Manses and Cross Planar Travel

[Jimborg]

Now, we've seen from MoEP: Abyssals, that Hearthstones from an Underworld Manse have technical difficulties in creation, turning into useless pebbles, Abyssal manses being the sole exception, IIRC.


Does that mean that Hearthstones from Manses in Malfeas have problems in Creation or is this the living essence vs. dead essence issue again?


Do similar issues occur with Autochonian Manses?

 

[Jagane]

There are no Autochthonian manses. The body of the maker is too different, there are manses that are dedicated to Autochthon in creation, but that's mainly a prayer effect from them than anything else.


"The geomancy of Autochthonia is not like that of Creation. As such, there are no equivalents to demesnes or manses within the body of the Machine God." p.94 Manual of Exalted Power 6 - The Alchemicals


Though that really doesn't make much since since his yozi bretheren have been able to make their own manses on themselves, Maybe it's because if Autochthon's disease?

 

[Catatonik]

I always thought it was a result of Autochthons reshaping of himself over time. One of the variouis refinements he made, changing the way his Locations of Power operate in contrast to his siblings.

 

[terrormortus]

For the Malfeas Issue I would put my money on it being a living essence/dead essence issue. I'm basing this on the fact certain Malfean artifacts can suck essence from creation itself without problems.

 

[Kyeudo]

I think they were just trying to avoid having to make six new lists of Heathstones, which is a cop out. Autochthon has an equivalent to dragon-lines and Essence is Essence. Just turn a Twilight loose in Autobot's guts and he'll make a manse there, come Hell or high water.

 

[Catatonik]

For the Malfeas Issue I would put my money on it being a living essence/dead essence issue. I'm basing this on the fact certain Malfean artifacts can suck essence from creation itself without problems.

I'm pretty sure that is correct, I can't remember where but i think Malfean Hearthstones work in Creation but not the Underworld.

 

[Plague of Hats]

I think they were just trying to avoid having to make six new lists of Heathstones, which is a cop out.

In the extremely unlikely event that this was the case in First Edition, they wasted a sizable chunk of wordcount talking about how Autochthon is different just so they could save slightly more wordcount not listing a bunch of toys. As far as Second Edition goes, this is pretty much not the case, as Elemental Cores amount to six new types of hearthstones, with an attendant, though necessarily small, list.

Autochthon has an equivalent to dragon-lines and Essence is Essence.

"Dragon-Blooded and Solars are both Exalted, so why don't they both have a 4m perfect parry?" Autochthon is different because he's different. You might not like the way in which he is different, but none of his differences are because the writers are lazy.

Just turn a Twilight loose in Autobot's guts and he'll make a manse there, come Hell or high water.

Sure, but that would have more to do with Twilight ingenuity than Autocthon's strange spiritual physiology.

 

[Kyeudo]

Sure' date=' but that would have more to do with Twilight ingenuity than Autocthon's strange spiritual physiology.[/quote']
Alchemical Craft Charms are just as potent, if not more so, than Solar Craft Charms. If a Solar can build it, an Alchemical can.


If you can build a manse to channel the Essence of Malfeas, Cecelyne, or Adorjan, why not Autochthon? If you can channel the dead Essence of the Neverborn into a Hearthstone, why not Autochthon? He's less warped than his sibling and ex-siblings.

 

[vegetalss4]

I think it isn't so much


Twilight: the essence is twisted, but if i built the manse like this it should work. Which an Alchemical could do just as well if it is possible, as


Twilight: the essence is twisted, time to change that *use shaping attacks to change the essence flow locally*

 

[Quchu]

Maybe Autochthon's Essence infrastructure is too efficient to allow for meaningful demesnes. If that's the case, you would have to compete with a Primordial's metaphysical genius to tap significant amounts of Essence from his own system. I think using rechargeable batteries would be far easier. :|

 

[Plague of Hats]

Sure' date=' but that would have more to do with Twilight ingenuity than Autocthon's strange spiritual physiology.[/quote']
Alchemical Craft Charms are just as potent, if not more so, than Solar Craft Charms. If a Solar can build it, an Alchemical can.

Did I say an Alchemical couldn't? No. Though I would certainly say an Alchemical wouldn't, at least not without extensive exposure to Creation and a healthy disrespect for his Machine-God's body. Leaping ahead and untrammeled growth are cancerous, that's what the Sickness is; an Alchemical should be content with a Municipal Essence Core Reactor.

If you can build a manse to channel the Essence of Malfeas, Cecelyne, or Adorjan, why not Autochthon? If you can channel the dead Essence of the Neverborn into a Hearthstone, why not Autochthon? He's less warped than his sibling and ex-siblings.

You're getting kind of slippery with your arguments, here. Essence Cores and the Reactors they come from are channeling Autochthonian Essence. They just don't work quite like manses or demesnes.
You probably can't get an Adorjani hearthstone, either. The geomancy that produces demesnes and allows for manses or manse-like structures all appears to be predicated on world-bodies or very similar frameworks. Adorjan doesn't have a world-body and her souls aren't tied up fueling a geomantic engine.

 

[Kyeudo]

Did I say an Alchemical couldn't? No. Though I would certainly say an Alchemical wouldn't, at least not without extensive exposure to Creation and a healthy disrespect for his Machine-God's body. Leaping ahead and untrammeled growth are cancerous, that's what the Sickness is; an Alchemical should be content with a Municipal Essence Core Reactor.

One Word: Apostate.


I don't mind a "No sane Autochthonian would dare tamper with Autochthon's geomancy" prohibition. What I mind is a "No, there is no way to make demenses or manses in Autochthon" prohibition, especially when an Essence Core Reactor is essentially a manse that just taps an Exalt instead of a Primordial.

You probably can't get an Adorjani hearthstone, either. The geomancy that produces demesnes and allows for manses or manse-like structures all appears to be predicated on world-bodies or very similar frameworks. Adorjan doesn't have a world-body and her souls aren't tied up fueling a geomantic engine.

CoCD: Malfeas is very clear on Manses. Any of the Yozis, even those that don't manifest as part of the landscape, can have demenses and manses dedicated to them. Their Essence is so vast it just leaks out and pools somewhere.

 

[Plague of Hats]

I don't mind a "No sane Autochthonian would dare tamper with Autochthon's geomancy" prohibition. What I mind is a "No, there is no way to make demenses or manses in Autochthon" prohibition, especially when an Essence Core Reactor is essentially a manse that just taps an Exalt instead of a Primordial.

Whereas I don't mind declarations of impossibility on matters of interesting difference, such as Autochthon's geomantic nature or lack thereof, because any character or player determined enough can do it anyway, while the story that is not specific to a given table revels in its own coherency. But I certainly do look askance at efforts to homogenize some of the most interesting and weird parts of the setting, especially for the sake of background toys like manses and hearthstones.

CoCD: Malfeas is very clear on Manses. Any of the Yozis, even those that don't manifest as part of the landscape, can have demenses and manses dedicated to them. Their Essence is so vast it just leaks out and pools somewhere.

Harumph.

 

[Joni-san]

I think using rechargeable batteries would be far easier. :|

Isn't there an artifact that's basically this?

 

[MorkaisChosen]

I think using rechargeable batteries would be far easier. :|

Isn't there an artifact that's basically this?

MoEP: Abyssals, page 215: three different types of Gemstone Essence Batteries.

 

[vegetalss4]

theres also those Energy cores* in MoEP:Alchemicals


*not sure on the name.

 

[Virjigorm]

It seems like there's a middle ground in the manse debate here.


There are no "naturally occurring" demenses in Autocthon's body because the Maker's genius and obsession with efficiency shapes his body to make it that way. That's not to say that a clever exalt couldn't tap the Essence conduits and resource veins and configure them in a geomantically auspicious way (which also pleases the Autocthonian gods and subgods) to create a stable demense. After that, capping it with a manse would be relatively easy. This is not necessarily an affront to Autocthon, it is just not a configuration his subroutines are programmed to manifest.


As for why alchemicals (even apostates) don't do this, it's because they've never seen a manse until the breaching of the Seal of Eight Divinities. They just haven't had the idea to copy since they've always lived in a world where such things aren't done.


I'm not trying to strip away the interesting differences between setting pieces with this, but it's the solution that makes sense to me. If demenses are a natural part of Primordial physiology, then the lack of such in Autocthonia is something I would attribute to the Maker's control of his physiology. As for the hearthstones that could come of a manse like this, I would base them on the alchemical castes (magic materials) and ,obvioulsy, the elements of Autocthonia.


If any st's like this idea, you may also like the bit I mentioned about pleasing the local gods when crafting the first demense in Autocthonia. I would make this a very central part of a story involving this process.


hope something in there makes sense.

 

[Kyeudo]

It seems like there's a middle ground in the manse debate here.
There are no "naturally occurring" demenses in Autocthon's body because the Maker's genius and obsession with efficiency shapes his body to make it that way. That's not to say that a clever exalt couldn't tap the Essence conduits and resource veins and configure them in a geomantically auspicious way (which also pleases the Autocthonian gods and subgods) to create a stable demense. After that, capping it with a manse would be relatively easy. This is not necessarily an affront to Autocthon, it is just not a configuration his subroutines are programmed to manifest.


As for why alchemicals (even apostates) don't do this, it's because they've never seen a manse until the breaching of the Seal of Eight Divinities. They just haven't had the idea to copy since they've always lived in a world where such things aren't done.


I'm not trying to strip away the interesting differences between setting pieces with this, but it's the solution that makes sense to me. If demenses are a natural part of Primordial physiology, then the lack of such in Autocthonia is something I would attribute to the Maker's control of his physiology. As for the hearthstones that could come of a manse like this, I would base them on the alchemical castes (magic materials) and ,obvioulsy, the elements of Autocthonia.


If any st's like this idea, you may also like the bit I mentioned about pleasing the local gods when crafting the first demense in Autocthonia. I would make this a very central part of a story involving this process.


hope something in there makes sense.

See, this is the sort of logic that I would have liked to be cannon. Not a "this is impossible", but a "No one has thought of this yet because".

 

[Plague of Hats]

See, this is the sort of logic that I would have liked to be cannon. Not a "this is impossible", but a "No one has thought of this yet because".

You're complaining about canonical proscriptions that don't actually exist!