Moon Rabbit
Mochi-pounding Celestial Guardian
Now, I know a bunch of you probably came in here expecting a little ditty on how to deal with or get rid of characters labeled with these "types". Well, that's not what this thread is about.
What I'm actually here to talk about are the terms themselves. I know basically everyone uses them, and the general meanings of them are the same but....let's be real. The reality of it is, these terms aren't very good for anyone who wants to be taken seriously.
The only thing that can be agreed upon entirely by all people who use the terms is that the targets it is used on
a) are bad
b) Are "too perfect/overpowered/tragic/etc"
Honestly, that's a very broad thing and to try to keep characters you don't like out by saying "no mary sues" or whatever, is just plain silly.
Everyone has their own opinions on things, and all settings and genres and etc. etc. have their own sorts of guidelines for what is and is not acceptable.
There are characters we like, and characters we do not like. Some people may disagree with us on which traits we like or don't like in a charcter. Person A might say your character is a Mary Sue so you should get lost. But then you could take the same application over to person B and they would tell you how great it is and welcome you in.
Even actual canon characters from works have many "Mary Sue" qualities that people claim are awful, but are still greatly loved characters considered well-written and awesome by many, many people.
My point here is, Mary Sue and other terms like it are very broad, blurred lines terms that can mean totally different guidelines from one person to the next. In the end, they really don't mean much of anything other than "don't make a bad character", but they don't tell what "bad" is.
The terms are lazy. To tell someone their character is a "Mary Sue" and needs to be fixed is as bad as, or basically the equivalent of, telling them their character is bad and then not giving them any constructive criticism. "Mary Sue" is not constructive criticism, it means basically nothing.
These terms are lazy. Rather than use them, why not ACTUALLY think about what you don't like about a character? Think of what qualities you want to be avoided when people hand in applications to you.
Rather than say "This character is too Mary Sueish. We need you to try again" or "No Mary Sues!" try giving some actual qualities that will be an automatic no accept. Don't be lazy, actually put some substance into it!
In all honesty, when I see these terms on a board or list of rules I tend to steer clear of wherever they are because it usually means laziness, elitist, unfairness/bias, and/or control freaks are afoot.
Just thought I'd share, shed some light on my views, and let the topic up for debate/discussion
What I'm actually here to talk about are the terms themselves. I know basically everyone uses them, and the general meanings of them are the same but....let's be real. The reality of it is, these terms aren't very good for anyone who wants to be taken seriously.
The only thing that can be agreed upon entirely by all people who use the terms is that the targets it is used on
a) are bad
b) Are "too perfect/overpowered/tragic/etc"
Honestly, that's a very broad thing and to try to keep characters you don't like out by saying "no mary sues" or whatever, is just plain silly.
Everyone has their own opinions on things, and all settings and genres and etc. etc. have their own sorts of guidelines for what is and is not acceptable.
There are characters we like, and characters we do not like. Some people may disagree with us on which traits we like or don't like in a charcter. Person A might say your character is a Mary Sue so you should get lost. But then you could take the same application over to person B and they would tell you how great it is and welcome you in.
Even actual canon characters from works have many "Mary Sue" qualities that people claim are awful, but are still greatly loved characters considered well-written and awesome by many, many people.
My point here is, Mary Sue and other terms like it are very broad, blurred lines terms that can mean totally different guidelines from one person to the next. In the end, they really don't mean much of anything other than "don't make a bad character", but they don't tell what "bad" is.
The terms are lazy. To tell someone their character is a "Mary Sue" and needs to be fixed is as bad as, or basically the equivalent of, telling them their character is bad and then not giving them any constructive criticism. "Mary Sue" is not constructive criticism, it means basically nothing.
These terms are lazy. Rather than use them, why not ACTUALLY think about what you don't like about a character? Think of what qualities you want to be avoided when people hand in applications to you.
Rather than say "This character is too Mary Sueish. We need you to try again" or "No Mary Sues!" try giving some actual qualities that will be an automatic no accept. Don't be lazy, actually put some substance into it!
In all honesty, when I see these terms on a board or list of rules I tend to steer clear of wherever they are because it usually means laziness, elitist, unfairness/bias, and/or control freaks are afoot.
Just thought I'd share, shed some light on my views, and let the topic up for debate/discussion