MBTI/Cognitive Functions

[Stickdom]

I'll be honest, I have no idea how to test myself on this, but I've always been meaning to take a personality test on this level. If I had to give myself a "label" based solely on my perception of myself (only taking consistent habits into account, not passing whims and feelings) I'd have to say I'm most likely an ISFJ, or maybe an INFJ, I'm not 100% sure whether I'm more grounded in reality or scatter-brained and imaginative. And I know these aren't definitive classifications of a person, and you can waver from one to the other on a given day, but that's simply my take on me xD


EDIT: As I look at the Cognitive Functions and their descriptors, as well as which functions go into making up each one, I see that I'm actually more of an INFJ than I thought, and just slip into an ISFJ-mode occasionally rather than regularly xD

 

[Pariah Stark]

Nature vs. Nurture was far more applicable in the earlier days of psychology and maybe even up until the early-to-mid nineteen hundreds. Modern science has shown us so much in regards to neuroscience, genetic composition, causation and correlation that many concepts of the older models of psychology almost appear as archaic as alchemy. Not only are the two incredibly dependent on each other, but if you look at it fundamentally, you can see some inherent flaws in the older model. Genes are not set in stone - regardless of what media tells you. You cannot look at a slice of DNA and be able to predict every single choice a person will make. The nature debate, while still holding some ground, isn't nearly as strong as it used to be. However, the nurture argument existed in its earliest stages as a counterargument to Nature, which means that the logical structure that gave strength to the Nature argument also weakens the Nurture one when it becomes obsolete. Nature vs. Nurture is a fantastic learning tool, but beyond that, the subdivisions of psychology and their individual impact are significantly more relevant to real-world interpretations.


I only bring this up because the current iterations and "re-applications" of MBTI don't use Nature vs. Nurture often or at all because most modern psychology views it as an outdated argument/perspective. The ultimate answer to the debate was "neither one of you are entirely correct" when enough information was provided. Of course, I believe that there should be clear points when models like this are used for educational purposes and that a lot of science should be purged again of former theories and arguments to have them rewritten, but then I'm also the guy that understands Common Core math and why it's used. I was blazing past my teachers and peers in almost every math class I was in using elements of Common Core math ranging from basic algebra to calc/trig and physics-based applications thereof before I ever heard of Common Core.


#INTPMasterRace

 

[White Masquerade]

@The Architect


There goes my poor TE acting up =/. Yeah, yeah, I mentioned Nature Vs. Nurture assuming everyone knew it wasn't one or the other, but both influenced each other. Environmental factors potentially being able to unravel things like histones, to allow expression of "closed" genes, pretty much solidifies that for me. It being one OR the other, doesn't even make sense when you think about it generally. Neuroscience is a good field btw! I am a supporter of putting technology inside of people, to improve what we can do, and neuroscience is a very important field to getting there!


Lol. Architect though...


You completely went off topic with that second paragraph. It was completely unnecessary (>u>)


#ENFPMasterRace (:*)

 

[Pariah Stark]

Education is something I value highly. In the US, the system implemented for education both publicaly and privately including its relationship to the job field and careers is at an existential point where I believe it needs entirely restructured. Some parts of it remain archaic while others are getting updated so far beyond the rest that the schism between the two ultimately becomes a detriment. I'm not someone to immediately disvalue standardized testing or new techniques, but the lack of consistency and progression with the fields as well as monetary incentive have damaged education almost irreparably.


But, that's just my INTP side speaking. When I see a system as flawed, I often prefer to destroy it and and rebuild from the ground up instead of fixing the problems directly. For instance, when I take lead on a project, the first thing I do is deem whether I believe it can be recovered. This type of assessment is the exact analytic function of an INTP. Further than that, even, it's a sign of a developing INTP. In adolescence, including my own, there would be no assessment step - it would be immediate and demanded restructure at all costs.


In short, I'd make a great supervillain. I'd even have the self-righteous speech about the justification of collateral damage and how the final product will be so much better than the status quo that any losses are acceptable...


Oh, the live I would live inside a comic book...


#hailhydra #INTPMasterRace

 

[Pariah Stark]

Lol INTP and ENFP mix about as well as oil and water. Miss Masquerade should, in theory, hate everything about my attitude.

 

[White Masquerade]

[QUOTE="The Architect]Education is something I value highly. In the US, the system implemented for education both publicaly and privately including its relationship to the job field and careers is at an existential point where I believe it needs entirely restructured. Some parts of it remain archaic while others are getting updated so far beyond the rest that the schism between the two ultimately becomes a detriment. I'm not someone to immediately disvalue standardized testing or new techniques, but the lack of consistency and progression with the fields as well as monetary incentive have damaged education almost irreparably.

[/QUOTE]
^ I 200% agree with this. What we have now (in the U.S. at least) sucks. I don't know if there are a group of people doing this on purpose, or officials really just don't know how to fix the issue, but it's a scary thing. Students don't get things/want to be there, and teachers have to choose between being an actual teacher, or being a good employee. (BP)

[QUOTE="The Architect]But, that's just my INTP side speaking. When I see a system as flawed, I often prefer to destroy it and and rebuild from the ground up instead of fixing the problems directly. For instance, when I take lead on a project, the first thing I do is deem whether I believe it can be recovered. This type of assessment is the exact analytic function of an INTP. Further than that, even, it's a sign of a developing INTP. In adolescence, including my own, there would be no assessment step - it would be immediate and demanded restructure at all costs.

[/QUOTE]
This is cool. Thanks for the insight into that. I would prefer to re-arrange and throw new parts into the place of defective pieces. Then a final check to make sure everything flows well from point A to Z.

[QUOTE="The Architect]

In short, I'd make a great supervillain. I'd even have the self-righteous speech about the justification of collateral damage and how the final product will be so much better than the status quo that any losses are acceptable...


Oh, the live I would live inside a comic book...


#hailhydra #INTPMasterRace

[/QUOTE]
e.e Stay far away from real people.

[QUOTE="The Architect]Lol INTP and ENFP mix about as well as oil and water. Miss Masquerade should, in theory, hate everything about my attitude.

[/QUOTE]
Haha. Well. We are lucky enough to be two healthy individuals of our type. Two of any type can get along well, if they are healthy and respect how each other operates. I happen to admire Introverted Thinking and see the real value of it. Am I jealous of it? Yeah, a little bit. The extreme world-builders I see around the site, clearly have it at a high level, and the worlds they create, always fill me with awe. Like, how the hell do they do that? How do they keep track of all that? It's very difficult for me. Introverted Thinking, isn't even in the ENFPs lineup.


All that aside, we also share high Extroverted Intuition, so we are very open when it comes to discussion. Put all that together and we are actually very compatible. :5/5:

 

[Stickdom]

@Stickdom[/URL]
Let me clear that up for you. You have to take into account the position of each function as well. I said "scatter-brained" for ENFP, because Extroverted Intuition is high for them (first). If you compare an ENFP with ISFJ, who has lower Extroverted Intuition (Last), they will look different from each other. The ISFJ will not look "scatter-brained".


Compare the Extroverted Thinking of ENFP (third) to the ENTJ's (first). The ENTJ will be much, much more straight-forward, short, logical, ordered, and efficient. I get the vibe some think I come across as a bit rude and brusque. Wait until a real ENTJ/ESTJ comes to the site (x_x). There will be a stark difference.


So take the position of the functions into account too. If you picked ISFJ and INFJ, then you must be fairly certain you have Introverted Thinking & Extroverted Feeling. Check whether you have SI or SE to narrow things down.

Well, I had assumed that was taken in context of "Looking at my Cognitive Functions", as in, I had determined the order in which they appeared xD I used this site to narrow it down for myself among my perceived processes, thus bringing me to my conclusion The 16 Type Patterns

 

[White Masquerade]

Well, I had assumed that was taken in context of "Looking at my Cognitive Functions", as in, I had determined the order in which they appeared xD I used this site to narrow it down for myself among my perceived processes, thus bringing me to my conclusion The 16 Type Patterns

Gotcha. To be honest, I would not recommend that site to find the order. It's not terrible, i's just that adds in information that will only confuse you. It's an advanced description of the functions' positions and if you're not really deep into the subject yet, it's going to send you in the wrong direction. Looking over what it says, I don't even like how it describes the dominant as "having a mature quality" to it, or the auxiliary as "how we are helpful to others/nurturing parent". What does a function "acting like a nurturing parent" even mean?


The website you bring up, is a good example of when people start to over-complicate the functions. They add in their own personal ideas and observations, to something that is already abstract to begin with. That's going to send people in the wrong direction very, very fast. That was not the author's intent, but it happens. Really, the functions are all very straightforward and simple, as I look back on it now.


You see how that page goes into shadow functions? Don't read about them. You honestly don't need to know about them. If you already read them over, I apologize. Try to do your best to forget about them. Shadow functions, are a relatively new addition to the theory. It won't make your life better if you know about them. Here is a small, simple, objective, breakdown, of function position.


Dominant: Automatic, Natural


Auxiliary: Very Strong, if the dominant is the all-star, the auxiliary is the pro


Tertiary: Alright, not natural, but can be used with some effort


Inferior: Weak, works idly in the background, struggles with, on-and-off


^ This. Nothing more and nothing less. If you absolutely need some talking/visuals/discussion to grow a good base and get you in the right direction, check out DaveSuperPowers' videos on Youtube. His videos helped me A LOT. I'd even say, that if I didn't watch them, I'd still be lost about MBTI and the functions. I'll link one of his videos, that I think says a lot. Overall, they are easy to watch, understand, and he has a good sense of humor too.

[media]

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[/media]

 

[Pariah Stark]

I wouldn't disqualify Shadow Processes so quickly. My primary Shadow Process is Extraverted Thinking, but if you really see how far stretched Thinking itself is as an INTP, developing Extraverted Thinking to create a giant, solid chunk of Thinking isn't difficult or exactly a waste. In fact, I generally consider there to be three levels of "effort" when it comes to thought for me: passive, active and obsessive. Passively, my Thinking quality diminishes greatly and I would argue my Extroverted Intuition probably becomes equal to it. This is the attitude I have for conversations with my friends or at work with customers. Why? In my experience, overthinking things has been the bane of my social interactions and when I was put into an entirely social situation I had to rely on my strongest Extraverted asset. I did all of this without knowing anything about cognitive processes; it was how I did my job. Not to mention, there were times when my mindset, for whatever potential reason, simply didn't have the capability of strong thinking - the reasons for it are as simple as wanting to celebrate something. This again is when my Extraverted Intuition - the ability to interpret everything in front of me and react to it accordingly - came into play. This "passive" nature is when I'm not thinking - it's when I'm acting. Through development and personal training, you can made your secondary processes more important. But, that's not really where I was going with this.


The moment I turn that switch on and decide it's time to be an active thinker is the moment I embrace my true Introverted Thinking. Extraverted Intuition is no longer my interaction powerhouse - it becomes support for my thinking. The people around me - my friends or coworkers - know from just being around me that there is a point when I'm not there to talk - I'm there to work and come up with a solution. At that point, I'm reviewing everything I know - that little book that has the exact milliliters per fluid ounce at what rate of dispense? That comes to mind. Is it mechanical or a programming error? Or, did that little sixteen year old just lie to me because they're afraid they broke a twelve thousand dollar machine; in reality, a single mishap could do such a thing. This is how my brain works. Full and absolute analysis of the situation from every angle. But, the weak point to this is that I'm only seeing the issue in front of me until its solution. In terms of roleplay, this is when I would be developing a page, such as an Overview. I'm looking at every potential function, every piece of code, the future implications as far up to possible expansion and edition. More than that is my content. I often work with preexisting material because my natural strength is innovation and creativity within confines. I don't see limitations; I see challenges to be overcome. When I'm designing a world, I will take a single segment and flesh it out as if it were real; on other sites, I have Modern Fantasy and Post-Apocalyptic roleplays with depth that goes as far as the potential outcomes for tectonic plate fractures based on localized kinetic force, the potential drop in population due to epidemics based off different vectors and carriers of disease and down to it the influence of things such as religion and leaders based on historical events in similar geographical and political environments throughout history. There is no detail too trivial. No effort wasted. Well, except for the fact I shut down and left all my RP's here - but that's an entirely different type of waste. And, lastly, looking at all of that, there's the literary functions. In college (I have two associate's presently, almost enough for a third [Don't ask why I didn't just go straight for a bachelor's, short answer is I love the world of academia despite my obvious disdain of its systems]), and a lot of my extra credits or electives are some form of philosophy or literature. Those are the classes I take for fun. I learn all these different techniques and structures used, and then use them for what I do. I'm rarely as expressive as others; I rarely write poetry, but I can. It takes effort - it actually takes more effort for me to be expressive like that than it does for me to be obsessive when Thinking. But, my art - my writing style - is constructive and uses various different techniques or perspectives to get a desired result based on the source material. That is my active thinking.


Then, there's Obsessive. Around the time I learned about Shadow Functions, I was already trying to cover my weakspots. What I realized is that weak spots exist not only as our lower-tier processes, but our shadow processes. Long story short, I absolutely hate developing Feeling regardless of which it is. The only time I take the time to work on it is when I buckle down and design social structures for a construct of mine, and by god, if anything drains it, it's that. I can rely on Extraverted Intuition to float along social conventions most of the time, but when I actually have to address feelings in any way, shape, or form, I immediately just don't want to deal with it. I'm objective. Matter-of-fact; I don't get angry as much as I get heated. It isn't until I cool down that I have to weigh the consequences of my actions, and even then I will always stand firmly beside what I believe is right and not give the slightest damn about how people feel. With that said, I felt like even attempting to develop that would be a waste of my time, so I worked on another approach. I expanded my Thinking function so that I could utilized Extraverted Thinking skills to augment Introverted Thinking. This style of thinking helped me bring in facts, analyze data, brainstorm from information provided and overall expand my creativity and perspective to see new possibilities. This is great for research, whether it's academic, for a roleplay or even job-related, but more importantly, it helped me develop a key skill that made me the youngest supervisor of my level on my division - or at least helped me get there. A subset of developing this was that I learned not only to follow my own logic - which only got stronger from it - but to follow the logic of others', whether I agreed with it or not, to figure out its merits, faults and why/if it worked. All of a sudden, I went from designing the most effective system I could after analyzing an entire situation to taking the ideas, lectures and input from people who have been doing this twenty-five years and deconstructing them to get incredibly useful insight and material that I otherwise am absolutely sure I wouldn't have had. People have always been a resource to me, but in this way, they became even greater resources. But, most of all, when I go into this obsessive level of thinking, I'm looking at every possibility on the inside while also pairing it with every potential piece of data I can see from the outside until I find several possible solutions to explore, weeding down the pipeline until I find the one or few I believe are objectively the best. That is a skill that requires a combination of both types of Thinking, and only exists due to strenuous practice on applying Extraverted Thinking - ranging from reading lectures, blogs and even listening to speeches by leading business management professors to George R. R. Martin about his time in Hollywood and how it affected him as a writer and even going as far as practicing reading graphs, interpreting data and seeing trends that I otherwise wouldn't have easily connected the dots for. Yes, this is draining and I can't do it long. Yes, it is rarely needed and still puts me behind some more specialized INTP's or just brilliant minds to begin with. But, damn, it makes you feel like a powerhouse when you accomplish so much with it and I swear to every deity you can come up with that it's STILL easier for me than dealing with any type of Fe or Fi.


tl;dr The shadow process of a dominant or auxiliary trait might be easier to develop than your own natural tertiary or inferior trait and provide better results. Additionally, you can train yourself to make your auxiliary trait as important as your dominant trait under the right circumstances. It's all about learning who you are as a person and how you work, then what you want to be able to do; it's a lot like working out.


The INTP is the Architect - the master builder and designer matched only by an ISTP that tests their own ideas for value of application. The ENTP is often considered the greatest debater, capable of stepping into the shoes of others, seeing through eyes not their own and being the ultimate Devil's Advocate. Pitted against each other, a debate rarely gets further than the initial definitions; an INTP will stand firmly beside what they define while an ENTP will pour tremendous energy into a counter-argument for a correction of accuracy that might not matter at all to the actual subject at hand. On the same side, an INTP will provide an almost immovable argument with strict, succinct and accurate definitions as the building blocks for complex thought and an ENTP will find nearly infinite ways to defend that point and weave between the intricacies like a fish in water.


Put those skills in the same person? You have one helluva villai... er, uh, lawyer. Yeah, that. Bruce Banner+The Joker


#INTPMasterRace #OnlyThreadIReplyTo

 

[TanteRegenbogen]

I am quite tired so I may have flown over the block of words there but I did a whole bunch of "tests" like with MBTI as well as have some DXes: INTP, PG, Aspie, extreme rational brain - social-emotional deficit, etc. Basically, I am an introvert who is easily annoyed by people who are controlled by emotion and everything has to be logical for me.

 

[Pariah Stark]

Basically, I am an introvert who is easily annoyed by people who are controlled by emotion and everything has to be logical for me.

Welcome to the club.


A note about MBTI is that it's designed to understand your functions and create predictions and patterns based on them. While it does use a tiered system of cognitive functions on several spectra, it is still just that: a system. Some people have multiple functions and transition between them. Not through maturation, but due to biochemical alterations in the hormones and activity in the brain - and that's just the tip of the iceberg. MBTI is a snapshot of a guideline. It can vary from highly accurate to not exactly defining a person or their functions entirely. Various factors ranging from environmental to traumatic can alter functions and tandems, and in fact, some of these alterations are so common that they are discussed in other research.


There is a lot more to Jung's work than the sixteen personalities that never gets brought up and some Neo-Psychologists or wannabes do their best to interpret his work without even taking the time to understand it all. Jung was brilliant and had a lot of brilliant theories and ideas that MBTI streamlines, but there is so much more to it. Everyone has an Internal and External function and it's entirely possible to shift on the spectrum depending on what state you're functioning in - and most models made for the MBTI reject this notion. The rejection of that notion completely eliminates several factors that are later discussed: the ease, frequency and triggers of function shifts.


Anyway, the INTP Club has pizza. Default is Supreme, but you can call ahead to meetings and pre-order whatever toppings you want. We have a book club, chess club, procrastinating protesters alliance and absolutely no attendance or dress policy. We ask all debates be done with sixty second timers for statements and that you don't request a specialty pizza if you don't intent on attending a meeting.

 

[TanteRegenbogen]

At least you have a good sense of humor compared to many INTPs I have met. Most seem to be just apathetic or cynical somehow.

 

[Pariah Stark]

Sense of humor? Maybe. Unfortunately, I've got this annoying little sense of justice as one of my core principles, which most INTP actually don't exhibit. Sooo, gain some-lose some.

 

[White Masquerade]

@The Architect


(^.^) Wow. That was a really, really sexy answer...hot.


You make all valid points. Everything checks out. I also admire your choice to jump into the shadows and master your Extroverted Thinking. I couldn't think of a reason anyone would want to do that, but here you come with something perfect. What you have here is viable and you have gotten results from it. Very cool. Truly I can say there is nothing "wrong" with how you approached things. That is genius; having Ti & Te, lol. I'm still grinning at the thought of it. However, what it shows, is that even though you have use of Extroverted Thinking, it has a narrow viewpoint. It's perverted or incomplete use of Extraverted Thinking, I could say. Yeah, shadow functions can be built and used, but even at a functional level, it's not whole, and probably never will be.


You see, the fact that you even chose to skip into the shadow functions to master Extroverted Thinking, is a testament to your Introverted Thinking way of looking at things. The logic and extreme advantage of doing that to help you in your field/career, was crystal clear to you (seriously, that is brilliant), but you ignored everything else external, that a "whole" Extraverted Thinking user, would take into account. Primarily, your lack of good Extraverted Feeling and probably good Introverted Sensing too.


I love your answer, I really do, because we can now get into the crux of true Te & Ti reasoning in action. As a "whole" Extraverted Thinker, I would never do what you did. Even praising your idea, I wouldn't do it myself. You took a huge gamble. Seeing how the world works, it's a risk I'm not willing to take. To me, doubling up on thinking is not worth it. I could even go as so far to say, it's not efficient.


Time is limited. Energy is limited. The time and energy (even more than normal, since it's not a natural function for you) you dedicate to building that Extraverted Thinking, takes away from the resources you could be allotting to Introverted Sensing and Extraverted Feeling. As much as I pride my intuition and feeling, the world shows me, that I have to build my thinking and sensing to become a well-rounded person. People judge you by how you dress. Having a weak or irrational sensing function, is really not cute. It can even be kind of dangerous because sensing is what you use to navigate and interpret the real world. Having a weak sensing function, is seriously not a good thing. I don't even have to say much about feeling functions. Being able to sustain healthy relationships, being cordial with people, knowing how to deal with your own as well as others' emotional hiccups...these are important skills to have, to live a real, fulfilling life. Architect. Strong thinking is beyond attractive. I'll be the first one to tell you. But hey, sometimes a person wants to just sit with somebody, hold hands, cuddle, and talk about non-sense. Talk about how much they love the other person, or how much the other person loves them. To listen to their partners' emotional issues, and have their own emotional issues' listened to.


If a person chooses to have kids, how are they going to connect with and handle them with weak feeling?


So the easiest and quickest way to get a set of "whole" well rounded functions, is to master the four you naturally prefer; which apparently takes a whole lifetime to do. I'd love to master some shadow functions, especially Extroverted Sensing, but in my mind, sacrificing something natural, to go for something far off the track, is not worth it.


God, I love you. That is Te vs Ti.


Introverted Thinking approaches, can have big reward, because they maximize reaching their perfect solution. The solutions they come up are amazing/brilliant: your plan and Einstein's theories (you have good company ( )).


Extraverted Thinking approaches, are more restrictive and safe, but extremely accurate in relation to and dealing with the world. Power-line grids, automated assembly lines, multi-billion dollar companies that span 50+ countries (McDonalds)...the build-up of these things are due to strong Extraverted Thinkers.




So in short. I like what you did. I'm not saying it's wrong either. I just wouldn't do it myself. You are right. That was wrong of me. I shouldn't write off shadow functions that quickly. I can now see the use of them. I myself wouldn't go about using them though.

 

[Pariah Stark]

A very intelligent teacher of mine, one that was taken across the world and used in thought tanks and for formal discussion - even with one of my personal heroes, Richard Dawkins - once said something resounding to me. Ironically, it was over my handwriting and he later apologized due to the context, but when I took his statement outside of context it stuck with me forever:

"Bud, you could write the most interesting novel ever wrote, but no one is gonna read it if it's too hard to read."

​

Simply because I did say it's taken out of context, let me give you said context: he was a literature teacher (although he could teach any class, except advanced math, maybe) and he was getting exceedingly frustrated with my admittedly poor handwriting. My handwriting is atrocious. To the point I carry around a bluetooth keyboard and make sure I'm linked up to our printer network every day to print notes or anything else I would need to write (it frustrates my older coworkers and peers because


I often send the emails that they don't check because no one else does). Now, I used to have great handwriting - I was an still am an artist. Due to a seizure at the ripe age of sixteen, I had to relearn many of my motor functions, including writing. The short end of it is that my handwriting looks about as legible as my twelve-year-old cousin's.


Still, this quote stuck with me. All throughout high school, a very select handful of people understood what I meant - even if I 'dumbed it down' - and even fewer of them understood its merits. They chalked it up to me 'just being smart' even though I explained what and why I was doing things over and over. I was the kid that refused to turn in tedious homework, but aced almost every test at the top tier and discussed things in the next chapter with the teacher simply because I was already foreseeing application. With the exception of very few, I was the most annoying kid in a classroom. The bane of public school is that with classes of 40-50, I was basically told to stfu and listen, which resulted in a whole lot of sleeping and disdain of authority. This wasn't just high school, though; this defined almost all of my Public School experience. So, when I heard that phrase from a man I respected a whole lot, it stuck with me: even the perfect idea is pointless if you can't use it. While I didn't start developing myself until quite a bit later (college/work era), I was already in the realization that I needed to do more than just make the perfect theory.


I want to move on to this quote from you:

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]is that even though you have use of Extroverted Thinking, it has a narrow viewpoint.

[/QUOTE]
The first thing I want to address is that even as an INTP or ENTP, you have to develop your own Ti or Te. Just "being" that doesn't immediately make you perfect at it; it gives you far greater potential to reach its peaks and makes it your natural, effortless process. I spent most of my young adulthood and even a lot of my time in college continuously working on my Ti; it was strong, but it can always be strengthened. So, of course when I bridge out to Te, it won't be perfect. However, Thinking itself is my primary cognitive function. Sure, I may never reach the "peak" of Extraverted Thinking, but in all reality, a lot of people with the quality don't. People with it as their Auxiliary or Tertiary might not have it extend as far because Thinking itself is my Primary and that puts Thinking as a whole at a huge advantage. What I will admit is that I probably neglect my Si entirely when I become Obsessive and use both Ti and Te, but at that point, do I really need it? To properly utilize that shadow function, I'm using a substantial amount of effort and Ti still exists to support my Thinking in general. By that point, I navigate the real world and the environment around me purely by understanding it. Te above even Ti gives you the ability to spot inconsistencies in speech, data, analytic flow, make instant, spot-on connections for causation/correlation, and I know the huge difference for when I become Obsessive is that it literally feels like the world isn't the world anymore. It's as if I put on a pair of rose-colored glasses and everything changes a slight hue. Because it takes more effort in general, my Ti and Ne get a good bolster out of it, too. So, yeah, it could be dangerous, but the thing is, it's a tool. Any tool can be dangerous of misused. For example, the Mangekyou Sharingan. Overuse that shit, you go blind. If I tried to overuse this Shadow Function, not only would I exhaust myself, but I have very low social interaction skills at that time - I want to find a solution. I want to define the problem so that I can best find a solution. I don't care if that solution is in a handbook or requires some creative thinking; I don't care if it's on a chart, buried deep inside the experiences of a veteran coworker or requires contacting a higher in-organization authority. I want the solution and everything around me becomes a resource. But, the step further than that is not only do I want to find the solution, I want to use the solution. I want to implement it step-by-step, analyze its effects, see if its really 'the best' and understand it as a whole. I could go into more detail, but really, I already know the dangerous you discussed and that's why this is rarely used. In fact, if I ever use this for roleplay purposes, it is normally completely alone, isolated and meant to generate possibilities for the plot, variables that other roleplayers might present and really all the potential "what if's" including some ideas I've been wanting to implement, but require a bit more effort to hammer in.


A great way to explain it is that Ti+Te is my most personally introverted state because even though I gain Te - an Extraverted function - what I lose is a lot of social skills.


Then, of course, there's Introverted Sensing. Yep, I see the world far better in retrospect than I do at a given time. However, very rarely do I ever go back and think I'm wrong. What I do is I tend to go back and realize the consequences of being right weren't worth it, but I was still right. And, in my past, even if I pretend I'm wrong or just drop something to move on, it doesn't work for me. A situation needs addressed, a problem needs resolved and I will stand firmly beside what I believe in because I believe it is right. Or, I'm trolling - I do that a lot, too. I believe the single greatest thing I've developed from Si is that over my lifetime of looking back and reviewing, I will gladly "pause" a moment - "freeze" an argument - as long as we return to it. If the other person is getting upset or just plain being stupid because they're unable to maintain themselves in a heated situation, I will gladly take a short break and let them recollect themselves. But... you best be damn sure we're going to resolve the issue one way or another. I've made a lot of personal developments through Si and I can rethink entire situations to learn more or think of a better alternative. To a lesser extent, I would even say Si helped me realize Te was the best option for me to develop. Si helps me make decisions and get personal data. If you want a prime example of my Si in a roleplay, look at A Note to All Applicants. Almost all of that was designed initially with me knowing that if I didn't communicate some of that, it would occur more often. Then, I continued adding to it to try and prevent the same problems from happening again. The results? Far fewer people needed to fix or edit the problems I explained and that I gave structure to via Si. I'm honestly not for sure what happens to Si when I become Obsessive; I'd guess it shrinks, but it still acting to some degree. I've only ever tried to actively monitor my Intuition during those times.


But, this does bring up my passive nature again. I explained that I basically try to shove my Ne to my primary by "overlooking" and "ignoring" my Thinking. At first, this took some effort, but working as a People Dept. Manager for some time basically made this become second nature. When Ne becomes primary, I can almost always relate to that quote from the beginning. At this point, I'm not trying to come up with some glorious, magnificent idea. I'm making small talk, learning about people, holding conversations, so on and so forth. I'm using my Ne to its absolute fullest to do this. A lot of people say that even a detailed conversation with me that has my full attention is still "cold", and that's because to make that shift, I have to neglect my Thinking - which is my core cognitive function and my Feeling is weak to begin with. My Ne is probably even better than my Te in terms of seeing when someone is lying to me. In almost no time, I can pinpoint who's sleeping with who, who's whose ex, who's jealous of who, who wants to go on to college, which employee is going to be an annoying nark and which employee is probably smoking pot in that little nook in the bushes behind the parking lot. Do I bring any of that up? No. Because that's not pertinent to a conversation. But hey, stoner dude loves Halo, and Halo 5: Guardians is coming out. I say I took part of the Beta on my XBox One, and all of a sudden I went from the brand-new, super young supervisor to the guy that plays Halo on his XBox One and was a beta tester. Now, if I need to motivate Mr. Stoner dude, I know how to approach him in a positive context. That's one example of many; I grew up with my grandparents in a little rural town (in the time I wasn't out partying or down the street with the neighbors). I have enough experience and information regarding older practices, the attitudes of, well, old workers in Entry Level of even basic Supervisory positions to know how to switch off and immediately treat them with respect while also making myself the exact opposite of the guy that gets along with Mr. Stoner dude. I would say that trait inadvertently developed some Se, but I'm pretty sure all it really did was force me to use my Si faster. Instead of reviewing over the past over time, I do so very, very quickly in real time to augment a conversation, but I'm not really perceiving the whole outside world. It's still exclusive to my conversation and I do still feel like it's all coming from the past, so would more accurately say that I broadened my Si.


So, if Obsessive is Ti+Te, then Passive is Ne+Si. At a time, it took effort to "shift" into either one of those states, and even if one has become second nature to me, they aren't how I would normally function nor are they how I naturally function.


Naturally, I'm pretty much spot on an INTP with a disdain for any type of Feelings. Even now writing this, I'm pretty much functioning off of my Ti computing all of this, my Ne making sure it fits with the rest of our conversation, my Si recalling my past and my utter lack of F having virtually no impact.


Personally, I'd note that learning how to shift out of your mindset into another one is incredibly useful. Shadow Processes can be dangerous and in my experience when you develop a "shift state", you lose some qualities as well as gaining others. It's useful in situations. I used it to bridge my general lack of social interaction - not that I was without skill, but I had to go into a People-oriented job. It wasn't just flirting or a quick conversation at an end table anymore. I also used it to quickly expand my learning curve, albeit at the cost of social interaction. The skill to learn here is to assess your situation and figure out the best way to approach it. In your case, it should be even easier than me; I'm purely logical whereas you connect with others with relative ease.


A few other things to keep in mind: at a point in my life, I was in a hospital bed being told I'd have to completely change my lifestyle. No more partying, no more state-skipping adventures, so on and so forth. I had to relearn a lot of things, and I spent a lot of time dwelling in my own mind. That might make me more apt for this type of shift or alterations to my personality. I had to change my entire lifestyle once, so it's not like change isn't new to me. Not like I'm not a borderline sociopath, either, but that's another story.

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]If a person chooses to have kids, how are they going to connect with and handle them with weak feeling?

[/QUOTE]
I'm not having children - problem solved.

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]But hey, sometimes a person wants to just sit with somebody, hold hands, cuddle, and talk about non-sense.

[/QUOTE]
This is a flaw I find in MBTI. I hate Feeling, Fe or Fi, and I'm not naturally a very empathetic guy. But, if you think that doesn't mean I don't enjoy anything you just listed, you're wrong. I go a step further in being incredibly romantic.


First plane ride? I offered every note we ever exchanged for her to read while we were soaring above our local lakes, which are insanely gorgeous.


Tip the Ferris Wheel guy to get just a little extra time at the top so that we could see the whole town and then some.


Never forget I can cook, but more importantly, I can set a dinner table, make a full course meal illuminated solely by candlelight, and have it all ready and warm for a visit.


I might hate Feeling, but that doesn't mean I don't absolutely adore that precious sparkle in a deep set of dark brown eyes when they see a surprise just for them.


Romance can be founded on far more than Fi/Fe. A strong interpersonal bond can be forged from so many other things and chemistry can exist because you tolerate someone so well that you begin to accept their place in your life. It becomes less tolerance and more desire. It becomes a niche that they created themselves and that no one can take from them. Hey, I might be a jerk, but don't rule me out because I don't focus on Feeling alone.


Really, in the end, to Hell with being a well-rounded person. Develop who you are, make it strong and then figure out how to take your strengths and give them synergy with other functions and skills. Above all, learn to assess a situation. A well-rounded person will walk into every situation the same. Even if they assess a situation, they might not have the same flexibility. But, if you are flexible and you even have this unique skill that makes you unique or talented at one particular thing, then you will have a niche wherever you go and still be able to perform other duties. Learn to assess a situation and figure out how to approach it with your skills and never stop developing. Time is limited, but what's stopping you from expanding a Shadow Function a little bit? You don't need to master it, but a little bit beyond your norm will give you insight. What's stopping you from learning to prioritize a different function to approach a situation differently? You will be developing your primary function your whole life; it's never-ending. What you choose beyond your primary is what will begin to define your unique skill set.


You could tell me you're an ENFP, but fact is, you're White Masquerade and beyond that you're a whole different person beyond the screen. Be someone people want to learn about - far more than just four letters.


#INTPMasterRace

 

[White Masquerade]

@The Architect


Excellent. Well that was a good discussion. I have nothing further to say. We probably lost a few people though the first quarter of that, but the depth was worth it.


Any questions for me before I walk away from this? I don't have any for you. You've said more than enough, haha

 

[Pariah Stark]

Eh, bring up any topic and you'll lose people somehow. Too much depth, not enough, a direction they don't like - sort'a comes full circle to my constantly recurring catchphrase: you can't please everyone. I'm satisfied with the conversation. MBTI has always been a bittersweet topic - at least to me. It's design is based off some incredibly interesting work, but its structure at face value is designed for simple interpretations for common understanding. One drunk night, I had all my friends take it because why not and they were astounded by how much they felt it reflected them, but as soon as two people got the same results, they began to question how accurate it was knowing how different they as individuals were. Piece of advice: if you ever want to give your friends the test in a social setting, try to use a test or site that doesn't provide clear pros/cons, specifically the signs of an unhealthy or underdeveloped function. That's a whole story in and of itself, though.


I haven't any real questions, although I went into some pretty grand depth in my last reply. To be honest, I found it a little bitter in my mouth to have no retort to any of it, but I'm not terribly concerned about it. This was notably the last interesting thread I was replying to on the site, so once this dies out, I'll return from whence I came. I get bored consistently (especially since my IRL work project just ended, so I have tons of free time).

 

[White Masquerade]

@The Architect


Did I get this correct?

To be honest, I found it a little bitter in my mouth to have no retort to any of it, but I'm not terribly concerned about it.

Translated:


I want you to argue with me.


( )


I had more to say on a few things, like the Fe/Fi and few empathizing comments on your upbringing, but on the whole, I agreed with most of what you said. You highlighted your functions clearly, why you did what you did; you are very aware of yourself.


As much as going into a feeling function discussion would be enlightening, it's a touchy subject. One of my Fi values, is not getting into deep talks that could potentially ruffle someone's feathers, so I do not want to go that route. Even if you say it's alright to, I will not.


If you do end up leaving, it was good to speak with you! I did learn quite a bit.

 

[Pariah Stark]

Argue? Not, not specifically. To say the least, there were some exchanges that could have merited interesting responses. Outliers in a field of otherwise raw data. Buuut, if you want to take the comment in such a flattering fashion, go ahead.


More seriously, though, I only barely touched on my upbringing. The very minuscule insight you have on it would hardly be enough to adequately develop a proper personal image, in my opinion. My Fe/Fi might be weak, but I'm also one of the founding members of our 55-person Humanitarian sect in my tiny town that has managed to, in its three years, raise nearly 250,000$ (not just a random number, we hope to hit the quarter-million mark in 16) that instead of leaving our hands for donation was actually used by us alongside our labor to benefit our community and help those in need. Mind you, my town has around two thousand people in it and my county alone is smaller than neighboring cities. That number might be low, but it did a lot to bring together the community. We've also worked as a buffer with local community colleges to reach more kids in our town for specific scholarships and grants. Started that when I was eighteen with a few friends and a manager when I was a lowly peon in the wake of losing both of my grandfathers in a three month time period, and now it pretty much functions without me - when we first started, I was the guy making all the calls and visiting local businesses. Now, they call us and the local newspaper does all our press for free. I was on our local news a few times, although I prefer the time I made it on their for the Mass Casualty simulation when I finished EMT school.


Without knowing my history of the very tight timeline all this happened in, there are a lot of things I have done that just don't seem to 'fit my character' - to the degree that people who went to school with me had to double check if it was the same "so and so" they remembered. I wouldn't make that jump blindly.


But, on a whole, ruffling my feathers is generally quite hard. Generally, it takes a violation of one of my core principles to actually irritate me. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even get close to that. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single principle of mine that's associated with my feelings. Even my pride and ego are set aside for something I believe is right. You could say it's part of why I'm leaving. I have to word myself very, very tactfully just to have conversations and I really can't answer 'why' I'm leaving - and when that amount of restriction is put on me for something I still fervently believe I was unfairly persecuted for, I don't feel any obligation to stay. It pained me to kill off Seiryūden. I'd actually take something like this to PM's, but I don't have access to those either, so... yeah.


The INTP only ever gets truly irate when their core principles are violated, this is an example. You'd do no damage in comparison. But, I feel this is getting drug out too far...


Anyway, you have fun. My Skype is always up, and I'm getting tired of editing this reply over and over with the mentality "are they gonna decline it for that?"

 

[White Masquerade]

Oh, naw. I have no image of you. I'm a dominant perceiver, not judger, haha. I just took everything you said as it flew by; no conclusions here yet. Promise.


About your situation, I understand. I don't really know what's up, but it's best I don't. People gotta do, what people gotta do. If you need to leave, I wish you the best. About the feeling function thing, yeah, let's just put that on the back-burner. All of my sense are telling me, "NOOOOOOO!" Lol. I understand your reasoning, but I've learned to trust my intuitions, even though I can't exactly understand why.


Do your best! You know what site you can find me, if something ever comes up!