MBTI/Cognitive Functions

[White Masquerade]

MBTI/Cognitive Functions

Hello! I have thoroughly enjoyed my time here on this site and I have no one to thank but the cool, quirky, and unique people I've met throughout the forum. The community is a good one. One I'm glad to be a part of, so I'd like to give back if even just a bit. MBTI and Cognitive functions is a passion of mine and I would like to use what I know to help out others around here.


Many write off MBTI because the results are often inconsistent, they don't feel a test captures everything they are as a person, or think the test and it's questions are rubbish. On all three points, I completely agree. The MBTI is a bunch of foolishness. The test and its questions are crap, the results you get from them are probably incorrect, and a personality label absolutely cannot capture everything a person is. We are all unique. With that said, I want to make clear that Cognitive Functions are what people should be paying attention to; NOT MBTI. The MBTI is a poor tool that keeps from people what they really need to understand: the Cognitive functions.




I will answer to the best of my ability, questions anyone has about the MBTI or Cognitive functions. If you are comfortable with me "typing you", I can do that as well. When it comes to "typing", what I say, is not a final judgement. Really, I encourage you to study the functions for yourself and find what best fits. Only you, after taking a hard look at your habits, can tell what type you really are.


So come with your questions, personal opinions, whatever you'd like. I am open and only created this thread to help people learn more about themselves using a system I have a good understanding about. If you have a misconception about anything, I want to apologize in advance, because I will correct you on it. Lastly, this is a serious thread, so if you could please not joke around, I would appreciate it.

 

[Cross]

Hey,


I too had an interest in MBTI and later the cognitive functions associated with the 16 personalities.


Extroverted Intuition vs. Introverted Intuition never made any sense to me. Could you shed some light on it?

 

[Koi Miazaki]

I've been addicted to MBTI for about 4 months now I'm ENFP btw


Went to cognitive functions as well but not that deep into it. But yes, it's like the DNA of MBTI

 

[White Masquerade]

@Cross_Rhodes


Ne

Definitely. Out of Thinking, Feeling, and Sensing, Intuition I believe is the hardest to pick out between extroverted and introverted. That pair was the last one I understood! There are about 4-5 different ways to explain their difference, so I'll tell you one way and if it doesn't stick, feel free to ask for another.


To start, intuition is a gut-feeling/hunch. Whether extroverted or introverted, that's what it is.


Extroverted Intuition are gut-feeling/hunches, that expand from one thing to another. When you think about one topic, your mind brings in and pulls in ideas from other topics that relate to what you were first thinking about. This is almost effortless and natural to people with high extroverted intuition. These are the people who like to use similes. The ones who understand something by comparing it to another thing. They understand/explain Point A, by looking at its connection with Point B, C-1, D(x - AB + 6), E to the fourth, and F over the square root of 12.


For example. Here is how a Ne (Extroverted Intuition) user, might come to the gut-feeling/hunch, they are very smelly.

• I must be smelly. How? I don't know.
  
• John is staying away from me.
  
• Susan is staying away from me too.
  
• My deodorant was pretty low yesterday...
  
• Maybe I wasn't able to get much of it onto my underarm...think, think...who else did I meet and what did they do?
  
• Joshua covered his nose when I was outside...it didn't look like he was sick...maybe his dog gave him something...no...it was only when I came by.
  
• Laura didn't even give me the hug that she usually does this morning! That almost NEVER happens. She loves me!
  
• Omg. Wow. Yeah. I must totally smell.
  

^ You see that? With Ne, it is the random conclusion FIRST, then expanding out using different connections to support the claim. The higher the Ne in a person, the more "random" the connections are going to seem. As for the similes, you can just look at any of my discussion posts. I have high Ne. To explain something, I always, always, pull information from other topics to get my point across. It looks like I'm going off-topic, but that's what Ne is. You go off-topic to help you understand what's on-topic.


"Running an RP is like business when you think about it."


"The OOC is like a lion's den if you ask me."


^ The quickest way to pick an Ne-user, is when you hear them say seemingly "random" things like that. I assure you. A Ne-user is not stupid, misguided, or nuts. It may look like that to an outsider, but to the Ne-user, they know EXACTLY what they're talking about and why they said it.




Ni

Introverted Intuition are gut-feeling/hunches, that come from many different sources into one. It is the exact opposite of Ne. You look at many different things outside yourself, and based off what you see or experience, you form a hunch/get a gut-feeling. This happens constantly with people that have high introverted intuition. These are the people that are more sure in their hunches/gut-feelings. Ever met those people that are absolutely convicted with their ideas? That'd rather die before giving up how they see things? Those are the Ni (Introverted Intuition) users. it is easy to influence a Ne-users mind, since they are always making outward connections, but it is much harder to change a Ni-user's. They understand/explain by


A+B+C+D+E+F+G+H+I+J+K+L+M+N+O+P+Q+R+S+T+U+V+W+K+W+Y = Z <---See why it's so damn hard to change?


For example. Here is how a Ni (Introverted Intuition) user, might come to the gut-feeling/hunch, they are very smelly.

• Something is up, here.
  
• John is staying away from me.
  
• Susan is staying away from me too.
  
• My deodorant was low yesterday.
  
• I wasn't able to get much of it onto my underarm.
  
• Joshua covered his nose outside when he was near me.
  
• Laura didn't hug me either. That doesn't happen often.
  
• I see. So that's it. I smell.
  

^ You see. They come to the same conclusion as the Ne-user, but a firm conclusion is LAST. With Ni, a lot of the outside connections like Joshua's dog not getting him sick, DOES NOT HAPPEN! Ni is straight to the point. It uses what is seen around, to support the final conclusion. Its job is not to explore to find a tenuous answer like Ne, its job is to find out the facts and come to a solid answer based on those facts. As I don't have Ni, I can't comment on what a typical Ni-user would say, but they are more serious and firm when talking about their ideas. There are not a lot of "maybe-this or maybe-that," what they see is exactly what should be believed.


The easiest way to differentiate between users of the two, is offbeat/goofiness. The way Ne works, makes the person using it, look nuts. You get the feeling something is not quite right in their head, or they are playful and silly. They do things in a roundabout way. Ni users are the complete opposite of this. If the person is more controlled, steady, sure, and forceful with their hunches, you can be pretty certain they don't have Ne, but have Ni.


Once you get deep down into the bones of things. It is pretty interesting stuff, Cross! Once you start to see people really work in different ways, it is very enlightening!




@Koi Miazaki


Lol. Hello Koi! I am ENFP as well. I've been interested in MBTI/CF for about 3 years now. There was a point where I had ZERO clue about who I was. Like, I was doing things with and for other people, that didn't feel like I enjoyed at all. I would always think, "why am I doing this?"


Going into MBTI answered some of the questions, but still left me so confused. It was only after a few people suggested to go into Cognitive functions, that things started really clearing up! Everything about MBTI started making sense. I understood why I was feeling certain ways, what I was good at, what I was weak at, what I needed to work on, how another person might be thinking, and most of all, why I'm so dang random/distracted all the time!


It's cause I let my Extroverted Intuition run wild ALL THE TIME. ( ) I had nothing to keep it in check.


So, yes, Koi Miazaki. If you're still interested, take a look into cognitive functions. Once you get the hang of them, you will feel...empowered, I can say.

 

[Koi Miazaki]

@White Masquerade


Mhm mhm that's right! That's why I picture it like the DNA of MBTI hahaha. Yeahhh me NE overpowers everything!!! But I like it really. xD though it does have its uncommited and fickle consequences that puts me in situations where I run away from things I started owo. I mean, I don't want to. And I don't intend to (I'm fired up at the start)... But yea.. Sadly... NE does that


I think NE is a cute function though


My shocks! I'm so happy I met another ENFP. I haven't met another ENFP irl though (or at least from the people I forced to take the test)

 

[ClaveVesari]

Where would be a good start to uncover my preferred cognitive functions? Are there any specific questions I could ask myself to help? I apologize for shortness and vague curiosity.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Koi Miazaki


LOL. Forcing people to take the test. I have tried to get a few people to, but once they see it's like 50-80 questions, they are like, "Yeahhhhh....no thanks. Answer the rest for me!" (> )


*coughs* Oh my. Yes. I don't want to admit it but finishing something is a pain! I have to work really hard to stick to one thing. When I first joined this site, I was in maybe 7 role-plays at once >_>. I learned my lesson. I do like Ne too though! Just not when it doesn't let me sleep...


IRL I've only met one ENFP teacher and one ENFP student (both of them very cool), but I have met quite a few ENTP (they scare me). I know you'll eventually meet one. Keep looking! Check the end of every rainbow ( )




@ClaveVesari


Heya Clave. Instead of asking yourself questions, it's better to look at yourself from afar. Cognitive functions are all about information-gathering and decision-making, so think back to when you made an important choice or did something very stupid. Try to remember what you were thinking when you went though with those actions. Think of a time when you were at your best. Knocking down everything you were supposed to do and felt at the top of your game. Study the "whys" in those moments and your answers will lead you to what functions you naturally prefer.


Say you felt unstoppable while weaving in and out of traffic on the highway, at 120 MPH, while using no turning signals. I would bet everything one of your first two functions is Extraverted Sensation. These are the people that love new physical stimulation. Exciting events, lively clubs, etc.


There is something called Function Tandems, which will make things easier for you.


Extraverted Sensation (Se) is ALWAYS paired with Introverted Intuition (Ni)


Extraverted Thinking (Te) is ALWAYS paired with Introverted Feeling (Fi)


Introverted Sensation (Si) is ALWAYS paired with Extraverted Intuition (Ne)


Introverted Thinking (Ti) is ALWAYS paired with Extraverted Feeling (Fe)


So if you're sure you've found one of the pair, you don't even have to look for the other. You automatically have it on some level. Look at the functions for ENFP.

• Extraverted Intuition
  
• Introverted Feeling
  
• Extraverted Thinking
  
• Introverted Sensing
  

The pairs are always there. Your first function is what you do A LOT. It is effortless and near-automatic. Look for that one first.

 

[Koi Miazaki]

@White Masquerade


Yes. Haha forced. And I call them by their results too haha like "Hi INTJ friend #1!", or "Hi ISTP friend!" xD (jokingly of course. Idk if that's really their true MBTI)


OH MY SHOCKS!!! Saaaameee!!! I tend to join a lot of RP (especially if it doesn't start immediately), and when they all start at the same time... I lose track and I'm like, meh, I'm out of here... Which is BAD! >\\\<

 

[welian]

Oh man, I wish this site showed me my OLD results... I took an abridged form of the test and came out with ENFP. It's interesting, because the first time I took the same test on the same site a few years ago, I wasn't. I used to be an INTP.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Koi Miazaki


Lol. I bet the names get them upset. Rofl.


About the leaving RPs, ugh, yeah. I hated when that happened too. Though I have good news for you Koi! ENFP have Extroverted Thinking and once you get that going, it'll be easier for you to manage and stay in RPs. You're gonna be a super-organized, scatter-brain, lol! That's so freaky! I drool thinking about mastering my Te. I'm already getting there and it feels good! You can actually make your wacky ideas work =P.




@welian


Excellent. I am so glad you brought this up. That is one VERY big problem with the MBTI. According to Cognitive Function Theory/Carl Jung (Father of Function Theory), a person's type does not change!!!!!! Never, never! A person can develop their other functions, BUT their natural type does not change! I cringe when people say they have changed types or worse, they are two types at the same time! This is the nonsense and trouble MBTI is causing.


If you got INTP before and are getting ENFP now, it doesn't mean your type has changed. It means one of them is wrong. However knowing how MBTI operates, they could both be wrong. I'm going to explain what the MBTI really tests and why it is not the same as cognitive functions (briefly).


The MBTI is a preference test. It tests on 4 scales: E vs. I, N vs. S, T vs. F, and P vs. J. These are the questions they ask:

• E or I: Do you like to be around people or are you more alone?
  
• N or S: Are you imaginative or are you grounded and realistic?
  
• T or F: Are you close with people or do they see you as distant and rational?
  
• P or J: Are you organized and have a schedule or are you messy?
  

These are absolutely terrible questions. People can both be social and anti-social. People can both be imaginative and realistic. People can both be rational/detached and friendly with others. People can both be scheduled and messy.


The MBTI tests how you feel, at the time you take the test. If you just got out of a bad breakup, what do you think you're going to test as? Extroverted or Introverted? If you are going for a master's degree and study almost every single night, what do you think you're going to test as? Thinking or Feeling?


The MBTI Preference Test, tells you what you -look like- in that period of time. Whether what you -look like- at time of you taking the test, equals your real type, is the question. I just notice that the result MBTI gives you, is often not your real type. I have tested as INTJ, ISFP, ESFP, INFP, ISTP, INTP...it's a mess.


Think about the workplaces that give you your role according to the MBTI test. You are really ENTJ, but because of some recent life event, you test as an ISFP. Do you see how that mistake can ruin your next few years? I do not recommend the MBTI test to make ANY major decisions. Sure, it's a fun, cool, little test to take, but really, that's all it's for: for fun. Knowing what your preferences are for the next few weeks is useless because preferences change.


So Welian! Please, please, look for your functions!

 

[welian]

@White Masquerade


.... The alphabet no longer looks real.

 

[White Masquerade]

@White Masquerade
.... The alphabet no longer looks real.

LMAO! Yeah, you were totally trying to understand English using Chinese characters (o'v'o)

 

[Pariah Stark]

Cogito, ergo sum

​

INTP Master Race.


In almost every describable way, I fit the INTP archetype. What is imperfect is never good enough, what is incomplete is never acceptable and if something is wrong in the slightest way, it is entirely incorrect. What I deal with is the struggle to compromise with what 'has to be' good enough, the highest standard I can get reliably and of course settling for the most correct answer available.


And, even then, if I disagree strongly enough, then the conflict isn't worth the effort to resolve. There is a forest beyond the trees, but one ill-placed stump is enough to ruin it all. That is the way of an INTP.

 

[White Masquerade]

@The Architect


Haha. Well said. That covers the gist of them. Though I don't know about Master Race. Like all types, INTP have a few issues. (>u>)( )(^.^)(:B)

 

[Pariah Stark]

We found the stump...


Well, one of them.

 

[Koi Miazaki]

@White Masquerade


Actually I don't know hpw they feel about me calling names haha. They seem to be ok with it. I dunno haha


Oooh yeah TE! It would be so awesome to be an organized scattered-brain!!! I need to have that :<


Especially coz I'm working in a call center and even if my communication is great, I'm having a hard time organizing my thoughts and I end up just saying whatever comes to my mind. So TE would be soooooo great :/


Haha good for you that you're already growing TE. Is there any tips to work on it? Or is it just natural to grow it after some time?

 

[White Masquerade]

@White Masquerade[/URL]
Actually I don't know hpw they feel about me calling names haha. They seem to be ok with it. I dunno haha


Oooh yeah TE! It would be so awesome to be an organized scattered-brain!!! I need to have that :<


Especially coz I'm working in a call center and even if my communication is great, I'm having a hard time organizing my thoughts and I end up just saying whatever comes to my mind. So TE would be soooooo great :/


Haha good for you that you're already growing TE. Is there any tips to work on it? Or is it just natural to grow it after some time?

It's a little mix of both. It will grow after some time, but you have to be open to it. When you finally get sick of being disorganized, it's going to start knocking on your door. Then it's up to you to open that door and let it in. Making to-do-lists (and actually doing them, lol), setting up a schedule for the day (and sticking to it, xD ), promising yourself to do X at a certain time and actually following through with it...these things will get you in the swing of TE.


Really, anything that has to do with creating a plan, sticking to it, and keeping it on track, will help with TE. Where you work is actually a good opportunity to grow TE. Some things you can do:

• "I'll call 20 people in 30 minutes!"
  
• "How can I explain to this person what I want them to get from me, in a clear and understandable way?"
  
• After my next two calls, I'm taking a break for 5 minutes, then right after, I'll make 10 more calls."
  

^This is great practice for TE, but you have to be open to organizing yourself. Don't be scared to try it, Koi! I'll be honest right now. You will trip up sometimes, you will give up sometimes, and other times you will only make it halfway through, but each time you attempt to build TE, the closer and closer you'll get to perfecting it.


Managing money, debating people about different topics (works for TI too), running a massive RP...those are some other great ways to build TE. These things force you to learn how to keep things smooth, clear, running, and in order. It's no coincidence that most of the executives in charge of the really big companies, have some form of TE.

 

[Koi Miazaki]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]It's a little mix of both. It will grow after some time, but you have to be open to it. When you finally get sick of being disorganized, it's going to start knocking on your door. Then it's up to you to open that door and let it in. Making to-do-lists (and actually doing them, lol), setting up a schedule for the day (and sticking to it, xD ), promising yourself to do X at a certain time and actually following through with it...these things will get you in the swing of TE.
Really, anything that has to do with creating a plan, sticking to it, and keeping it on track, will help with TE. Where you work is actually a good opportunity to grow TE. Some things you can do:

• "I'll call 20 people in 30 minutes!"
  
• "How can I explain to this person what I want them to get from me, in a clear and understandable way?"
  
• After my next two calls, I'm taking a break for 5 minutes, then right after, I'll make 10 more calls."
  

^This is great practice for TE, but you have to be open to organizing yourself. Don't be scared to try it, Koi! I'll be honest right now. You will trip up sometimes, you will give up sometimes, and other times you will only make it halfway through, but each time you attempt to build TE, the closer and closer you'll get to perfecting it.


Managing money, debating people about different topics (works for TI too), running a massive RP...those are some other great ways to build TE. These things force you to learn how to keep things smooth, clear, running, and in order. It's no coincidence that most of the executives in charge of the really big companies, have some form of TE.

[/QUOTE]
I've made my own rp a couple of times... But I guess it never got to 20 pages owo....


Actually meh, I've created a LOT of big projects that requires resppnsibility. I just loooovee starting stuff I cannot finish. Haha I guess others lasted, most have not hahaha. Ok I'll try to develop TE soon too hahaha good luck to me. Seems to me like my to do list is not important to me hahahaha thankies a lot xD

 

[White Masquerade]

@Koi Miazaki


No worries =P. You are aware of yourself and that's good! Really good! I have the feeling you'll be just fine, Koi. You're welcome and good luck to you! Thank you for speaking with me btw.

 

[Koi Miazaki]

@Koi Miazaki[/URL]
No worries =P. You are aware of yourself and that's good! Really good! I have the feeling you'll be just fine, Koi. You're welcome and good luck to you! Thank you for speaking with me btw.

Thanks a lot


Hope to rp with you sometime

 

[BlacklegSanji]

I remember taking this test (didn't know it was called the MBTI test) because I had to for a career class, lol tried taking it a nice few times and I always got INTJ and I believe this is a pretty accurate statement about my personality

 

[Pariah Stark]

The flaw I've always seen with this test and most like it is that most people don't see the archtypes as guidelines more than strict divisions. Right from Myers, this test is based off of the most common tandems and patterns. It is possible to go outside the boundaries and vary while still fitting the type. Normally, you're given one type in addition to a secondary and further tested for psychological functions - all of which make it considerably more accurate. Being true to one type, like my bear-absolute INTP is rare.

 

[welian]

The problem with this test is that it is absolute garbage, as people cannot be measured in this manner. People do change and learn over time, right to their core.


That being said, I fucking love bullshit like personality tests and astrology and I think they are quite useful for character development in stories.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Kanra23


Hey Kanra! I hope you didn't really pick a career off of it (' :| )


@The Architect


Yeah, you get into Nature + Nurture. The most these personality indicators can give you, is the Nature. Nurture is going to be different for everybody, as we all have different life experiences. If a personality description says you're probably going to be famous, scrawny, anti-social, or a billionaire because of X traits...run 1 million miles in the other direction. It is rubbish. Being born with a certain inclination to think and feel in certain ways, doesn't guarantee anybody anything. In your case, yeah, being really-really close to your type can happen (that is very rare). Just depends on how life hits you. For myself, I use all the functions of the ENFP in that order, but I am not like the typical descriptions. I am more low-key, calm, and ordered. Even though it takes a lot of work, I prefer to lead with my Extroverted Thinking, rather than Extroverted Intuition.


Regarding testing for functions, I don't even think that's a good practice. I'd vote for instead of testing, to teach people how to find what fits for themselves. Alas, MBTI/Personality tests are a huge business, so it makes sense they'd want to maximize their profit margins. Not worth it actually showing people the correct way to do things, if it means less money for more time/work.




@welian


(>u>) I love that bullsh*t too (guilty pleasure). I agree, they make for excellent backdrops to make characters over. I haven't actively done it, but I'm sure subconsciously, all of the characters I create follow some kind of personality.


Good stuff you keep bringing up. People do change over time, even to their core. The Function theory allows for this, as people have different levels of proficiency with how they use their functions. Like I said to Architect, Extroverted Thinking is not first for the ENFP, but if they work at it hard/long enough, they will use it very well. It will just take A LOT of work. So they could very well end up not being "scatter-brained" in life. Even so, at the end of the day, their natural tendency is to use Extroverted Intuition first. Whether someone chooses to be "themselves" or work to fit into another "image", is up to that person. All we're talking here is natural inclinations.


it's just that most times when you go against where you naturally "flow", it causes you to question who you really are. or you're not quite happy with what you're doing. You feel a little incomplete or unfulfilled. Like something is missing.

 

[White Masquerade]

@ClaveVesari


Also, I forgot to say this. If you are looking for functions, I can already see you have Introverted Intuition, from when we spoke over in the philosophy thread. That means you have Extroverted Sensation, because of Function pairs. Now you just need to find your other pair, to make four.