Hopping Bunnies, Running Swordsmen.

cyl

cyl

Creepy smile
Now that I have thougth about it...


You can make a move action while attacking.


Considering you have dex 5, athletics 5, and Ligthing Speed (add Athletics to your movement spending motes on excellencies increases it further) active, you can move 10 yards with each attack.


How do you consider the effect of movement on an attack ?


Does the movement stop when the target is hit or can the character continue to move after he slashed his opponent ?


I wonder... because this could clearly be a data in a combat, the ability to hit someone or not.


Let's say you fight against a 4 dex opponent, every time you attack you cross him and go 5 yards away, he has to loose an action to come and get you (probably a guard action+ move), delaying by a tick his attack.


Now, picture this, but with Athletics Essence Flow, and stunting... and other powers (artifacts/HS)


Most Solar martial artists and light armored swordsmen would take advantage of such techniques to stay away from their opponents, delaying their attacks by 3+ ticks, while hitting them.


I haven't study Lunar movement charms, but I guess there should be some horrible stuff to do with them too.
 
*smiles*


That was precisely the tactic that Aria used against the fey in Tome's PBP game. :lol:


Movement + hitting REALLY hard.
 
Funny huh, I was thinking about using it in your game ! ;)


This is not like THE ultimate technique, but it really sucks to fight such a character.


I always played on movement on kung fu games, but hadn't tested it yet on exalted 2e.


I was thinking this more as an option "hit & run" for light damage speed 4 characters against heavy & slow damage speed 5-6 opponents.
 
And the beauty of it all is that the moment you apply movement enhancement effects, it gets really bad.


This is what makes fly by attacks really bad.
 
Move is a reflexive 'action' that you can do without needing to flurry. It's when you DASH (for extra distance), that you need to flurry.
 
Haku said:
Move is a reflexive 'action' that you can do without needing to flurry. It's when you DASH (for extra distance), that you need to flurry.
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Basically, what I'm not getting here is why would someone have to DELAY their action if you can just move and attack?


Edit: Nevermind, I think I get it... I was just reasoning it wrong.
 
Can't you just flurry your attack/move?
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Dude... that's the whole point... you don't have to.


I fight a dex 4 adversary, and I have the above mentionned stats... I move 10 yards per action AND I attack, he can only move 4 yards and attack.


So basically it goes like this:


I attack, and move 5 yards back/away... he goes "ouch you bastard... now it's my turn... duh, I can't reach you !"...


Trick question now... how much ticks is a passive action ? I think it would be a guard action + move (since 3 ticks is the minimum speed for actions).


So I get speed 4, against a speed 5 attacker, he will be able to hit me every 8 ticks (3+5), so for one attack he makes, I get two.


And the distance can easily be raised.


Ban...kai !
 
Yes, but that's no unheard of technique. You can do it even easier with a long reach bow and lots of space to keep running. It's not the absolute badass technique because of other factors you have to consider. First, the environment. There are not many places where you can keep moving like that for very long. Second, the defender character could probably just keep aiming until the attacker attacks, and then attack him precisely when he hits (I don't know how the rules cover it, but it does make sense). It can be even funner if you stunt it.


Oh, and if a player got near-invincible doing that, the ST could just make him face enemies with range weapons (or flying ones, or similar things) more often.
 
Unless you can run past his Dash distance, he can flurry a Dash/attack. He'd be at a disadvantage, but superior speed should do that to him, after all. And he;d be attacking as often as his Speed allowed. If you can move past his Dash distance without using your own Dash, you should be owning him easily. This is a fairly balanced use of combat rules, and if you abuse it, like if you abuse anything else, the owl will eat you.
 
This is part of why Full Moons are supposed to be great warriors. Their anima is good for more than just lifting yeddim.
 
Arthur said:
Second, the defender character could probably just keep aiming until the attacker attacks, and then attack him precisely when he hits (I don't know how the rules cover it, but it does make sense).
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Pretty much. Whenever you hit him, he can hit you.


Of course, this strategy lets you abuse the hell out of the R tag on weapons, since if your opponent's weapon doesn't have it, you -can- hit him over and over and he'll never be able to hit you back, at least not without a R or ranged weapon of his own...
 
Arthur: aiming doesn't quite does it. First it's a 3 ticks action, and it gives you a -1 DV, if you abort it you loose the bonus of aiming, and you don't refresh your DV, so when you are doing this, your at -2 DV if you try a simultaneous attack. Not a viable option.


There are no rules for simultaneous attacks, but the corebook suggests the faster (the one who has the larger value Wits+Awareness) acts first.


Nemal: the R tag has nothing to do with length (stupidly), but with height. The R tag supresses the higher ground and mounted opponents penalties.


Plus I forgot to mention one thing, the limited movements of the attacker.


Let's say you're on open ground, a speed 4 character with a speed 5.


Join battle, speed 4 takes initiative, speed 5 acts on T3.


T0 speed 4 attacks and moves 5 yards away


T3 speed 5 makes a guard action and moves to the direction where speed 4 is


T4 speed 4 attacks and moves 5 yards away in a different direction


T6 speed 5 has to make another guard action and move to the new location


T8 speed 4 attacks and moves 5 yards away in a different direction


This is endless.


Of course, you could still guard and abort for simultaneous actions... that works, depending on the difference of ticks on the Join Battle roll, but it can be quite dangerous if you have a large difference of ticks and a speed 5 weapon.
 
unless of course speed 5 doesn't take a move action and makes speed 4 come to him, then it becomes somewhat less endless.


but then again, this is what charms like foot trapping counter are for
 
That's what I meant: taking a guard action and letting the speed 4 to come is a viable option.


But it's dangerous, because if you synchronize your attacks once, you'll face 2 attacks (one on the simultaneous actions, the other 4 ticks later while your DV hasn't refreshed).


When your DV refreshes, the speed 4 will still be away, and you'll loose 2 ticks to do it all over again.


You are forced in to defense, unless you have movement enhancers.
 
DV does not refresh though (same page). So aiming gives you - 1DV, attacking gives you -1DV.


When the speed 4 go for it, you're at -2DV, then 4 ticks later, your DV hasn't refreshed, and he attacks again and you can't.


You gain 1 to 3 die on Acc, but loose 2 on DV for two attacks... cheap trade I think.


Of course stunting is always an option, I never presented this technique as the ultimate fighting technique. Just as a mean to force an opponent into defense while using the best of the low speed and movement charms and gain advantage over him.


Charms as Fivefold Bulwark Stance totally erase the DV penalty, so the only thing left is that the speed 4 character can make two attacks on a speed 5 character who can only make one.
 
I guess I just misunderstood your post and thought you misunderstood that concept, from your phrasing I thought you meant you had to wait the whole 3 ticks. Everything else seemed fine and I knew what you were saying, The DV is a tradeoff thing.
 
magnificentmomo said:
I guess I just misunderstood your post and thought you misunderstood that concept, from your phrasing I thought you meant you had to wait the whole 3 ticks. Everything else seemed fine and I knew what you were saying, The DV is a tradeoff thing.
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It was pretty confusing how you presented it at first, Cyl. Really, though, aiming and/or guarding are effective ways to catch the bastard as (s)he moves past to attack, and it can make for some interesting cinematics.


Thank you, this is an idea that I hadn't considered before.
 
I'm sorry if I was ambiguous earlier.


Considering this can apply to every exalt, and few are as protected by their charm as the solars are, the only safe option when you are the speed 5 character is the guard... -2DV while aiming is too dangerous IMHO, considering the attacker can make a flurry on his two attacks.


And yeah it makes good cinematics :)
 
Well, we are supposing a very generic situation. If, for example, the guarding character has soak 12+, he won't generally have to care that much about having low DV. In a system as flexible as Exalted (depends on the Storyteller and bla bla bla, but yes, it is), it's hard to make such generic simulations.
 
Just a thought, couldn't the slower character interleave wait+aim with counterattack charms? Although, presumably the faster character also has a higher rate weapon.


-cdi
 
Well considering they're likely to have the same package of charms (HGD-Counterattack), they are equals.


The only thing is that the speed 5 character can't get close to his opponent to hit, and has to wait/aim until he gets in range.


But that's more power to the speed 4 character if every attack blows a combo with HGD & Counterattack.
 
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