Martial Arts and shields

P

Persell

Ten Thousand Club
I apologize if this has been asked before, but I can't find anything about it, anywhere, though I could have sworn I read something...


Do shields interfere with the use of Martial Arts styles? I can't seem to find anything saying that they do, which seems a little odd to me.


Which brings me to another question... does anyone know of any styles, fan-made or otherwise, that involve the use of shields? One of my players is interested in the idea, and it would be helpful to have something to go on even if he would prefer to create his own.


EDIT: I just found a few here...
 
Crimson Pentacle Blade Style uses shields. One with the directions is even called "Western Shield Posture" and gives the martial artist an extra +1 DV bonus when using shields. Its on p64 Scroll of the Monk.
 
There is nothing in RAW that says a shield can't be used with a MA. They aren't weapons or armor. However, they should probably be treated as armor for the sake of style.
 
Gylthinel said:
Shields would prohibit the use of any martial art that doesn't specifically allow them to be used.
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Intuitively, one would think that armor would be prohibitive to many martial arts, and yet many martial arts in Exalted allow the use of armor. None, to the best of my knowledge, actually prohibit a shield. Historically, the western martial arts that developed between the 15th and 17th centuries, before falling into obscurity, incorporated the use of shields, armor, and weapons like swords or staves, so it's pretty easy to see how armored styles in Exalted could do the same.


If the use of a shield kept in line with the martial art's theme, I don't see any reason to exclude it out of hand. RAW, even if it's out of them, it doesn't matter - they're not prohibited, so they're allowed.
 
If there are styles that specifically allow the use of shields (such as Crimson Pentacle Blade), my general reaction wouldn't be then to say that if it doesn't state it doesn't that it does...since there is something that states it does...then one should assume it doesn't unless it does say so, IMO. *shrug* And now that I've probably confounded people with Thog logic...


In short, in games I run, generally, I assume that shields are not compatible with a Martial Art unless otherwise stated. I generally suspect I would allow them with armored styles, too, though, with the Buckler being allowed to styles that allow light armor, the Target to ones that allow at least medium armor, and the Tower to only those that allow heavy armors.


Then again, I've never had anyone ask.
 
Generally I allow shields with styles which are fully compatable with armour. Otherwise its a no unless the shield specifically permits shields (such as crimson pentacle, which is incompatable with armour but does say so).
 
Thanks for the help so far. The player will probably be creating his own style, but those styles do give us something to go on... which will be particularly important since neither of us have a lot of experience with Exalted, much less creating and balancing Charms.
 
HowlingCoyote said:
Intuitively, one would think that armor would be prohibitive to many martial arts, and yet many martial arts in Exalted allow the use of armor. None, to the best of my knowledge, actually prohibit a shield.
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And few martial arts allow you to use boulders, armchairs, and stiffly braided hair as weapons either. And they are neither weapons nor armor. Yet, they cannot be used, despite this omission. I.e. look at the rules that say what CAN be used, and don't look for rules that say what CAN'T be used.


Though, I agree that it's reasonable to allow an appropriate martial art to use shields. But, I don't know that such a martial art exists in Exalted cannon.
 
Gylthinel said:
And few martial arts allow you to use boulders, armchairs, and stiffly braided hair as weapons either. And they are neither weapons nor armor. Yet, they cannot be used, despite this omission. I.e. look at the rules that say what CAN be used, and don't look for rules that say what CAN'T be used.
Though, I agree that it's reasonable to allow an appropriate martial art to use shields. But, I don't know that such a martial art exists in Exalted cannon.
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As has been mentioned before, at the least Terrestrial style Crimson Pentacle Blade specifically allows such, and even has charms that either require a shield or effect a shield. It also explicitly mentions allowing shields, but disallows armor.


Of course, looking at the core book, Shields are within the subheading of armor specifically. Looks at page 374. Right in the first paragraph of the armor section shields are specifically mentioned. Further Body Armor, Helmets and Shields are all subsections of the larger Armor section. It's quite possible to argue that shields are thus allowed with styles that allow armor, or those that specifically allow shields, and not by styles that don't allow armor or don't allow shields specifically if they disallow armor.


I'll admit, the shield issue doesn't come up often in our games. The only shield users we've had have been a Twilight dandy doctor who fought with a significantly enchanted Short Daiklaive and a buckler, and a Dawn Caste who practices a combination of Solar Melee and Crimson Pentacle Blade. The first does so for stylistic reasons, using the buckler in many of his defensive stunts, then counter attacking with his short daiklaive while a foe's weapon is occupied with his buckler. The Dawn does so primarily so he can use Unassailable Aegis of Dual Armament. Otherwise, common soldiers make heavy use of such, but their Heroic, Exalted, Godblooded or Spiritual officers...not so much.
 
HowlingCoyote said:
Would you be willing to post the style? I, for one, would be interested in seeing it.
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I'm certainly willing to, but chances are I won't be the one doing most of the work, so... I'll ask him first. I doubt he'll object, though.


But we haven't even been able to start yet, so don't count on seeing anything any time soon...
 
I was looking at a preview on DriveThruRPG of "Debris from the Fallen Races" and noticed that the Flame and Stone style is traditionally practiced with a shield. Not only that but the form charm of the style actually raises the bonus given to shields. Thought I might mention it since it seems around the same lines.
 
Gylthinel said:
Achilles from "Troy" was awesome w/ his spear/shield combo. I'd love a martial art based on that.
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Check out Crimson Pentacle Blade. Polearms (which includes spears) + Shields. :)
 
The spartans in 300 also kicked ass with a unarmed sword + shield combo (and a cloak)...
 
Sorry Cyl, most post was actually an incredibly delayed response to the request for shields + swords ^.^
 
Well, one thing you can always do, once you master a style anyhow, is take Master's Hands Envisioned Anew and add a new weapon to an existing style. You want swords with Crimson Pentacle Blade? Get up to 5 Essence, master the style, and then, pop, let's add a sword type.


Of course, doing so for Celestial and Sidereal styles is harder, what with the Essence 6 and 7 requirements respectively.
 
Dracogryff said:
Gylthinel said:
Achilles from "Troy" was awesome w/ his spear/shield combo. I'd love a martial art based on that.
Click to expand...
Check out Crimson Pentacle Blade. Polearms (which includes spears) + Shields. :)
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Sux.

Well, one thing you can always do, once you master a style anyhow, is take Master's Hands Envisioned Anew and add a new weapon to an existing style. You want swords with Crimson Pentacle Blade? Get up to 5 Essence, master the style, and then, pop, let's add a sword type.
Of course, doing so for Celestial and Sidereal styles is harder, what with the Essence 6 and 7 requirements respectively.
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Not familiar w/ the charm.
 
jeriausx said:
There already is a MA that uses a spear and shield....Solar Melee.
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Not everyone wants to be a Solar. Frankly, they're my least favorite splat, though despite that I've played quite a few of them. Usually because we like to see variety in the PC spread, and it's always fun to be on one end or the other of a Solar Bond.


That said, Dammit, I really, really want to play my Lunar doctor. I STILL haven't had the chant to seriously play a Lunar.


As to Master's Hands Envisioned Anew, it found on page 157 of Lord of Creation. It's in Saibok Gauto's writeup, but gives the full rules for the charm. The DB writeups in that have some nice custom charms that are generally well written. That's one of them. :) It's a Terrestrial Martial Arts charm for Terrestrial Styles, with 5 Essence, 5 Martial Arts and mastery of the style it effects. For Celestial Styles it also requires full mastery, but is 6 Essence, 6 Martial Arts. For Sidereal Styles it continues to require full mastery, but is 7 Essence, 7 Martial Arts.
 
Time for the stupid question of the year... what is "Lord of Creation"? Is it one of the various unsundry web-only splats? I can't seem to keep up with all of them.


**Edit**


I also wouldn't allow a charm that let you add form weapons to martial arts. 3/4 of what makes a martial art cool is it's style, and a big part of that style is it's form weapons. Once you jack with that, you jack with the style of the martial art.... I wouldn't allow it.
 
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