Implications of 'curing' Infernals.

[Kremlin KOA]

Been away for a while, but came back when a musing got me to thinking


What would happen if an infernal developed a charm series that restored his/her true solar essence?


Ok my premises came like this


The nature of the Solar essence is such that it finds a way to defeat any restriction or mutilation.


The Yozi are mutilated Primordials.


The Infernal Exaltations are mutilated Solar Exaltations.


Okay, if an infernal were to develop new charms along a line to end with this:


Recovery of the True Self


Cost: —; Mins: Essence 6; Type: Permanent


Keywords: None


Duration: Permanent


Prerequisite Charms: many many charms.


Upon the learning of this charm, the possessor is restored to it's true form. All mutilations and lessenings will be undone, the true glory of the learner will burst forth, dazzling all around.


Needless to say, when an Infernal learns it, the Infernal would become a Solar. replacing all charms with Solar charms etc etc. The learner would also be free of the great curse. But what of the patron Yozi? This is an infernal developing a charm. Which means that the Yozi autolearn it at the moment it is learned.


Hello primordial?

 

[magnificentmomo]

Some of your underlying concepts are sound, but the charm is just too much of an easy way out, IMO.


There might possibly be a way for an Infernal to come back to being close to a Solar, but a simple "buy charm, now you're a Solar" is pretty lame to me.

 

[wordman]

Obligatory reference to my Three Gated Cage goes here.

 

[Jimborg]

I'm going to have to agree with Momo; just buying a Charm to get out of being an Infernal trivializes what should be an epic story. Plus redemption is a much more appropriate theme to Abyssals, what with the Resonance and all.

 

[Moonstone Spider]

Well, ignoring then non-epic part, which I agree with, a Yozi can't restore itself without breaking it's oath on it's own name. And other parts of the books make it clear that saying "The Infernal did it" is also included in the Yozi restoring itself, presumably since the Yozis created the infernals in the first place, so they put things in motion.


So if the charm did restore the Yozi, the new Primordial would suffer whatever punishment the oath demanded of them.

 

[Kremlin KOA]

Some of your underlying concepts are sound, but the charm is just too much of an easy way out, IMO.
There might possibly be a way for an Infernal to come back to being close to a Solar, but a simple "buy charm, now you're a Solar" is pretty lame to me.

Somewhat agreed. I feel that to get this charm should be the end of an epic tale, where half the pre req charms cannot be developed without epic story arcs of their own.


I see the development of a custom charm requiring a similar story to the tale of Brigid. Now repeat that style of quest a half dozen times to get this.

Well, ignoring then non-epic part, which I agree with, a Yozi can't restore itself without breaking it's oath on it's own name. And other parts of the books make it clear that saying "The Infernal did it" is also included in the Yozi restoring itself, presumably since the Yozis created the infernals in the first place, so they put things in motion.
So if the charm did restore the Yozi, the new Primordial would suffer whatever punishment the oath demanded of them.

This I must disagree with, as the explicit reason the Infernal Exalted were given free will was so that anything they did would not count as the Yozi doing it. Also so that the Yozi could not be made to order their exalted to surrender.

 

[Persell]

"Fixing" and Infernal Exaltation kills its host. Other than that it not actually difficult to do, Lytek can do it in two shakes if he gets his hand on one.

 

[cordimus]

1. Infernals are not to Solars as Yozi are to Primordials. Something that fixes one would not necessarily fix the other.


2. Yozi are infinitely grander than Infernals. Even if the Charm would logically tend to the issues that make the Yozi what they are, it might be insufficient to do them any good, since it's a charm powered for use by an Infernal.


3. The terms "lessening" and "Mutilation" are very vague. As I mentioned, the "mutilation" done to the Primordials that made them Yozi is of a completely different nature than what was done to create the Infernals - one or more of their fetish souls were slain. The basic book basically says that resurrection is really not one of a purview of Charms in Exalted for any Exalt/Caste. Further, could an Exalt use this to heal all their wounds at any time? Would it cure the great curse? Would it elevate them to the power of the Unconquered Sun, simply because the failings of Solar design could not create something of infinite power and they are therefore "Less" that they might otherwise have been? Could they use it after they have died to come back to life (since an Exalt powerful enough to learn this charm could very well leave a ghost powerful enough to do so in death). I'm kinda intentionally splitting hairs and bringing up absurd permutations of this charm, mainly because the language used seems intentionally vague in order to warrant a logical jump that would not make sense with more specific terminology.


4. Could an abyssal learn that charm? Since "lessening" could be construed "being dead" could the Malfeans resurrect themselves?


5. Even if the Yozi had access to this charm, would they even want to use it? Would it necessarily guarantee that they would return to exactly what they were or would their restoration cause massive changes to their identity creating a being totally different from anything else they've ever been?


6. What would permit an Infernal to even learn this charm? What is the underpinning logic? It's not even just a chain of charm prerequisites - what are the motivations and ordeals that an Infernal could possibly go through the formulate such a charm, or the needs that an Infernal would possibly have to devise such a charm for themselves?


7. If the Infernals are capable of doing this, why not other Exalts? Why haven't they already?


8. If a Yozi used this would they then lose control over their chosen Caste? They would no longer be the being that enslaved those Solar souls, so would they all be free as well since there is no longer a Yozi to hold them thrall?


Just some things to think about, perhaps.