Other Is it more advantageous to be the protagonist of...

[Murdergurl]

You can't compare ancient people swinging wooden objects for shoulder development to modern science and equipment being used to strengthen all three heads of your shoulders.

I can compare whatever i want. We're talking about fictional settings. So all points are as valid as they are invalid.

Weight training existed since ancient times. Legionnaires in Rome were known to throw javelins in training that are twice the weight of normal javelins to develop the upper body. But do you really think those cavemen can compete against an expert coach who trains modern Olympians in throwing javelins?

Never met a caveman, nor an expert coach. But seeing as how a Neanderthal is closer to ape than human, they probably had considerably more physical strength right fromt eh get-go. But this is a gross digression from the topic at hand.


You are, in fact, missing my point entirely that Guts is an analog to Cloud Strife in terms of weaponry and ability. How they got to that point is irrelevant, as it is included in their home-setting, and thats just their universe. Who cares how realistic it is? If we shove out anythingunrealistic, the entire premise of both genres dissapears.

My point is that the reach of extremity is equi-infinite in both genres and exemplifying that the same tropes and conditions are irrelevant to the skin of the story. So far, you have shone nothing to prove otherwise.

Meanwhile, you got Thanos of the Marvel Universe, a sci fi setting, turning back time with one of the infinity stones to easily turn Mister Wukong into his great monkey pet.

Need I bring up Lovecraftian lore? I mean, if anything goes here, let's talk about the slumbering Azathoth that heralds the end of all existence if he wakes.

But the idea of measuring one fiction against another is a detraction from the original premise of this thread. If we are devolving to that, then this whole repertoire is just getting stupid. I could write up my own fiction right here and now to trump any further argument. and then the next person can counter, and then the next in turn... ad infinitum.

Thus, AGAIN, proving my point that sci-fi and fantasy are, in essence, the same thing

 

[AaronMk]

Well sure, but the protagonist needs to be the driving force of the narrative. I can't think of anyone that drove Endgame harder than the man that wiped out half of sentient life.

Not necessarily. Under the Campbellian structure the hero(es) have to still deny the Call To Action before they follow through. There are of course more than one way to tell a story still as there are more than one ways to skin a cat. And all Marvel films exist in a continuum that exist to satisfy the most perverted people in existence: Wiki nerds.

If the anything, a protag and antag exist in connection to move a story along.

 

[Sir Les Paul]

Not necessarily. Under the Campbellian structure the hero(es) have to still deny the Call To Action before they follow through. There are of course more than one way to tell a story still as there are more than one ways to skin a cat. And all Marvel films exist in a continuum that exist to satisfy the most perverted people in existence: Wiki nerds.

If the anything, a protag and antag exist in connection to move a story along.

Mmm, no, not really.

Even in Campbellian structure, the denial of the Call To Action is one of the steps in the Hero's Journey (though not always necessary). It's just one stage (of seventeen) that the protagonist progresses.

The protagonist is the character that drives the plot forward. The first protagonists were of Greek origin and had unique relationships with the chorus, often literally narrating the story. They also weren't even heroes in the traditional sense that they weren't divine or semi-divine.

The "proto-protagonist" (if you will) didn't have an antagonist and was defined by its purpose of progressing the story.

You could juggle around narrotology as much as you want to find some niche explanation, but that's only intentionally neglecting the core dynamic here.

The protagonist is the character (or characters) most responsible for driving the narrative.

The antagonist(s) directly oppose the protagonist(s) and their goals, not necessarily opposing the progression of the story but instead the goals, livelihood, or life in general of the protagonist.

The relationship between the two isn't necessarily equal. A story can have multiple protagonists, they're deuteragonists or some variant thereof. A story can have countless antagonists. Sometimes, they can even change roles.

What decides that role is the relationship to the story and that is primarily decided by the author. We can alter the way we see a story in any which way you want, but when we revert to these more standard definitions and relationships, we'll be back to this exact understanding.

Of course, it's always fun to experiment with a different structure.