Impressions of Strength + Relentless Lunar Fury

[Unforgiven]

I've been looking at the charms, and I wondering about the following. I read that you can use the charm Impressions of Strength during a Relentless Lunar Fury for 2 motes, adding one of the specials to all attacks. I think it clearly states that you can still activate the charm in question even though it's already given by Relentless Lunar Fury.


That means that I can apply the Rock to Pebbles Attitude to all my attacks, but should I decide to activate the charm again, would I be able to do so 3 times, or 2 more times (I have essence 5)

 

[Sherwood]

If I'm reading it right, you want to apply the affects of the Charm twice (or more) in one action.  As a ST, I would say no to that.  One bonus of RLF is being able to combo multiple Charms without having to spend points on a combo, or take the time to activate one at a time.  So, you have the effect of RLF running, get the Rock to Pebbles on your attacks, and have your action open to attack with another die adder, such as a Dex Excellency.


That's my take on it, for what it's worth.

 

[Unforgiven]

If I'm reading it right, you want to apply the affects of the Charm twice (or more) in one action.  As a ST, I would say no to that.  One bonus of RLF is being able to combo multiple Charms without having to spend points on a combo, or take the time to activate one at a time.  So, you have the effect of RLF running, get the Rock to Pebbles on your attacks, and have your action open to attack with another die adder, such as a Dex Excellency.
That's my take on it, for what it's worth.

I think you should read the Impressions of Strength charm, it has special rules regarding the same effect more than once. The number of times you can apply an effect is determined by your permanent essence. (3 times at essence 5) but I was just wondering if RLF counts as one activation for that charm's purpose ? (e.g., I could only activate it two times more, for 4 motes, because it's effect is already applied once..)


Aside from that, Relentless Lunar Fury specifially states that you can still activate the charms used in it seperately.

 

[Dracogryff]

Personally, I'd rule it one of two ways.


1) RLF activation doesn't count as an activation of the Charm, and thus you can activate it as much as you want or are capable of on an action. However, the two do not stack. This is canonically supported in the Fury-OK Charm Golden Tiger Stance, which specifies that invoked intances of the Charm do not stack with its effect in RLF.


2) It counts as a use of the Charm for Charms that can be activated multiple times like Impressions of Strength. This one is a little more logical in that instance, since otherwise, you'd have to spend 6 motes anyhow if you wished to get it activated three times on an attack. Since it's already active once, there's no reason it doesn't count as one of the uses. Additionally...if one wanted (which owuld probably be silly in most circumstances) I would also allow the Charm istelf to be invoked more than once when putting Fury up, though each seperate activation of it would naturally count as a separate Charm use for how many charms you could activate with Fury.


I'm more inclined to take the latter as my take on it, because otherwise it feels exceedingly like rules exploitation since it doesn't explicitly state that the Fury usage counts against the maximum number of times an edge can be activated.


Now, an interesting thought I have...activating the same edge from Impressions obviously wouldn't need a Combo to occur, but would activating two different edges (whether once or multiple times each) need such?

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Now, an interesting thought I have...activating the same edge from Impressions obviously wouldn't need a Combo to occur, but would activating two different edges (whether once or multiple times each) need such?

I would say no, since it's the same charm...and even normally allows using multiple edges.

 

[Unforgiven]

Now' date=' an interesting thought I have...activating the same edge from Impressions obviously wouldn't need a Combo to occur, but would activating two different edges (whether once or multiple times each) need such?[/quote']
I would say no, since it's the same charm...and even normally allows using multiple edges.

That's actually already stated in the charm's effects: "At essence 4, a character may apply two edges at once (or the same edge twice) for four motes.."

if one wanted (which owuld probably be silly in most circumstances) I would also allow the Charm istelf to be invoked more than once when putting Fury up, though each seperate activation of it would naturally count as a separate Charm use for how many charms you could activate with Fury.

I wouldn't allow this, though I like the idea, because the charm specifically states that you apply only one effect to all attacks.


---

1) RLF activation doesn't count as an activation of the Charm, and thus you can activate it as much as you want or are capable of on an action. However, the two do not stack. This is canonically supported in the Fury-OK Charm Golden Tiger Stance, which specifies that invoked intances of the Charm do not stack with its effect in RLF.

I didn't have my books when I posted this question, but I do now, and I have to disagree with you. The charm Golden Tiger Stance specifically states that it does not stack, but that doesn't say anything about other charms. The specific overrules the general, but doesn't make it cannon for all other charms. If RLF already stated this, then they hadn't needed to include this line in Golden Tiger Stance in the first place, which also proves this is a charm that overrides the general. And I think they mainly did that to prevent the charm from being activated twice in the same turn (since it stays a reflexive charm)


I didn't find any reference in Relentless Lunar Fury that the effects do not stack with each other. I thought it did too, that's why at first, I thought your reasoning very likely. If they wouldn't stack, I'd have to pay 4 motes to get 2 extra damage dice from Rock to Pebbles attitude, and it would replace the 1 extra damage dice I'd get, but sorry to say, they do appear to stack.


Considering that, your advice on allowing it to be included multiple times in relentless lunar fury is probably a bad idea... I guess you can see why if they would stack..


Just to be clear, I'm not really looking to balance anything out yet, I just want to know how it works in a rules-lawyer way. We can debate about ways to balance/change it with our storyteller should it be too powerful or useless, but I do think your suggestion about activating it more times with RLF would be an interesting change..


I really do appreciate the advice and suggestions about it, tnx :-)

 

[Dracogryff]

Uh, I will point out that I said that option 1 is not one I would use either...so why you're complaining about my suggesting it, I don't know. It's really not completely logical when you look at it, since it would make a bit clunky to activate with RLF.


Here's what I would use as a rule:

2) It counts as a use of the Charm for Charms that can be activated multiple times like Impressions of Strength. This one is a little more logical in that instance, since otherwise, you'd have to spend 6 motes anyhow if you wished to get it activated three times on an attack. Since it's already active once, there's no reason it doesn't count as one of the uses. Additionally...if one wanted (which owuld probably be silly in most circumstances) I would also allow the Charm istelf to be invoked more than once when putting Fury up, though each seperate activation of it would naturally count as a separate Charm use for how many charms you could activate with Fury.

I suppose to clarify further, if you can activate multiple Edges, I would allow them to be activated with the Fury activation, however, I would not allow you to activate two with the Charm unless you could activate 3 normally. The activation with Fury counts as a use.


I would allow you to use two (or three) Charm slots out of the number allowed by Fury to activate this Charm twice (or three times) if you had the ability to activate multiple edges at once with the Charm normally. *shrugs* That's all. And no, I wouldn't allow you to then activate the Charm to get the effects yet again.


Oh, and by the way. Rock to Pebbles Attitude gives you three dice, not one, with each activation. Probably meant Undeniable Might instead.

 

[Unforgiven]

Oh, and by the way. Rock to Pebbles Attitude gives you three dice, not one, with each activation. Probably meant Undeniable Might instead.

Yeah. I meant undeniable might, my bad..