Masquerade


Now that I have a full keyboard again, I can explain more thoroughly!! The entire roleplay is an homage to magical girl and super sentai anime. It was intended to be divided into "episodes" - basically, small plot arcs that cover one or two day's worth of events. Traditionally, in shows such as Sailor Moon, Power Rangers, etc., there are both episodic plots and overarching plots. For those who may not be aware, an overarching plot is something that happens over the course of multiple episodes such as "Destroy the Britannian Empire". An episodic plot is something contained to, more or less, a single episode, such as "A cat stole the helmet for my alter-ego's costume and I need to get it back before anyone finds out that it's really my helmet" (thought admittedly, Code Geass is not a super sentai show and therefore wasn't the best example).


The Monster of the Week is a trope that applies to a lot of shows - Pokemon has a trainer or gym leader to be defeated, Bleach has various Hollows to be defeated (especially in the first season), and so on. What I'm doing in this roleplay is delegating that "monster of the week" role to various players. While I'm in charge of the overarching plot of the Knights eradicating the Night Terrors, I let each player create and play a Night Terror to be challenged by the Knights in that "episode".


Now, since the roleplay hasn't started, I have no idea how well this will actually work in practice, but I look forward to trying it out! It'll save me a little bit of brain power, and the players will hopefully find it an engaging and interesting technique. Plus, it gives everyone a chance to show off what THEY think is worthy of being a Night Terror.

 

[amdreams]

To be fair, most of these bad experiences were from previous sites I've been on over the span of 7 years I've been roleplaying. Most of my experiences on this site since I joined it like 2-3 years ago have been most pleasant.


I tend to go for casual rps that interest me (and are able to keep me interested in the premise for a while) since I don't have much faith in my abilities to excel in detailed ones. That and most detailed ones either don't interest me or seem to require a certain length or amount of activity that I don't think I can fulfill on a regular basis. What with school, work, lack of muses, etc.


As for the example I told you, it's not a matter of what level of roleplay it was. It was for a roleplay of mine that was started as a casual but was then changed to detailed from the staff. So, it was both? Not that it was the detail of the roleplay that was a problem. Content wise, he was an excellent roleplayer. Long posts full of detail and it wasn't just flowery, useless description. We just had different views on how roleplay is done and as the majority of the rp tended to side with him in most situations, I'm guessing he was looking for some power in numbers to plead his case, though I wish we could've settled it privately first as that's my method of doing things. In the end, I just evaluated what I had seen on everyone so far and we were just too different and that even if we resolved this particular issue, there would only be more in the future. It wasn't that they were horrible or beginners. We were just different. Though I'm glad that the whole ordeal happened because I've certainly learned to be more strict with accepting members and I gained 2 friends out of it who I can trust to help me run things.


But that's why I feel the need to be cautious. Because experience doesn't mean we'll roleplay the same way.

 

[White Masquerade]

@welian


Okay! Now I get you. I like the concept. Please let me know how it works out if it gets set up. I'm not fully sold on it quite yet, so I'd like to see it in practice.


@amdreams


That I can understand. Good you said this too! Completely slipped my mind.I won't lie, I was thinking experienced role-player = good GM. I couldn't be farther from the truth huh? This does make the search for partners more tricky for sure, but still happy you pointed that out. Could have been a big misstep.

 

[Life.]

Overall I see Gming with multiple people as a group project, simple as that.


The mechanics though maybe slightly different in both topics but most of the factors are similar.


1) Trust, as it has been stated before. If you have trust between users, it will be easier to give construction criticism without being cautious since you are familiar with the people and they know how you may respond. Although this does not mean dog down the whole idea, no, it will just be easier to throw out your input on how you take the idea without having to watch your wording or being cautious of the other person's feelings.


2) Dedication, a major factor to any roleplaying really but one that can be repeated once again for remembrance sakes. Everyone Gming needs to have the same amount of dedication put into the roleplay or else the motivation may die out. It's kind of like directing a movie, you need all the writers together. There is never a single writer, at least I don't believe there is. At one point I was a co-GM for one roleplay that had much potential but due to real life issues it prevented attention from all of us to the roleplay which ended up dying out.


3) Compromise. Now there maybe some mixed views about this but for me I prefer to work together and talk about each part rather than divide and conquer or assigning certain parts to a particular GM. I feel that if all discuss on one aspect of the plot, with all their different minds they can create an even better arc than what was originally planned because one may think of something that all may not seem. And perhaps if the work was divided and one person thought up of one arc that may have been better on a different location of the plot it can cause a weird transition in the story.


4) Courtesy. Although it maybe already within the lines, it does not hurt to say it. There needs to be kindness between all individuals and what is being said. Sometimes people can get out of line but it should be resolved easily if there is trust to begin with.


5) Realism. If it ends up that someone is not putting up their end...just let them go. This is probably the hardest part. Especially if they are slacking due to real life issues. We are all kind people who wish not to disrespect or hurt other people but sometimes it maybe better for them if they can't see it. Sadly in school group projects I can't let the person go but I can get them to fail. (Watch out I'm a mean person when it comes to school group project slackers.)


Now this is all I can of for now. But continuing relating Gming to project and pretty much they are almost the same.


I hope this future project of yours turns out well, okaa-sama~