Verdana
Meme Ghost
I would like having advice on how to be a good DM. Please assist me.
How to DM?
- Thread starter Verdana
- Start date
Elephantom
Chicken Broth Paragon
DM? I assume you mean GM, as in Game Master?
Verdana
Meme Ghost
I mean DM, as in Dungeon Master, the "GM" of D&D campaigns.
So yes.
So yes.
eclipsa
faerie sightings
Listen to what your players say, set your rules and hold your ground on them, and most importantly: have fun!
DarkLightHitomi
New Member
Gm = dm. Most, but not all, use "gm" when speaking generically though.
It is easier to give advice on more specific things, like problems or choices, but a few general tips.
Playstyle. People like to cut playstyle into a scale between kick-in-the-door and intrigue, but playstyle is vastly more complicated. Players have different things they want from the game, and it isn't so simple as combat or diplomacy. Some players are out to jointly create a compelling story, while others want to explore your story without adding to it. Still others treat the game differently, some building characters and description around their mechanical choices while others make mechanical choices based on character and description.
There is no real need to know all the different styles or anything, but pay attention to what the players are wanting from the game (which is sometimes different than what they think they are wanting, though this takes experience to spot).
You should try to handle each player according to how they play the game, but in some cases you need to get everyone on the same page or the group will break apart from frustration. For example, I joined a game once where I was the only player to play from my character's perspective. The other players made choices based on the meta-game and highly optimized everything, then they played their characters to match what they already chose. The other players also expected me to do the same, including the gm, but the gm's decription of their style was "combat focused" which wasn't sufficient. So things went rather poorly. They got angry with me over many things, such as my character not trusting these other folks she met 5 minutes before, and then again because I didn't use an acid flask to add +1 dmg to acid spells because my character disdained using potion-like things. Amd then again when a player asked me to identify potions while we were marching through dangerous enemy territory and my character said to wait until camp and watch was set. At this last one the gm said identifying potions was my job as arcanist (even though such a requirement was never mentioned) and so was unhappy with me not only waiting to identify potions but also because I didn't put any skill ranks into the skill used for identifying potions.
After that I left, but it should serve as a good example of how players can have different ideas about playing and how that can lead to problems if the gm doesn't discuss it and get everyone on the same page regarding expectations and how play is going to proceed before even starting the game.
It is easier to give advice on more specific things, like problems or choices, but a few general tips.
Playstyle. People like to cut playstyle into a scale between kick-in-the-door and intrigue, but playstyle is vastly more complicated. Players have different things they want from the game, and it isn't so simple as combat or diplomacy. Some players are out to jointly create a compelling story, while others want to explore your story without adding to it. Still others treat the game differently, some building characters and description around their mechanical choices while others make mechanical choices based on character and description.
There is no real need to know all the different styles or anything, but pay attention to what the players are wanting from the game (which is sometimes different than what they think they are wanting, though this takes experience to spot).
You should try to handle each player according to how they play the game, but in some cases you need to get everyone on the same page or the group will break apart from frustration. For example, I joined a game once where I was the only player to play from my character's perspective. The other players made choices based on the meta-game and highly optimized everything, then they played their characters to match what they already chose. The other players also expected me to do the same, including the gm, but the gm's decription of their style was "combat focused" which wasn't sufficient. So things went rather poorly. They got angry with me over many things, such as my character not trusting these other folks she met 5 minutes before, and then again because I didn't use an acid flask to add +1 dmg to acid spells because my character disdained using potion-like things. Amd then again when a player asked me to identify potions while we were marching through dangerous enemy territory and my character said to wait until camp and watch was set. At this last one the gm said identifying potions was my job as arcanist (even though such a requirement was never mentioned) and so was unhappy with me not only waiting to identify potions but also because I didn't put any skill ranks into the skill used for identifying potions.
After that I left, but it should serve as a good example of how players can have different ideas about playing and how that can lead to problems if the gm doesn't discuss it and get everyone on the same page regarding expectations and how play is going to proceed before even starting the game.
Verdana
Meme Ghost
Isn't potionlike stuff what an Alchemist does?
Either that or things like matches and acid flasks.
Either that or things like matches and acid flasks.
DarkLightHitomi
New Member
Spellcraft is used to identify such things, so therefore it gets lumped in with arcane casters who theoretically will have the spellcraft skill (I don't always take it since it isn't actually used to cast spells and skill points are scarce).
Irick
New Member
Firstly, you've taken a good step by seeking advice. Every GM/DM develops on their own, in their own way, but there are several methods that you can try until you find one that works best for you:
Read the rulebooks:
You need to know the system well enough to help your players through acquainting themselves with it. While I'd say pretty much every other method is optional, you'll find it very useful to know the general gist of things and where in the book you can find various information.
Read the DMG:
The DMG is a wealth of good information. It provides useful tools for running smooth sessions as well as general advice for managing a table. The 5th edition DMG as well as the old AD&D DMG are amazingly good practical guides in my experience.
Read GM Advice Books:
I particularly enjoy Robin's Rules of Good Game Mastery, Sly Flourish's The Lazy Dungeon Master, and finally Hamlet's Hit Points.
Watch Real Plays:
Sometimes the best way to learn is to watch others. There are many groups that publish their sessions as podcasts and youtube videos. I rather enjoy Critical Role personally, but it does tend to be over edited and a bit of a lofty prototype to try and fulfill.
Be a mindful Player:
A dungeon master is also a player. Watch your other players, think about how the dynamic evolves as the session goes forward. Take notes.
Play lots of Games:
Sometimes you need to grab mechanics inspiration if your player makes an odd request. Having a large library of those sort of ideas on hand can ease the creative burdon and make it easier to say 'yes'.
All in all, just think about game mastering more. What you think makes good stories, what you think makes good games. Practice makes perfect, but the most important aspect of a game master is confidence. When you sit down at that table, just remember that the game you can run is the only game that exists. Don't try to compare yourself to some platonic form of 'good D&D session' just enjoy every moment of what that session turns out to be!
Read the rulebooks:
You need to know the system well enough to help your players through acquainting themselves with it. While I'd say pretty much every other method is optional, you'll find it very useful to know the general gist of things and where in the book you can find various information.
Read the DMG:
The DMG is a wealth of good information. It provides useful tools for running smooth sessions as well as general advice for managing a table. The 5th edition DMG as well as the old AD&D DMG are amazingly good practical guides in my experience.
Read GM Advice Books:
I particularly enjoy Robin's Rules of Good Game Mastery, Sly Flourish's The Lazy Dungeon Master, and finally Hamlet's Hit Points.
Watch Real Plays:
Sometimes the best way to learn is to watch others. There are many groups that publish their sessions as podcasts and youtube videos. I rather enjoy Critical Role personally, but it does tend to be over edited and a bit of a lofty prototype to try and fulfill.
Be a mindful Player:
A dungeon master is also a player. Watch your other players, think about how the dynamic evolves as the session goes forward. Take notes.
Play lots of Games:
Sometimes you need to grab mechanics inspiration if your player makes an odd request. Having a large library of those sort of ideas on hand can ease the creative burdon and make it easier to say 'yes'.
All in all, just think about game mastering more. What you think makes good stories, what you think makes good games. Practice makes perfect, but the most important aspect of a game master is confidence. When you sit down at that table, just remember that the game you can run is the only game that exists. Don't try to compare yourself to some platonic form of 'good D&D session' just enjoy every moment of what that session turns out to be!
Verdana
Meme Ghost
Right, thanks!
Grey
Dialectical Hermeticist
Not specific to D&D, but most of the content there should be applicable.
Verdana
Meme Ghost
Thank you.
SaintHax
role player
You have some great advice already, and forgive me if I restate things in Grey's links, as I'm in a hurry to get back to work. My favorite of what's been mentioned is "play lots of games", I'd add to that "with various other game masters". I've played with more than a few GM's that thought they were good GMs b/c they've been doing it for years; however, practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent. So, practice bad GMing just means it's harder to correct later.
As an anecdote, my friend and I were part of a convention group with a GM named Rod. He was a quirky guy that could talk your ear off, but we found out that his games filled up immediately every year during preregistration. So we found time one year to attend one to see why people kept coming back. It was a great learning experience. He did the voices for the NPCs, and worried about "fun" foremost. The other thing he did was he never shot down a players ideas, he accommodated them some how-- even if he had to modify his story, or modify their original ask into something that fit better-- but he never rejected. Playing with various good GMs is a great way to become one.
Here are some other hints:
That should get your going-- above all, have fun.
Happy Gaming,
SaintHax
As an anecdote, my friend and I were part of a convention group with a GM named Rod. He was a quirky guy that could talk your ear off, but we found out that his games filled up immediately every year during preregistration. So we found time one year to attend one to see why people kept coming back. It was a great learning experience. He did the voices for the NPCs, and worried about "fun" foremost. The other thing he did was he never shot down a players ideas, he accommodated them some how-- even if he had to modify his story, or modify their original ask into something that fit better-- but he never rejected. Playing with various good GMs is a great way to become one.
Here are some other hints:
- Always remember the story is about the players, not you. As a GM, you are a giver, not an author. Your original story ideas must remain flexible.
- Avoid pet NPCs. I had a great GM that ruined campaigns with this. His NPCs were more powerful, more important, and talked the PCs down. Rarely did we feel like a hero through a whole game.
- Figure out what a player wants, and spot light that for them when possible. Some players like to be the best combatant in the group, some want to change the story, some want their PCs to reach some goal, etc.
- Don't over prepare-- I know that a lot of professional books tell you to "be prepared", but don't flesh out a whole town. Your players won't remember all the details, they are interested in their characters and what effects them directly. If you know how your world is working, you don't need to actually name every NPC or tavern. I personally steal names from other sources, just so I don't worry about forgetting them. My current D&D character is a warlock named Rahvin, and he used the alias Jasin Natael for fellow Wheel of Time fans-- and this is only one character for me to remember.
- Don't roll things that aren't important. I personally do away with "loot the dead bodies" in games. It's not very heroic. If there is something on a dead body worth finding, my heroes find it. If there's not, they don't-- no need to voice searching corpses like vultures.
That should get your going-- above all, have fun.
Happy Gaming,
SaintHax
DarkLightHitomi
New Member
Also, the gm is the biggest part of the experience. If you have new players, always let them know that your game is just one way to play and that other vastly different ways to play exist as well. I've seen new players get introduced and never come back because of the first game they tried didn't suit them (or in one case because the gm was new himself and refused to share the burden of teaching causing a horrible game that even I never went back to).
Also, don't prep plots (unless your players prefer being led by the nose, which some do), instead prep situations. Basically, rather than preparing "the pcs go here then here and then do this and that" you should instead say "these are the badguys and their mooks, they are doing this and plan on doing that and respond to outside influence in this way" Not only does it take a bit less work, it also is far more flexible when (not if) players do something way outside what you expected/planned-for.
=========
Good reading for improving you play as a gm or player,
http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/creations.html
and the blog,
http://www.thealexandrian.net/
Also, don't prep plots (unless your players prefer being led by the nose, which some do), instead prep situations. Basically, rather than preparing "the pcs go here then here and then do this and that" you should instead say "these are the badguys and their mooks, they are doing this and plan on doing that and respond to outside influence in this way" Not only does it take a bit less work, it also is far more flexible when (not if) players do something way outside what you expected/planned-for.
=========
Good reading for improving you play as a gm or player,
http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/creations.html
and the blog,
http://www.thealexandrian.net/
SaintHax
role player
I wanted to add another anecdote: Since those are less likely to be read in books, I like them in forum posts :-)
In our current D&D game, my buddy (Matt, same one as before) is running it and we have gotten to level 6 (so more than a few plays). He calls me up to discuss one player-- not a problem player, but a player he's not been able to spotlight. The guy is playing a very good Cleric whose hobby is cooking, and he's so straight laced "go out, do good" and uncomplicated that he's yet to have a tough in-character decision. Everyone else has a side-story that has each of us stop to ponder and make difficult decisions. To an average GM, you have a happy campaign and should continue. However, Matt has been doing this a while and wants to have everyone very invested.
The take away is to look for these things too, as a campaign progresses. The cleric was enjoying play, but was really just drifting in plot inertia. If you are curious, the plan is to look for places where the Cleric will have to make Machiavellian choices, rather than the easy ones of just doing what's right. There is a balance between ruining the character experience, and thoughtful decision though. Knowing your players is key. For example, we can't back the cleric into a corner and force him to use demonic powers or let a friend die-- too heavy handed. We also can't offer this player "more power", but aligned with a person of ill-repute, b/c he'll reject it w/o thought. If this particular incident wasn't complicated, Matt wouldn't have needed to confer on it though. Again-- the take away is to make sure everyone who wants to role play is getting enough to role play :-)
In our current D&D game, my buddy (Matt, same one as before) is running it and we have gotten to level 6 (so more than a few plays). He calls me up to discuss one player-- not a problem player, but a player he's not been able to spotlight. The guy is playing a very good Cleric whose hobby is cooking, and he's so straight laced "go out, do good" and uncomplicated that he's yet to have a tough in-character decision. Everyone else has a side-story that has each of us stop to ponder and make difficult decisions. To an average GM, you have a happy campaign and should continue. However, Matt has been doing this a while and wants to have everyone very invested.
The take away is to look for these things too, as a campaign progresses. The cleric was enjoying play, but was really just drifting in plot inertia. If you are curious, the plan is to look for places where the Cleric will have to make Machiavellian choices, rather than the easy ones of just doing what's right. There is a balance between ruining the character experience, and thoughtful decision though. Knowing your players is key. For example, we can't back the cleric into a corner and force him to use demonic powers or let a friend die-- too heavy handed. We also can't offer this player "more power", but aligned with a person of ill-repute, b/c he'll reject it w/o thought. If this particular incident wasn't complicated, Matt wouldn't have needed to confer on it though. Again-- the take away is to make sure everyone who wants to role play is getting enough to role play :-)
Grey
Dialectical Hermeticist
Really good piece of advice I learned from Justin Achilli - pay close attention to the questions players ask about methods to approach a situation, and what they put on their character sheet.
His example was a player who asked if it was possible to reach a location by ship, indicating to him that even though the player hadn't brought it up they might want a bit more nautical adventure in the story. Alternatively, if he had checked the character sheet for that player's character, he would have seen they'd invested in the Sailing skill, which is an indicator they wanted to do some sailing over the course of the story.
It's a small thing, but watching out for those kind of cues can make a big difference.
His example was a player who asked if it was possible to reach a location by ship, indicating to him that even though the player hadn't brought it up they might want a bit more nautical adventure in the story. Alternatively, if he had checked the character sheet for that player's character, he would have seen they'd invested in the Sailing skill, which is an indicator they wanted to do some sailing over the course of the story.
It's a small thing, but watching out for those kind of cues can make a big difference.
DarkLightHitomi
New Member
I'd like to counter SaintHax's last post with a cautionary statement, some players do not want to be invested in the game. Some players are playing with the goal of spending time with friends who all just happen to be playing an rpg (for these players the game itself isn't important at all. Could be playing charades for all they care), and some like to sitback and watch the stories of others and don't really want to participate very deeply, except to occasionally support their friends.
The player I had like was quite capable of telling me that straight up when I asked, but I did have to ask. Please note, lots of people can't adequetly state their desires or problems, so beware of that.
The player I had like was quite capable of telling me that straight up when I asked, but I did have to ask. Please note, lots of people can't adequetly state their desires or problems, so beware of that.
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Cashdash25
The Proletariat Robot
Trial and error for the most part. Whether your playing with a new group of people or some regular friends every group is going to have teething issues, mistakes will be made, some people are not going to get along with each other. It takes time and effort to find a method that works for you and for your players, and every time your group changes, either because somebody moved or a new person was added or because you're playing on a forum like this one where you'll rarely get the same group in two different roleplays that method is going to need adjustments.
As a rule of thumb, a good GM needs to know the system the party is playing with, read the books, study the rulesets, learn the ins and outs of the mechanics, the better you understand the system the less down time there'll be as you or your players look up rules for grapple checks or whatever it is that they want to do at that moment. The second thing you need to do is talk to your players regularly, ask about how they feel campaign is going, if they're happy with the current rulesets or if they've got some suggestions for improvements, the more input from the players the better. If you can do those two things everything else is a matter of time and effort as you and your party work out the kinks and petty rivalries and find a pace that works for that group.
As a rule of thumb, a good GM needs to know the system the party is playing with, read the books, study the rulesets, learn the ins and outs of the mechanics, the better you understand the system the less down time there'll be as you or your players look up rules for grapple checks or whatever it is that they want to do at that moment. The second thing you need to do is talk to your players regularly, ask about how they feel campaign is going, if they're happy with the current rulesets or if they've got some suggestions for improvements, the more input from the players the better. If you can do those two things everything else is a matter of time and effort as you and your party work out the kinks and petty rivalries and find a pace that works for that group.
M.J. Saulnier
Semi-Retired User
Hehe. The million dollar question.
I think every large site should have an Academy with classes for stuff like this and so much more.
I think it depends on the game runner and the project they are running. I can go from total collective effort, to light overseer, or structured overseer. Really anything in between. Depends on what I want to do. I LOVE to develop with people. the OOC is as rewarding to me as the IC.
I think every large site should have an Academy with classes for stuff like this and so much more.
I think it depends on the game runner and the project they are running. I can go from total collective effort, to light overseer, or structured overseer. Really anything in between. Depends on what I want to do. I LOVE to develop with people. the OOC is as rewarding to me as the IC.
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Bacon is fluffy
Wut'n th'name of davy jonez lockr is uh sall-add?
The comprehensive gm thread in addition to a few other experiences I've had with being a gm like presence, is it's as much as what you come with as how you deal with people. I'm not just talking about avoiding conflict and being an ass,but how you lead them and keep the lines of communication flowing. It's a rather odd role in an environment that doesn't lend much of a hand to being a leader. xD You know, the whole most of your communication is missing in a forum setting.
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