Viewpoint Hot take: Multi-paragraph posts are unproductive

[Kazami42]

Let's not forget that one Human's fluff is another bot's legit wants. While it could be subjective, we have to question what one thinks "fluff" is. For example, I view what I believe is true fluff? as like a twenty liner that describes a person scratching their posterior for five minutes straight, for example. It'd be fine to me if it was more so three lines, rather than half a year of watching Naruto in comparison [Filler.] But someone else might think useless filler is over half a post, dedicated solely to detailing how a helmet looks, works, and what it's made of. While a discussional point, is it worth arguing?


Man, we straight outta orbital bunkers for this. Can't we all just take a flower and recompose?

 

[Dov]

That's a really good point. This discussion got me thinking about how some of my characters get long winded because the characters themselves are kind of rambling or cyclical by nature. I've got this one guy who's on the autism scale, not deep on it, but he tends to circle back on the same thought several times and his thoughts tend to be loud. It makes more sense to write out what he's thinking and to let those thoughts get fluffy because that's how his brain is and it expands on his character. It's intentional fluff that suits his character and helps one get into his mindset. Alternately, I've got a secretive guy whose survival has relied on being quiet and performative, so I almost never voice his inner monologues because it's very much against his character. His posts end up on the short side, and that cold, unclear aspect suits his character.
A similar situation to the first mentioned, my favorite plot is set in a desert. Posts that kind of meander off work to establish the vibe of the desert. That being said, descriptions of the vacant surroundings should definitely NOT appear in each post.

 

[Idea]

Alternately, I've got a secretive guy whose survival has relied on being quiet and performative, so I almost never voice his inner monologues because it's very much against his character.

I don't understand, why would someone quieter have less inner monologue?

 

[Dov]

It detracts from his character concept to know what's on his mind. His character is much better when you only see his actions. He doesn't get a lot of screen time because he's not especially engaging on his own, but it adds a lot to catch him staggering down a hallway, or abruptly change in personality without much explanation.

 

[Idea]

It detracts from his character concept to know what's on his mind. His character is much better when you only see his actions. He doesn't get a lot of screen time because he's not especially engaging on his own, but it adds a lot to catch him staggering down a hallway, or abruptly change in personality without much explanation.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Fenris]

Woah, lots of really intriguing arguments being brought up in this thread! Though I'm honestly rather surprised by the hard line attitude regarding listed length requirements here than anything else. Sure when putting down rules you expect people to follow them and vice versa but I've always seen length requirements as more of a guideline than hard rule. Matching the amount of content/length of your partner always seemed like an appropriate expectation and minimum paragraph length tends to be kind of a heads up as to what you're getting into.

Perhaps my experience is unique but people tend not to care about the length of posts so much once everyone is invested in the story and keeps things flowing by providing enough points to spark the others creativity. If you're getting enough out of the post to inspire a reply, it's secondary if that inspiration was due to a single paragraph. If you're struggling to keep things going because there's nothing to work with it doesn't matter if there's a page of fluff about golden pens in someones pocket.

While entirely logical and understandable,

I am antagonistic about it because as soon as I see a requirement like that, I either have to assume that they mean it, in which case they're prone to fluff and lack subtlety, or they don't mean it and therefore don't mean what they say in general, which is just as unworkable.

is a bit too rigid of a mind set. If you'd like to RP with a wider variety of people just give them a shot; bounce a few posts back and forth or take a minute to discuss things on discord etc. they might be more amiable to see things your way.

 

[Dov]

I can see how people would be loose about it, but I'm of the mindset that you ought to say what you mean, and that rules are there for a reason. Rules are boundaries, and boundaries are tantamount to everything else in any interaction with other people, especially with strangers. I'm positive I don't want a wider variety of people, I want a very narrow subset of people who follow rules, write well, and care about pleasure derived from participating in the rp.

 

[Fenris]

In that case it would seem like minimum paragraph length actually works out very well for you? I mean it easily narrows your searches down to that subset of people who follow rules, say what they mean and enjoy rp'ing. Saving you the time of having to fine comb through 1x1 searches by being a clear dis-qualifier. It works well for Idea ensuring people put the amount of fluff/scene detail or development into her rp's to be considered enjoyable and it works for me as a reasonable heads up of what to expect from people posting these searches.

Does it work well as a type of quality assurance? Probably not, nobody so far seem to think it does. It simply has some value as another metric to help people find like minded writers. At least that's what I've taken away from this thread.

 

[Dov]

I think you're right about the last bit. That beings said, it would work terribly for me because I very much dislike consistently long posts and any pressure to create them. If I were to do an interest check, a more productive rule for me to post would be 'Must never have posted an interest check that included a post length minimum rerqirement.'

 

[Idea]

I think you're right about the last bit. That beings said, it would work terribly for me because I very much dislike consistently long posts and any pressure to create them. If I were to do an interest check, a more productive rule for me to post would be 'Must never have posted an interest check that included a post length minimum rerqirement.'

I would say, yeah that's fine. If that is your preference, you have every right to put it in your interest check as such, and I wish you the best of luck in meeting great partners that meet your criteria.

That said, if I may, perhaps I could propose instead "must not require a post length minimum" as a rule instead? This way you are not excluding people who once used a post length minimum, but changed their mind as they gained experience and learned more about their writing style.

 

[cadence]

bruh

 

[Grey]

Better use of words >>>>>> more words

FWIW I explicitly include 'no post length or literacy requirements, just post enough to keep things moving and with enough clarity for everyone else to follow' in my interest checks. I mean, don't give me bland one-line actions, but don't write me more than a thousand words unless I'm paying you.

 

[calypso]

Hot take: Whenever this conversation or topic comes up every few months, it's always the same repetitive argument.


RPing is subjective. Just because you don't like how something is written doesn't make it bad. Short posts aren't bad. Long posts aren't bad. You don't have to like any of them, but I feel like it's irking to have this topic always come up so one group can hate on another's writing style or bring it down. (Both ways. I see longer writers shit on shorter writers and vice-versa.) It feels like a thinly veiled way to be shitty about how other's write because it doesn't personally agree with you.

But that's just my opinion, like this whole dang thing!

 

[LazyDaze]

I kinda stated my piece already but I’d like to reiterate that long posts and short posts are not inherently bad. What I dislike is a line in the sand telling me I have to write either way. (It’s not an absolute it e dealbreaker since I write that much anyway) Although I have never seen it, I would be just as irritated if someone told me I could not exceed a page just as much as if someone told me I have to post minimum at least 2 paragraphs EVERY post. I saw some great points in the thread and I have personally experienced being in an RP that had a post length requirement but was laid back about it. I can say I’m sooooo glad I joined it although I was initially going to pass it up. I don’t think it’s an issue “to not say what they mean”. They probably want a certain type of writing and the ppl who look it over and step into their interest check will usually be the kind of writers they wanted. Are they probably missing out on some good writers? Yep, we are also probably missing out on some good RPs. I don’t think the actual argument is that short posts are better than long posts, but rather the effect that certain constriction has on writing. Not all constriction is bad. I’ve seen an RP that was like “no demons” cuz it was overplayed. Sure some ppl were salty but that’s what they want so hey. Lol these debates are always pretty fun to me.

sidenote: I can’t tell u when or where but someone legit had like a 4-5 paragraph minimum for their interest check a long time ago like when I first joined the site...maybe it was another site. Think that might be where my understanding nature meets its limit. Lol

 

[calypso]

Forgot to add on:
I also don't think anyone is 'missing out' on a good partner because someone has a minimum or maximum for how much they want to write. Their writing styles wouldn't match, and one person would ultimately be compromising to make the other person satisfied.
Just don't try to RP with people you don't match your personal taste. I feel like I'm extra salty this time around seeing the thread because it ALWAYS dissolves at some point into someone saying one style is shitty or someone is missing out. And again, that's just my opinion on it.

Since everything here is opinion based.

 

[Dov]

Lol, labeled it hot take knowing most people would not agree with it, at least not completely. Your hot take is 'no take'. What I've gathered from this conversation (not argument) is that many who post length minimums are trying to ensure quality. We've determined that it's not a consistent measure of quality because of the dangers of fluff. We've discussed the definition of 'fluff'. Your take is 'shut up'. If you don't have anything to say about a topic, why are you here? Take your salt elsewhere, don't make yourself miserable.

 

[Grey]

I'm sorry, but you're all wrong. Especially the people who agree with me.

I am not answering questions at this time.

Spoiler

This is a joke, to lighten the mood a tad

 

[rae2nerdy]

Lol, labeled it hot take knowing most people would not agree with it, at least not completely. Your hot take is 'no take'. What I've gathered from this conversation (not argument) is that many who post length minimums are trying to ensure quality. We've determined that it's not a consistent measure of quality because of the dangers of fluff. We've discussed the definition of 'fluff'. Your take is 'shut up'. If you don't have anything to say about a topic, why are you here? Take your salt elsewhere, don't make yourself miserable.

I would say people are actually directly telling you it isn't about quality? Like that seems to be your assumption. Everyone else is saying it's about personal preference.

 

[Dov]

I would argue that personal preference and quality are one and the same. We all prefer quality (as we define it), yeah?

 

[LazyDaze]

Forgot to add on:
I also don't think anyone is 'missing out' on a good partner because someone has a minimum or maximum for how much they want to write. Their writing styles wouldn't match, and one person would ultimately be compromising to make the other person satisfied.
Just don't try to RP with people you don't match your personal taste. I feel like I'm extra salty this time around seeing the thread because it ALWAYS dissolves at some point into someone saying one style is shitty or someone is missing out. And again, that's just my opinion on it.

Since everything here is opinion based.

I’d have to disagree. Not liking paragraph minimums does not inherently mean your writing style wouldn’t match. This is more of a philosophy (principle?) issue when it comes to writing. There were a few RP’s I almost didn’t join and had I skipped it I would have missed out and based on the feedback from the group they would have as well. We all have our preferences because we just discussed that many don’t even adhere to the post requirements they set forth. I joined an RP against my preference and turns out our writing styles matched after all.

 

[calypso]

Lol, labeled it hot take knowing most people would not agree with it, at least not completely. Your hot take is 'no take'. What I've gathered from this conversation (not argument) is that many who post length minimums are trying to ensure quality. We've determined that it's not a consistent measure of quality because of the dangers of fluff. We've discussed the definition of 'fluff'. Your take is 'shut up'. If you don't have anything to say about a topic, why are you here? Take your salt elsewhere, don't make yourself miserable.

I've already read a few posts here indirectly implying insult to another person's writing style. As rae said, people are directly saying it is personal preference. Personal preference and quality are not the same.

I prefer free verse poetry over rhymed poetry. Does not mean free verse poetry is of higher quality than rhymed poetry, and vice-versa. A one line is response will most likely be the same standard quality as a paragraph response if it's legible. However, it is my preference to write more than one line. I came onto this thread to say that I've seen this exact post before, and it always dissolves into indirect insults and even direct insults over writing styles. You quite literally proved my point with your reply.

Because again, this is all an opinion. There's no objective rule to RPing written down in some old novel. It's like someone writing in first person vs. third person. I prefer one over the other, but that doesn't mean the post being created is bad or as you put it, unproductive. Productivity is subjective here since it's all about what you and your partner want to do and see. The only person who should determine if your style is productive or not is you.

 

[calypso]

I’d have to disagree. Not liking paragraph minimums does not inherently mean your writing style wouldn’t match. This is more of a philosophy (principle?) issue when it comes to writing. There were a few RP’s I almost didn’t join and had I skipped it I would have missed out and based on the feedback from the group they would have as well. We all have our preferences because we just discussed that many don’t even adhere to the post requirements they set forth. I joined an RP against my preference and turns out our writing styles matched after all.

I'm saying that if someone set a five paragraph minimum, and someone was upset to see that because it meant they couldn't be that person's partner due to the fact they only write a few lines per reply, I don't think either person in the party is missing out on writing with each other. They don't match in style and preference, and both parties would much better prefer someone who was on the same wave-length as them. Now obviously this doesn't apply to every situation since someone might take a chance either way and find they prefer it, but as a general rule of thumb I feel like if it wasn't meant to be, it wasn't meant to be.

 

[Idea]

Not liking paragraph minimums does not inherently mean your writing style wouldn’t match.

While it is true that it does not inherently mean that, from an empirical perspective it does heavily tend to be that way. Someone's writing style influences the length of their posts and how easily they reach a given length, this in turn plays a big part in whether someone is or isn't ok with post lengths. Someone who likes to be more to the point and focus more on action than description and scene is going to have a harder time justifying and crafting posts that are as large as someone who is more long-winded and descriptive by nature. For one person 2 paragraphs is a chore to get through, for another it may a breeze. Which isn't to say that someone who dislikes a length minimum but still passes it naturally can't or doesn't exist, but they are such a minority comparatively that length minimums are an actually effective tactic to use.

I would argue that personal preference and quality are one and the same. We all prefer quality (as we define it), yeah?

If we assume this premise - that personal preference matches quality- then indeed this:

We've determined that it's not a consistent measure of quality because of the dangers of fluff.

is false. If "quality" equals "preference" then post length minimums are a consistent measure of 'quality'. That is quite simply the biggest reason why they are so widely used, because for better or for worse, they actually get the job done.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I would argue that personal preference and quality are one and the same. We all prefer quality (as we define it), yeah?

Not really. The word quality brings to mind some kind of conflict. That there is inherently something better in one way of doing things over another. I don't view my preferences in that light. I don't think they are a better way of doing things than their opposite. I just happen to prefer them because they make a roleplay more enjoyable for me.

 

[Dov]

Strongly disagree. Since post length minimums don't ensure stylistic similarity and deter what quality comes with short posts, they don't comply consistently with preference. If one's preference is florid language and extensive inner monologues, then one is more likely to ensure stylistic matches by saying as much. In that situation, one avoids both fluff and deterring quality posts, and is more likely to ensure stylistic similarity. In keeping with the value of a good, short post: Say what you mean.

rae2nerdy So you feel that the definition of quality is objective rather than subjective and that creates an inherent issue with using a rule to create 'quality'? Also, love the tiny dapper shark in your av. It looks so happy!