Advice/Help How do you Tell Someone you don't like their writing?

[BackSet]

How do you tell someone you don't like their writing or think it's bad without sounding like a jerk? Not in a case of style clash but in a case of poor grammar and punctuation or just being unreadable for different reasons.

 

[Silly Little Guy]

What I do is I try saying what they can do to improve in the form of tips! That way it truly sounds like you’re just trying to help them! It also helps to mention some of the things they do well to let them know that you do still shoot RPing with them!

 

[Hootle]

With some people either way, you're going to be the jerk so just be honest without sounding like an ahole. Say you are having a hard time understanding what they wrote.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Try to focus on “I statements”.

ex. I’m so sorry but I didn’t understand what this sentence meant (give example from post).

ex. I’m sorry I didn’t understand what was happening in the post? Did you mean (your best guess at what was happening).

If they are unable to make things more clear just say something like “I’m sorry I don’t think I’m a good fit for you. I don’t want to wast your time trying to rewrite your posts (or something like that).”

Basically make it less about what they’re doing wrong and more about you not being able to understand

 

[Millfall]

Detailed critique without personal attacks. If they get offended by that, it's on them, you did your best.

 

[Coward]

I don't think it's good policy to critique someone's writing unless requested, to be honest. This is a relaxing hobby, not an English exam. The same goes for other creative projects too; generally if someone wants your critical input they'll ask you. I think I would drop a partner who sent me "detailed critique" out of the blue, and I'm someone who actually does ask for critique in other places. I would not be able to relax with that partner again, knowing I'm being constantly judged.

If you care about writing quality maybe you could ask for a sample before hand?

 

[nerdy tangents]

To be fair I think sometimes it’s less a quality problem and more of a style issue. Like I noticed people from certain countries use different punctuation styles.

like I remember I the first time someone used — x instead of “ x “ for dialogue I had no idea what was happening. I understood they were talking but not that it was out loud.

So I just asked “hey is my character supposed to hear that?”

Plus samples can be tricky cuz unless you get a whole roleplay it’s not always accurate to what people actually write

 

[Coward]

That's a good point. I think it's always fine to ask clarification for what's going on if you don't get it, but I don't think sending actual critique is a good idea. By that I mean a breakdown of their post where you point out the problems as you see them. Your earlier post was good in that regard.

On samples, your mileage may vary I guess. I find that if someone can send a decent sample it's unlikely that their normal writing standard will be totally incomprehensible (which seems to be the complaint here?). Their posts might occasionally be lacking in polish compared to whatever they send as a sample, but I think that's totally fine. There will be times in a long RP where I write tired or just have a bad day and my standard dips too.

 

[BackSet]

I don't think it's good policy to critique someone's writing unless requested

Unless, you know, you can't read it. While I'm still paranoid of being an asshole I feel there are situations in which you absolutely should critique someone's writing whether they ask or not (looking at you person who didn't put spaces after periods. Pretty sure that's what killed that roleplay).

If you care about writing quality maybe you could ask for a sample before hand?

Yeah, no. Samples are the worst. Especially when they ask me to write a paragraph about firing a gun. Like, why? Just write "He fired the gun."

 

[Idea]

I try to be upfront but adjust the framing. I'm quite picky with my partners, so there is often something or another that will just break it for me. If I'm turning down a partner I will tell them the reason in a straightforward fashion, but I will also try to frame it as "this is an issue I have". For instance, recently I had a partner come to me who had some pretty serious grammatical issues among a few others. Once I'd decided "no, this isn't the level I can tolerate" I explain that I didn't think things would work out, pointed out some of the concrete (always try to be concrete if you're giving your reasons, reasonable people will find it let insulting and maybe even be ale to improve from the criticism) issues I had with it, and explained that I was bothered by it, and that I was would have a hard time reading posts with those kinds of mistakes.

I guess now that I think about it, it's kind like the roleplay equivalent of "it's not you, it's me", but even if I called it framing I'm still being honest here...

Either way though, I think as long as you try to be polite and sincere there shouldn't be an issue. A lot of how the other person is going to take it is unfortunately out of your hands one way or another, as it will be dictated by how that person deals with being turned down (or at least I'm assuming this is over someone wanting to roleplay with you or in your group rather than it just being you randomly going to someone to give them an earful about their writing). Some people are more prone to taking things to heart or personally than others, and some are prone to overthinking things and start spinning whole threads with little prompting.

Regardless, best of luck with this matter!

 

[Sarevok]

For risk of sounding cheeky, I don't think there's ever a good way of telling someone "I don't like your writing" or "I can't read your writing". Even a critique or observations runs the risk of coming out as sounding condescending unless, as a poster has noted above, you've specifically been asked to do so. I know you've dismissed asking for writing samples, but how otherwise would you get an idea of whether or not you and someone else's styles match, or at the very least reading other posts by the poster to get a feel for how they write.

Personally, I don't think there's ever a scenario where commenting on someone else's writing is needed or warranted.

 

[BackSet]

It's not about style, it's about legibility and grammar. Unless you're writing in first person (in which case I actually do feel comfortable calling you out) or shakespearian english I couldn't give a damn about your style.

 

[nerdy tangents]

It's not about style, it's about legibility and grammar. Unless you're writing in first person (in which case I actually do feel comfortable calling you out) or shakespearian english I couldn't give a damn about your style.

When I said style I meant specifically that different punctuation styles are different.

like where you put a period or how you use quotation marks does change from country to country. It doesn’t mean the person is wrong grammatically in their own country, just that they are using a different style to say American English.

ex. The dialogue thing. They would make a new line with

- talk talk -

instead of using “ talk talk talk “ within the paragraph.

So the problem was actually just style. Cuz they don’t have the same version of quotation marks as I’m used to.

 

[Millfall]

- talk talk -

instead of using “ talk talk talk “ within the paragraph.

This is actually a proper way to write dialogs in many languages. I wouldn't be hurt by that.

However, writing super-long sentences, separated by commas, instead of putting a dot and writing a new sentence, thus creating monsters that spawn entire paragraphs, is quite annoying to read and, more often than not, I'd classify it as a stylistic mistake and syntax failure, with this sentence being a model example of how not to write.

Blocks of text hurt too.

 

[Cosmo]

Yeah, no. Samples are the worst. Especially when they ask me to write a paragraph about firing a gun. Like, why? Just write "He fired the gun."

That one is super easy, barely an inconvenience. Write the gun firing, the sound it makes, the casing it ejects and how it hits the floor, the way the gun bucks in their grip, how they feel, what happens, etc.

I remember back in Warcraft 3 days, there would be these roleplaying games, you'd join and instantly be hit with a, 'Roleplay X,' as they tested if you actually knew how. That... was rough. You had a time and word limit on those ones.

Generally speaking, rather then give someone a critique out of the blue, just ask for a sample, if it is a group roleplay, read their character sheet to get a feel for how they write, etc. Sometimes you're going to run into people who write in ways you don't, or don't like, either move to a different roleplay or suck it up. It is a hobby, after all, and no one is under any obligations to change how they write to better suit their partner. Plenty of fish, and roleplays, out there.

 

[Millfall]

Write the gun firing, the sound it makes, the casing it ejects and how it hits the floor, the way the gun bucks in their grip, how they feel, what happens, etc.

This is overly descriptive word padding.

 

[Cosmo]

This is overly descriptive word padding.

Depends on the context. If it's a soldier firing down a hallway? Sure. If it's a terrified person in the middle of a horrid situation about to do something they've never done before, that could change their life forever? That moment is going to stick with them. It is going to define them. Context matters. Somethings you want to dive into. Other things you do not. If they are asking you to write a paragraph on it, then, you know, think about it and then write accordingly.

 

[Millfall]

That moment is going to stick with them.

Or they won't even remember anything other than they were terrified. People in extreme situations aren't aware of what they are doing, that's how accidental gunshots and 100 stab wounds happen.

But I digress. For me, if I wanted a writing sample, I'd ask for literally anything. The more the merrier. Ideally, I'd just check the roleplay history of the person in question and whatever standalone works of fiction they wrote.

Unless I was looking for a specific style. Then I'd give a vague order such as "Write a terrifying scene in first person past tense" or "write a comedic scene in 3rd person present tense".

 

[Cosmo]

Or they won't even remember anything other than they were terrified. People in extreme situations aren't aware of what they are doing, that's how accidental gunshots and 100 stab wounds happen.

But I digress. For me, if I wanted a writing sample, I'd ask for literally anything. The more the merrier. Ideally, I'd just check the roleplay history of person in question, and whatever standalone works of fiction they wrote.

Unless I was looking for a specific style. Then I'd give a vague order such as "Write a terrifying scene in first person past tense" or "write a comedic scene in 3rd person present tense".

Then write that. Write that fear and panic, how the gun jolts them with its sound and its buck, that unfamiliar weight, how they clench their finger and it locks in panic as it fires round after round. If this is a major moment for the character, you can very easily use it to show their character, how they react, how it effects and changes them with the subtext.

If you envisioned the scene to be intense and important, then you kind of need to put in the work to convey that. If the gun firing is just in the backdrop to the rest then 'He fired down the hall,' works and is even ideal as you don't want to draw attention away from what matters to what doesn't.

There is a time and a place for everything, context in what is being written, why it is being written matters tremendously, but this has gotten off course.

 

[Millfall]

Then write that. Write that fear and panic, how the gun jolts them with its sound and its buck, that unfamiliar weight, how they clench their finger and it locks in panic as it fires round after round. If this is a major moment for the character, you can very easily use it to show their character, how they react, how it effects and changes them with the subtext.

Much better. Getting this kind of description would most certainly quality a pass from me. As opposed to a mere dry description of what the gun is physically doing, divorced from the character's emotional feedback and the context of the scene.

Being able to intervene action with the internal monologue, and utilizing the dreaded "show not tell" technique are all signs of a competent writer.

 

[Cosmo]

Much better. Getting this kind of description would most certainly quality a pass from me. As opposed to a mere dry description of what the gun is physically doing, divorced from the character's emotional feedback and the context of the scene.

Being able to intervene action with the internal monologue, and utilizing the dreaded "show not tell" technique are all signs of a competent writer.

Mate, my first post had, "how they feel, what happens, etc."

 

[BackSet]

That one is super easy, barely an inconvenience.

Hello fellow Pitch Meetings/Ryan George fan.

Also, I'm pretty sure that most countries have consistent punctuation.

I'll be honest, I'm asking this because of a current situation (though I will not name names) and am going based off of the way they wrote the history and personality sections of their character sheets, not their actual posts. Huh, now that I think about it, that's kind of like a writing sample.

 

[BackSet]

Capitalization. I meant capitalization.

 

[Millfall]

Also, I'm pretty sure that most countries have consistent punctuation.

They do. Most European languages have consistent punctuation rules that are very different from English rules.

So this sentence would look like that:

Most European languages have consistent punctuation rules, that are very different from English rules.

Most European grammars have the concept of a complex and simple sentence. The sentence is complex if it has more than one verb. In these languages, you're supposed to put a comma where one sentence ends and sub sentence begins. Thus, "Most European languages have consistent punctuation rules" is one sentence, and then you put a comma where the other sentence begins ", that are very different from English rules.".

Of course, putting a comma there in English language would be a mistake. Hence when non-english natives write in English, not knowing that punctuation rules are different, they create what's called a 'comma hell'.

Moreover,
However,
etc.

You're supposed to put a comma after these words in English. But not in German or Polish or whatever continental language you wanna examine.

The rules for writing quotes are different too.

"He said that", I exclaimed.

However, in other languages it would look like that:

—He said that.—

I exclaimed.

Or like that

[He said that.] I exclaimed.

Last but not least, traditionally, there are no European punctuation marks in a lot of languages that don't use Latin alphabet.

edit: capitalization rules are also different. For example, in German you write every noun with a capital letter. And in most European languages, you don't capitalize every word in book or chapter title.

 

[GojiBean]

In general, I don't critique someone's work unless they either ask for the critique or have made it clear somewhere that they're open to it.

If I see either of those things, I'll shoot them a PM and say "Hey, I'm excited to RP with you! Do you mind if I bring up a few things I saw in your writing to critique and discuss?"

If they sound enthusiastic to discuss and learn, I'll point things out such as little grammar mistakes, spelling errors, or other kinds of general tips and tricks to help them clean their writing up. If they seem hesitant or at all reserved about it despite having said they'd welcome it in the beginning, I usually back off and say "No worries."

I try to adapt and adjust to the personality of the person I'm talking to as best I can. Not necessarily because I'm afraid to sound like a jerk. But because I know that most people in an online situation are much more defensive about what they consider to be sensitive topics about themselves and, for whatever reason, are far less inclined to respond positively than they would if it were a face-to-face environment. Most likely because there's no tone of voice, body language, or facial expressions to pick up on. So the full context of the conversation is lost in the wording on the page. Whatever tone their mind reads it in is the tone they think you're using in most cases.

So trying to keep things friendly and calm usually yields the best results in my experience. And again, only if it's been made clear that the person is either open to or looking for critique. Otherwise, it's best to bite your tongue and just let them be them as much as your brain feels like it's being stabbed with an icepick every time you see another mistake in their posts.

Cheers!