How hard is it to make a Martial Arts Style Homebrew?

jokasti

New Member
Title says it all, really. I haven't played Exalted, but I have the core rulebook, and am getting into a game soon. I was thinking of making a Martial Arts based character. I made a couple charms on the Exalted wiki under The Seventh Prelude, but they are probably terribly broken. I was going to try to make a custom Martial Arts style that my character had created and refined. So, easy/medium/hard/don't even try?
 
It's harder than it sounds.


Here are some guides (of varying quality, and all for First Edition):



Of the hundreds of styles created, 60% of them are unplayably terrible. This is usually because the designer built them based on some kind of wish fulfillment of "I want my character to have this effect, this effect, this effect and that effect".


Of the remainder, about half of them are merely bad (usually because they are not particularly interesting). The rest are usable, with a few of them being stellar.


I'm not much of an MA style designer. I've created some styles (1, 2) and altered some written by others (1, 2, 3), but none of them are really great. However, my advice, since you are asking, based on what I've seen others do:

  • Keep the number of charms under control. Many fan-based styles add a ton of charms to a style, which is bad. Most terrestrial styles have around 8, celestial styles around 10, sidereal styles around 12 (all these numbers give or take a couple). See this matrix for a comparison.
  • Most MA charms are weaker than solar charms of the same Essence level, pre-form charms particularly so. Form charms and pinnacle charms are typically a bit stronger.
  • Terrestrial and celestial styles all tend to have a "missing feature". That is, given five basic categories (attack, damage, defense, mobility, soak), most styles completely lack charms for at least one of these categories.
  • Martial arts styles work better when they contain charms that feed on each other to reinforce a theme.
  • Some disagree (including actual Exalted authors), but I feel that:Terrestrial styles gain martial arts magic by applying lessons learned from something: the way a rock falls, the way a dragon moves, the way a mountain casts a shadow. You can imagine a terrestrial sifu saying "just like cat's feet always hit the ground first, so to must you strive to remain upright", applying a lesson illustrated by something else.
  • Celestial styles gain martial arts magic by emulating something: an animal (such as a snake, mantis, tiger, nightingale), an ideal (compassion, righteous cleansing) or an idealized being (performer, hero, dominatrix). The martial artist embodies a concept in order to inflict his will. A celestial sifu would never say to be "like" anything, rather, she would say "you must become the cat".
  • Sidereal styles, on the other hand, are about altering reality with a metaphor. They do not seek to emulate anything, but rather wield it as a weapon. The martial artist directly manipulates a concept in order to inflict his will. A sidereal sifu would teach neither of the previous lessons, but rather "you must wield the whole notion of cats as your weapon".


[*]Don't design in a vacuum. Get feedback from people other than who you play with early and often.


[*]Playtest against similar characters using canonical styles (see Trial by Schmendrick for one method). If possible, you should play the canonical style and have someone else play the style you design. Until you playtest, the style is not done.


[*]If you are looking at a bunch of fan-made styles for First Edition, realize that these styles were written before the existence of Excellencies. Many fan-made MA charms from 1E are made obsolete by the existence of general MA excellencies.


[*]Take a look at some generic charm effects for 2E.


[*]When trying to figure out a cost for a charm, at bare minimum, compare its effect to the various excellency charms.


[*]Though it doesn't deal specifically with Martial Arts, most of the charm design advice in Sol Invictus is still applicable to Second Edition. The "no speedbump" guideline is particularly important.


[*]When you write the text of a charm, go back and read what the text actually says, not what you think it means. Change the text until it matches what you think the charm means.
 
As long as you have a strong theme to base the style on, it shouldn't be -that- difficult. Well, no more difficult than making a Charm tree. :D


(Preemptive edit: Wordman, you suck. D:)


For a newcomer to the game, the most appropriate advice here would be: take a look at a lot of Charms. At this point of the franchise, there probably is about a thousand published Charms. Get a feel of how the mechanics achieve the effect described in the fluff, how Charms in a cascade base upon each other and progress along the tree, et cetera. After a point, you'll get a feel of what a Charm cascade should be like.


Making a MA style is, though, somewhat different. The Charms should give the character a distinctive style. Five-Dragon Stylist should feel firm and grounded. First Pulse Style in action should be explosive and short-lived, and so on. However, as mentioned above, having a strong theme should turn this into an advantage in practice.


Be sure to post it when you've made the style. People'll be more than happy to help you and such. :D
 
wordman said:
[*]Sidereal styles, on the other hand, are about altering reality with a metaphor. They do not seek to emulate anything, but rather wield it as a weapon. The martial artist directly manipulates a concept in order to inflict his will. A sidereal sifu would teach neither of the previous lessons, but rather "you must wield the whole notion of cats as your weapon
Awesome. The Crazy Cat Lady from Simpsons is actually a Sidereal martial artist :lol:


Training under her would be hard, though.


"Sifu, how can I keep all of these cats from scratching me as I weild them as concepts of whuppass?"


"GYAHHrgleclydesdale, fthruthersBARKshimble!"


"Of course... how silly of me."
 
The Crazy Cat Lady would be a Celestial martial artist at the most extreme, I think. To be a Sidereal martial artist, she would also need to be a zoologist or a poet.
 
Quchu said:
The Crazy Cat Lady would be a Celestial martial artist at the most extreme, I think. To be a Sidereal martial artist, she would also need to be a zoologist or a poet.
She was a doctor and a lawyer, does that help? Maybe she's reciting Malfean poetry or something.


Plus she just tends to show up outta nowhere, and no-one can remember her name...


But the cats... oh yes they rember the cats.
 
But, in all honesty, if you want to create a martial arts style, look at cannon styles for a guide to rough balance and number of charms, like others have said. Playtesting it is also highly important, as something can seem okay in theory and turn out either useless, or overpowered in practice. Generally, the upper end of Terrestrial Martial Arts is around Five Dragon Style. The upper end of Celestial Martial Arts includes such things as Violet Bier of Sorrows, the Five Glorious Dragon Paths, Dark Messiah Style and Infernal Monster Style. Try not to make your style more powerful than those, and you're probably on the right track. Also...generally keep some form of flaw or weakness in the style.


Further, while it's okay to allow weapons in the style, they should have some sort of thematic focus. Five Dragon, for example allows the Spear and Straight Sword. It's a military style, allowing armor, designed for soldiers. As such, traditional military weapons make sense. It's also influenced by some forms of Kung Fu, particularly those that are military styles themselves. Similarly, The Art of Victorious Concession is a style focused on peace and compassion. As such, it allows no weapons, and many of its charms are specifically suited to defending or healing others...or defensive, or using a foe's own momentum against them. It lacks flashy direct attack charms entirely, because such is unsuited to the style.


I've designed two styles myself, that so far seem balanced, though I need more playtesting in actual game with the Celestial Style of the two, Righteous Warrior Style. Both Gunzosha Warrior Style (Terrestrial) and Righteous Warrior Style (Celestial) I've posted up here, and worked with the critiques of people on the ECR to improve and they seem to have come out around acceptable.


I would suggest that you look into at least borrowing some of the other books form someone, that include a greater variety of styles. I fear the Core book alone doesn't give a broad enough feel for such to truly come out with something balanced.
 
and certainly, look to the various inspirational materials for Exalted: anime, kung fu movies, etc.


Like Kung Fu hustle, for instance. The Hexagon Spear style featured in that movie is a great basis for a Terrestrial Martial art. The Musicians were a great example of a Celestial Martial art. And Buddha's Palm reflects the sublime fate/Essence mastery of the Sidereal Martial arts.


Lets' shoot out an example of that staff/spear style (all based on observed or implied abilities from the movie.) At the moment, since we're just looking at the sort of abilities we want it to have, we'll delay the other mechanics like costs and minimums. This way you can see some of the thought processes I use.


1 first charm lets the player use improvised staff-like objects as if they were actual an actual short-spear. (walking sticks, tree branches, shepherd's staffs) so they do lethal instead of bashing.useful, thus the artist is rarely without his "brush"


2 this charm add's the player's melee or martial arts (the higher one) to his initiative when using a spear.


similar to a few other MAs for a fast attack


3 this charm lets the player knockback/dismount opponents with greater ease.


allows for a little fun with stunting, see how many people you can send careening around!


4 the player can wield two short spears without penalites, (or double the rate of one spear?) number of attacks still limited to the character's available dice pool for making multiple attacks.


dunno if this is really useful, but seems like a neat effect, it was impressive in the movie


5 The form charm: player becomes one with his spear in a whirling, leaping dance. add Permanent Essence to the spear's accuracy, defense and damage.seems standard per the other MA form charms, you become an idealized spearman


6 the form becomes a whirling chaotic dervish kicking up dust and sparks as the spear rapidly scours the surounding environment in it's motions. The dust cloud and the rapid whipping of the spear impose an external penalty (= Essence? or 1/2 Essence?) on those trying to attack the player


a useful effect that gets many opponents, compensates for the normally low defense of the spear


7 the player uses his spear as a vaulting pole to deliver a devastating leaping attack Essence x 4 yards away along a parabolic arc. add one die(more?) of damage per yard travelled, possibly post-soak.need at least one heavier damage dealing charm, i'd say.


8 "Phantom Phalanx Prana" with a big expenditure of essence and willpower player can use his anima to animate any loose spear-like objects to fight with him as a unit, they all go on his turn and act to defend him or attack with him. Number of additional objects = permanent Essence.before the spear became an extension of the warrior, now the warrior extends to the spear! the big finish charm.


so there is a barebones concept for a martial art based around the spear (i believe there is a proper one in Scroll of the Monk.) It took me about <20 minutes to write up the concept. Now i would have to decide what min abilities are required, how many motes or willpower are required. generally speaking i assume that the main form charm and the big showy one at the end of the form would probably require 1 Wp and/or at least 5motes to activate.


looking the charm list over before posting, i've already fiddled with the charm order a little bit. without the book to refer to at the moment, i don't know if the bonuses added make the spear the new go-to weapon, or make a daiklaive weilder look at you and go "meh" so i know i'd need to do some more research. I decided against any charms involving throwing the spear because, well, that's what throwing charms are for, nor did i add a charm to shoot stuff out of the spear since that's basically another existing melee charm.


I also have to figure out their durations. it's unbalancing to have a charm tree completely filled with scene-long charms (i can't recall any that do, anyways), but i see at least a few of them would have to last that long.


On the whole, the proposed charm list doesn't look unbalancing, and if one is using an artifact or wonder in lieu of a pointy stick the additional bonuses could make the MA worthwile.


I would probably rank this one a Terrestrial martial art since it doesn't get crazy till the end of the Style, and most of the effects are still kinda "mundane." Now if charm number 6 started calling down a tornado, or used the spear as a to "knock a star out of the sky to strike my enemy", i would consider it to be more of a celestial martial art.


So, in summary. No, it's not too hard to design a supernatural martial art. the trick is to design a good one. this one looks do-able on paper, but might be useless in gameplay. So a clear concept, logical progression in the charm tree, a clear limit on what the style does, research and testing will eventually win out. If this seems to hard, think of how hard it is to make an actual martial art worth learning :)
 
Thanks for all the input!


Here are the basics I have so far:


Dark Hook and Claw Style


Many Martial Artists use their skill to fight an opponent, one on one. Dark Hook and Claw Style is all about assassination, deception, and striking hard, fast, and most of all, first. While in combat, people that take this Style may use two of the following as unarmored attacks: Tiger Claws, Hook Swords, Sais, War Fans, Khatars, and Knives. They may also choose one of the following as an unarmored attack when fighting against an unaware person: Blowguns, Garrotes, Hand Needles, and Needles. Once a follower of the Dark Hook and Claw Style has chosen these three specialized weapons, they may not change them. They must have at least one dot in each of those as a specialty before taking this style.


Only Solars, Lunars, and Immaculate Dragon-Blooded may learn this Style.


((Will edit for charms later))
 
The hardest thing with martial arts styles is balancing them properly. Of the three I've made (all on lore5 if you want to take a look at them) the two Terrestrial Styles are, in my opinion at least, pretty solid, but the Celestial Martial Art... ehh, I'm not terribly proud of it. I used to think it was pretty good, but as I got more familiar with the system... *shrugs*


As for the style you've presented: the entire purpose of Martial Arts is that they represent universal paths to power. You cannot limit a Celestial Martial Art to solars, lunars and Immaculate Dragon-Blooded, since 'Celestial Martial Art' is already a category they all have access to along with Sidereals, Abyssals, Infernals, some akuma, some gods and so on.
 
Do be aware that your style will be fighting to differentiate itself from at least Ebon Shadow Style in theme, as Ebon Shadow Style is the current Martial Art about assassinations in the dark.


How will your Martial Art kill people differently?
 
jokasti said:
Thanks for all the input!
Here are the basics I have so far:


Dark Hook and Claw Style


Many Martial Artists use their skill to fight an opponent, one on one. Dark Hook and Claw Style is all about assassination, deception, and striking hard, fast, and most of all, first.
While I may be jumping the gun a bit here because you haven't yet reveled any charms, I think you're being a bit too broad in describing what the style is about. Assassination is a theme. Deception is a theme. Striking hard, or fast, or first, is a theme. Adding them all together isn't. The rest of the style should spill out from your core, central theme, even if it encompasses other ideas as secondary. Your core theme should run through every charm in the style, not just a few that need to be added to charms with another theme in order to make up the rest of the style. If you're building charms that incorporate only of those themes at a time, the style will seem less consistent as a whole.

While in combat, people that take this Style may use two of the following as unarmored attacks: Tiger Claws, Hook Swords, Sais, War Fans, Khatars, and Knives. They may also choose one of the following as an unarmored attack when fighting against an unaware person: Blowguns, Garrotes, Hand Needles, and Needles.
As for weapons, few (if any) styles have as broad and differing a selection of weapons as you've got there. I can see the blowgun, garrote, knife, and needles as being in line with assassination. The fan is definitely in line with deception, and striking first (unexpected attack ftw), but not really assassination. Hook swords are very cool and cinematic, but have nothing to do with any of the themes you quote; instead, their uniqueness comes from their uses defensively (the guards, the hook-link to increase range and keep opponents away, etc). The khatar and tiger claw are thematic for striking hard and fast, but not at all for deception or assassination. Same with the sai, which should have charms dedicated to parries or dual use.


As mentioned, you need to differentiate this style from those that already exist, and refining the core theme should help do that. Refining your theme will define your style's weapons. Charms will naturally follow.
 
HC is spot on here, really. Focus it a little more in specific direction, and probably decrease the weapons a bit. :) And, well, once you have some charm ideas, we can try and help you balance those, and the like.
 
I think changing the name might help the focus. Usually an "and" in the name is a good sign that the design is scattered. Also, anything with "and" in the name tends not to be that evocative or "scary" (with, perhaps, "Little sister and big daddy" being an exception).


Some styles with names in the same vein that already exist (though some are "in-progress"):



Note: when reading styles on the wiki, a rule of thumb is that the more different commentators it has, the better the style probably is.


Stunningly, the wiki doesn't contain a Raiton Style.
 
The concept is good, for a CMA, not a TMA.


Ebon Shadow is a strange ninja style... based more on deception and penalizing the opponent than acting as a real assassin.


If you want to make a TMA, you have to choose your focus and your "concept".


Either it's "deception" (Ebon Shadow) or it's "strike fast hard and first" (Firt Pulse)or it's "strike while undetected" (insert style here).


If it's a TMA, it can be a bit of all of them, but I would recommend getting more stealth and better unexpected attacks effects than Ebon Shadow... also probably keeping a link with the mark.


As for the weapons, if assassination is the theme, then anything not easily concealed is not appropriate, but you were right about the blowgun.


Though you could go for Archery (public long distance shots always have been a must in assassination attempts) weapons.


I'd change the name to Dark Hood style... a bit more sinister, and write a nice background about the secret society teaching the style. :mrgreen:
 
Okay, seems like there are enough Assassin Styles, so I'm going to try what cyl suggested and try an Archery-enhancing based MA. If anyone knows one that already exists, I'd like to see it so I can make sure it differs from it.


Glorious Avian Style (TMA/WIP)


Many Martial Artists specialize in some sort of close-combat fighting style. Not those that follow the Glorious Avian Style. Focusing on ranged attacks made from a bow, this Style teaches based on different types of flying creatures. From an earlier post, it doesn't emulate the birds, but teaches lessons... [the falcon's dive is the fastest in the world. Using his technique, your arrows will do extra damage as long as they are descending.] based on the different birds). Sifus of this style recognize that not every attack can be made ranged, so they also urge their students to learn at least one martial style weapon (close combat). Students may use one of the following as an unarmed weapon when using Glorious Avian Style: Sai, Khatar, Polearm, Seven-Section Staff, or Trident; students and sifus alike hate to be hit be an opponent, as their constitution is not as great as those that follow other styles when it comes to close combat.
 
Well, actually Wood Dragon Style uses bows IIRC.


Check the DB book to see what it does.


As for your concept, well, I suggest you take a look at the Tsuruchi techniques from L5R.


Also, unless you wanna go for an archery only MA (like Righteous Devil) I suggest you apply your concepts for unarmed MA attacks too.


I kinda like the concept of a TMA in which everything is based on "being on top of things"... it's original.
 
cyl said:
Well, actually Wood Dragon Style uses bows IIRC.
Check the DB book to see what it does.


As for your concept, well, I suggest you take a look at the Tsuruchi techniques from L5R.


Also, unless you wanna go for an archery only MA (like Righteous Devil) I suggest you apply your concepts for unarmed MA attacks too.


I kinda like the concept of a TMA in which everything is based on "being on top of things"... it's original.
I just looked that up, and it's th signature weapon.


The theme of the class could be "Death from above!!!"


I am thinking of adding a melee weapon too, something that requires slicing down from over one's head, or something similar... I'll check the wiki for a possible melee match.
 
Okay, so there are already some MA Styles with bows as their favored weapons, but I think I'm going to run with it. I like the attacking from above thing; I am thinking an early Charm will aid an Exalt's Athletics/Jumping or something. But here's the first charm.


Uphill Advantage Technique


Cost: None


Duration: Permanent


Type: Permanent


Minimums: Archery 2, Essence 2


Prerequisites: None


Weeks of shooting arrows downward has strengthened the Exalts shooting ability. Whenever an Exalt fires down at a target below her, or in some way targets an opponent below her (including slashing down with a weapon), they may choose to add one to the Accuracy and Damage of the attack(s). This is also applicable to unarmed strike attacks.
 
Seems like a pretty good start... but I'd say use it with both unarmed and archery attacks. You gain more versatility and more style.


This way whenever you get a descending blow (which means you can flurry Jump + Attack if you're not already above your opponent) you get the bonus.


But I'd advise against building charms without having mastered the concept and the background of the style. Like a chargen, when you think things through, the technical parts usually come naturally afterwards.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top