Fabricant
m e m e b o i
I read all of that. There's no need for such a sarcastic response. Still doesn't justify insults, that's all I was saying on the matter. That's why threads get shut down.
Opinion Historical Thread. "Questioning the WW2."
- Thread starter MarinesThePsychoticReaper
- Start date
I read all of that. There's no need for such a sarcastic response. Still doesn't justify insults, that's all I was saying on the matter. That's why threads get shut down.
Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
Both of you are right
And
Both of you are wrong.
But neither of you are in the middle.
While you figure that out, I'm just gonna go through your stuff.
[Insert 75 cents to continue]
And
Both of you are wrong.
But neither of you are in the middle.
While you figure that out, I'm just gonna go through your stuff.
[Insert 75 cents to continue]
Bacon is fluffy
Wut'n th'name of davy jonez lockr is uh sall-add?
Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
[INSUFFICIENT FUNDS]
[NEED 50 MORE CENTS TO CONTINUE]
MarinesThePsychoticReaper
Resistance Member
Enough with the drama now.
How about we go back on topic of the Japanese though? I'm intrested on hearing more about it. See i got European front covered but not so much for American pacific front. Especialy when it comes to japanese point of view.
How about we go back on topic of the Japanese though? I'm intrested on hearing more about it. See i got European front covered but not so much for American pacific front. Especialy when it comes to japanese point of view.
adrian_
julie my beloved 🥰
*claps*
Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
Or, more specifically, the American incarceration of every Japanese-American?
*bows*
MarinesThePsychoticReaper
Resistance Member
Yeah exacly. What went on in those Kamikatze pillots minds before they did what they did?
Axel The Englishman
The Holy Crusader
Why do I, for some reason, have some repeating thought that the Kamikaze pilots just went "SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" when they were making the pair final and fatal descent?
CastoffCaptain
Obsess. Hunt. Manipulate. Repeat.
I want more Sano WWII prose poetry.
Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
A haiku, by Squidanoward.
They tried to bomb us
To torp, to sink, to swarm us
But they missed the oil.
They tried to bomb us
To torp, to sink, to swarm us
But they missed the oil.
Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
They messed it all up;
They hit our ships and planes, but
what about repair?
Was the luck a stroke?
Our aircraft carriers were gone,
so they hit more planes.
Their submarine too,
it could launch five minisubs, but
why? They could hold 2!
Yamamoto said,
"I'll run wild for 6 months,
but after, we'll lose."
They hit our ships and planes, but
what about repair?
Was the luck a stroke?
Our aircraft carriers were gone,
so they hit more planes.
Their submarine too,
it could launch five minisubs, but
why? They could hold 2!
Yamamoto said,
"I'll run wild for 6 months,
but after, we'll lose."
Castelo Branco
26th Brazilian President
So, uh, hello.
Personally from what I think, Kamikaze pilots were the greatest hero of their nation, due to them sacrificing themselves for it while taking the nation's enemies down with them.
And what went through their head from my understanding is that they will be (and were) considered the greatest heros of their nations and that they received the ultimate glory and honor one could receive without being the Emperor themselves... and they died fighting for their leader (Emperor Hirohito)
Personally from what I think, Kamikaze pilots were the greatest hero of their nation, due to them sacrificing themselves for it while taking the nation's enemies down with them.
And what went through their head from my understanding is that they will be (and were) considered the greatest heros of their nations and that they received the ultimate glory and honor one could receive without being the Emperor themselves... and they died fighting for their leader (Emperor Hirohito)
MarinesThePsychoticReaper
Resistance Member
Indeed. Although how the generation was prepared also had a play in this. Japan for a long time haven't had a war on such a big scale. So the Japanese to show their pride had to win at all costs. Winning such a large scale war with the American allied forces would be a major achievement for them and if not for the nuclear bombs they would be the ones to actually win that war.
Bacon is fluffy
Wut'n th'name of davy jonez lockr is uh sall-add?
Except in the context of the situation, they're not freedom fighters. They're not resistance fighters. Hell they're not even "morally sound revolutionists". They were dying and sacrificing themselves for what was an imperialist goal. My great grand father respected those soldiers for their zeal,but let's not conflate their actions with heroism.
Without any resources and their country being bombed to smithereens, with russia, the americans and the rest of asia at their door step. How would an isolated japan win the war?
MarinesThePsychoticReaper
Resistance Member
Ok so Imagine that Nuclear bombs aren't a thing. Then in that scenario, the war would go on for much much longer. Which could lead to Japan's victory if American allied forces had run out of money to continue the war. Remember that At the same time American allied forces are busy with operations in Europe (or at least the consideration of involvement.) Which remember they began their operations in 1944. At the same time, the operations on the Pacific front were going on. So yeah. Japan had the possibility of winning since it focused on one war. Russians were focused on another front to interfere with pacific front operations.
As the Germans were close to overtaking them, so they had to put everything on their counter-offensive.
So in summary. Just because Japan didn't win that war doesn't mean there wasn't a possibility of actually winning it.
Bacon is fluffy
Wut'n th'name of davy jonez lockr is uh sall-add?
I almost can't believe what I'm reading. Japan had no more factories, american bombers were flying over japan and landing in china. They had no infrastructure to continue the war effort. They had no navy after losing the war with the Americans. Their forces were being uprooted and defeated from island to island. There was nothing left the battered Japanese people could do without the industrial build up needed to fight back. Which was an impossibility without American steel.
Remember, pearl harbor was a middle finger to the US because they didn't want to sell more materials including steel to the nippon war machine.
We're talking about all of asia and russia as well, bearing down upon a small island chain we call a country. The modern civilized world was going to have to invade and slaughter this nation of zealots if they didnt surrender. It would have been a costly toll,but nothing that could have prevented war machines already warmed up and primed for another invasion.
Now if you still believe the Japanese had a chance after this. Then you're one hell of a revisionist.
MarinesThePsychoticReaper
Resistance Member
Thank you for clearing this out. Yeah now looking at this, they didn't had any chance and the nukes were dropped to ensure early victory.
Anyways. You made a good point. Sorry for me being a miss informed idiot. But hey that's why this thread exist. So everyone could learn something.
Bacon is fluffy
Wut'n th'name of davy jonez lockr is uh sall-add?
You're not an idiot. Don't apologize or conflate ignorance with a lack of intelligence. You can always read up and find more information on the topic. You can always inform yourself and dabble in facts rather than intuition. It's yer choice how to approach topics like these in the future.
MarinesThePsychoticReaper
Resistance Member
I always take Theoricial approach when it comes to anything and based on theories i move into realism checking if the theory. A) Could be used as a valid real life scenario and B) if it made sense/change given the provided information on the orignal situation.
The Gunrunner
Elder Member
Minor note.
I could be wrong, but I don't think I am - It was oil, not steel. And the pear harbour was less a middle finger and more military strategy; they wanted to invade the Dutch East Indies for their oil (needed in a sense, as it was a requirement for their desire to form an empire), but the USA moved a fleet nearby to threaten military intervention. Japan needed oil and wouldn't be able to supply even the tanks already in the field with the insufficient income, so they hit Pearl Harbor and took the oil.
According to History Buffs on 'Tora, Tora, Tora' anyway.
Bacon is fluffy
Wut'n th'name of davy jonez lockr is uh sall-add?
Theory is intellectual garbage. The difference between fact and theory, is fact is fact and theory is intentionally designed to be incorrect.
How U.S. Economic Warfare Provoked Japan's Attack on Pearl Harbor - Robert Higgs
It's raw materials in general. Japan had nothing native in their country. They were importing everything.
edit: Perhaps this is the wrong link to quote. This guy is a Japanese sympathizer in the second half of the post.
MarinesThePsychoticReaper
Resistance Member
Which explains why they would lose the war either way. Either to lack of resources to push it or lack of equipment for soliders.
The Gunrunner
Elder Member
Don't think that matters. The history he's giving may be to make the USA look bad, but it was specifically on trade and isn't false as far as I know. This did also make me remember that Japan does still need to import a lot of steel, so I think the point about resources is still valid.
Regardless, I was specifically talking about Pearl Harbor there. Apologies if that wasn't clear. The attack was because they needed to invade the East Indies, but they were under US protection. They needed to invade them for oil, though I will say now it's likely false it was just oil. Still, that was the main thing for this specific attack. I don't disagree that there's more to consider than just the oil problem in regards to why they would have lost the war anyway.
Bacon is fluffy
Wut'n th'name of davy jonez lockr is uh sall-add?
It does matter if the lens of the writing is through revisionist point of view. It's just fortunate that his section on the economic challenges of the situation were mostly correct.
My main point would be that's disregarding the fact that they were importing from the US. The US denied them the ability to continue their war effort at full steam and posed a threat to their entire operation. Even if that were true about the east indies, it does ignore the embargo. Unlike modern day embargoes on iran which literally do nothing, their societal efforts won't collapse without US trade. Japan's position was at this point in time was literally jeopardized when their supplies were cut off.
Real reason Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor
According to these guys there were european colonies up for grabs. Not sure how credible this source is either,but I had never thought of that angle before.
