Help me out; I don't know how to handle this.

[Burpcycle]

I have a Night Caste Solar who uses Thrown and Dodge. I want to be able to beat a Full Moon Lunar who uses MA, but primarily grapples, with some freaky strong damage due to perfected kata bracers and CotSM. Both of us are Essence 4.


The problem with Seven Shadow Evasion is that it activates before grapples are rolled, and once I'm grabbed I'm essentially useless because I can't escape a grapple unless he botches. What can I do about this? I can't simply keep out of melee range because he can dash 16 yards per tick while my maximum range is 25 yards, and I can't just spam Triple Distance Attack Technique.


What can I do about this?

 

[Kyeudo]

Realize that because your Perfect Dodge goes off before the grapple is rolled, that means he never, ever touched you. As long as you spam your perfect against every grapple attempt he makes, he can't grapple you.


But yes, if he grapples you, you are screwed.

 

[Burpcycle]

Won't that kill my mote pool quickly?

 

[Brickwall]

Yep. But you'll burn off his Health pool steadily enough, unless he is also burning motes. And as a Solar, you kind of win that game.

 

[cyl]

Don't you have a combo of some sort ? Poisons ? Artifacts ?


If not, then your only option is to spam flurries and hope to wound him enough while spamming 7SE to protect yourself, cool part is that you have two opportunities to stunt and regen motes.

 

[Burpcycle]

I took mostly stealth and larceny charms. I have a homebrew artifact throwing weapon. He's pure combat built; not a single non-combat charm, and he has an anti-surprise attack/PD/leap away combo to break surprise flurries. I don't know if I have more motes than he does.

 

[cyl]

Leaping away won't help him one bit if you are using throwing wepons :roll:


... unless he can jump further than your maximum range... which is possible, but doubtful... and he would have to cross that distance again to get you, leaving probably an opportunity to use a charm.


My advice, always run + flurry, try to (as much as I hate to say it) spam ping damage, and be veeery careful of his actions, if you see a window of opportunity (you can have another full action cycle before he does) do not hesitate to use attack charms, your ST should award taking calculated risks.


If you are not yet caught in the fight, do not hesitate to play dirty... poison, smoke grenades, fire, called shots to get him penalties (visions & movement).

 

[Burpcycle]

Surprise attacks don't work on him, and he can run faster than I can escape. If I had Lightning Speed, that might make the difference, but I still can't attack a farther distance than he can move, rendering it useless.

 

[cyl]

You discarded surprise attacks as an option so I wasn't counting on it... Essence 4, martial arts and PKB... your ST did not make this easy for you. :|


What's your range / damage / DV, is he wearing armor, and do you have an idea of his soak / DV ?

 

[Burpcycle]

25 yards, 11L, 10 Dodge. He doesn't wear armor, but I don't know his soak. I know his highest DV is 8, so I have that advantage.

 

[cyl]

Ok, so you can throw stuff at him up to 75 yards (with a -2 external penalty)... he can seriously cover that distance and attack you in one action ?


What's the background for the fight ? maybe you could use it to play hide and seek (even if unexpected attacks won't help you...)... do you have time to prepare the fight ?

 

[Burpcycle]

I can get a sneak attack and it's an area where I can constantly reapply stealth if I can manage to reestablish surprise. I know he has a per+awareness of 6, so since I have stealth 5 and dex 5, I have an obvious advantage there, but I have no charms to improve my ability to reestablish surprise.


He can cover a lot of distance; 16 yards per tick, without stunts. No idea how he does it, but he does. It almost makes me regret taking thrown instead of archery.

 

[cyl]

Ok so here's the deal.


Countering unexpected attacks do not mean "I know where my enemy is".


If you are hidden before combat starts, use Observer Decieving Attack on the first and third attack to mess with his mind.


If you're lucky and he has a poor wits+awa pool. you'll get a few opportunities to land a few good attacks at him, wounding him in the process, lowering his pool through wound penalties (and possibly poison if you can acquire some).


You can flurry attack + hide (misc action) and if you have stealth essence flow, then I recommend using a few motes to remain undetected as long as possible.


The trick is to stay hidden and reestablish surprise to attack + hide as much as possible (batman begins like).


Once he has spotted you, he will come for you in close combat and you won't be able to shake him off and it will become a boring battle of luck and motes.


But if you can install some traps (smoke, fire, damaging traps) in the area and prepare ahead for the fight, then you should win.

 

[Brickwall]

Depending on how much time to set up the area you have, you can pull some serious ninja tricks.


Example: mannequins (well, closer to scarecrows, probably) behind cover. All the figures in the shadows and only one of 'em is gonna be the one he actually has to attack. Always fun.


Also, traps. Scroll of Kings. Gotta love it.


Oh, and if you keep attacking from surprise, he has to use magic to protect himself. That is NOT something to ignore. Meanwhile, YOU can re-establish surprise very well, especially if you're sure to describe it well enough for at least a 1-die stunt every turn. Also, stunts help you regain motes, should you choose to use Charms to aid you.


Stealth fighting is very much an option in Exalted. You just have to decide to use it instead of straight combat, which most people default to.

 

[Kyeudo]

I'd like to point out that the Solar has the advantage as long as he has enough dice to reliably hit the Lunar. The Lunar will be making grapple attacks, which have Rate 1. He can't flurry them in any way. So, you only have to burn motes on one SSE each time he attacks at Speed 6.


On the other hand, the Solar is making attacks with a weapon with a Rate higher than 1. He should flurry every round for as many attacks as he can. The Lunar must then perfectly defend all of them or possibly end up injured. The Lunar, even though capable of just as high a mote pool as the Solar, will be burning motes on more than one perfect defense a turn. The Solar also probably will have a better Speed than the Lunar, so over time you'll get in more turns of attacks than the Lunar will.


Basically, as long as the Lunar does not switch to normal kicks and punches and you both stunt equally well, the Solar should win this fight, no special tricks needed. Even if the Lunar does swap tactics, it will probably favor the Solar, as the Lunar perfect defenses are slightly more expensive than the Solar ones.

 

[Burpcycle]

I'd like to point out that the Solar has the advantage as long as he has enough dice to reliably hit the Lunar. The Lunar will be making grapple attacks, which have Rate 1. He can't flurry them in any way. So, you only have to burn motes on one SSE each time he attacks at Speed 6.
On the other hand, the Solar is making attacks with a weapon with a Rate higher than 1. He should flurry every round for as many attacks as he can. The Lunar must then perfectly defend all of them or possibly end up injured. The Lunar, even though capable of just as high a mote pool as the Solar, will be burning motes on more than one perfect defense a turn. The Solar also probably will have a better Speed than the Lunar, so over time you'll get in more turns of attacks than the Lunar will.


Basically, as long as the Lunar does not switch to normal kicks and punches and you both stunt equally well, the Solar should win this fight, no special tricks needed. Even if the Lunar does swap tactics, it will probably favor the Solar, as the Lunar perfect defenses are slightly more expensive than the Solar ones.

Sorry, I'm not an expert on Exalted combat. Can't I only SSE once per action? So if he attacks multiple times I can't perfectly defend against them all? He's not incapable of punches, he just favors grapples, and if he sees they aren't working, he'll no doubt switch to them.

 

[cyl]

Well yes, as any reflexive and supplemental charms, you can use the same charm as many times as you want in an action.


He punches you x times, you can use 7SE and get x perfect defenses - as long as you have the motes.


But really, stay out of sight and then out of close combat as long as you can... use the terrain to your advantage as well as traps, and distractions - smoke / fire / poisons (inhaled or injected) - as much as possible, play with his mind and you will win this fight with a well oiled !


*lights up a cigar*


And we love it when a plan comes together 8)

 

[Gylthinel]

1 problem: flowing body evasion works against all attacks in a round. It costs 4 motes and will defeat the Solar's flurry. 7SE costs 3 motes. So that's a meager 1 mote lead, hardly enough to count on.


One fun thing about re-establishing surprise: it can be used defensively. Hit him, then re-establish surprise. You're now immune to attacks, since he cannot find you.


And if he has an anti-surprise charm, good! That means every time you ambush him, he has to burn motes. If he has to use an anti-surprise/perfect combo, that means he burns motes AND Willpower. You'll rapidly wear his battery out, which is (sadly) how you win in Exalted combat.


Also, keep in mind that he can DASH 16 yards. Dashing means he has to flurry his action, which will cost him DV and accuracy. So, re-establish surprise, slink out to your max range, then re-appear and fire away. If he has to dash to keep up with you, then you're just giving yourself the edge yet again.


Unfortunately, any Lunar worth his salt can do more than just spam grappling. So good luck!

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

1 problem: flowing body evasion works against all attacks in a round. It costs 4 motes and will defeat the Solar's flurry. 7SE costs 3 motes. So that's a meager 1 mote lead, hardly enough to count on.

Actually...that's not the case. Errate says that it's only one attack, though there is an enhancement charm that allows it to work against all attacks. P. 44 Scroll of Errata includes the correction. Flowing Body Ascension, DotFA: Lords of Creation p 69 also mentions the correction, and is the charm which grants defense for an action. The most recent Scroll of Errata page 82 corrects Flowing Body Ascension to have a cost of +3 motes and 1 WP added to Flowing Body Evasion.

 

[Gylthinel]

1 problem: flowing body evasion works against all attacks in a round. It costs 4 motes and will defeat the Solar's flurry. 7SE costs 3 motes. So that's a meager 1 mote lead' date=' hardly enough to count on. [/quote']
Actually...that's not the case. Errate says that it's only one attack, though there is an enhancement charm that allows it to work against all attacks. P. 44 Scroll of Errata includes the correction. Flowing Body Ascension, DotFA: Lords of Creation p 69 also mentions the correction, and is the charm which grants defense for an action. The most recent Scroll of Errata page 82 corrects Flowing Body Ascension to have a cost of +3 motes and 1 WP added to Flowing Body Evasion.

I haven't looked @ scroll of the erratta (can't access from work). Thanks for the data! I always thought that was flukey.

 

[IanPrice]

You focus on stealth charms. You attack with Thrown.


...


Catapults attack with thrown. Catapults are available via, oh, stealthy theft. Catapults can do a large amount of damage.


Stealth + catapult + falling icicle strike = large amounts of pain for your enemy.


Heck, catapult + triple-distance attack technique = attack from about a mile away (use awareness charms to attack from a high-ground spot, you'll be able to see him - an excellency is fine, keen sight is better).


Combine the two tactics to bombard him with unexpected attacks from far away while he tries to find the source of these flaming boulders from heaven and then approach. 25 yards/tick doesn't seem so fast when you have to go 3000+ yards.


Sneak right up to him the night before and leave a note saying "if you cross this line in the dirt I drew outside your door, you will die today," or something else cool. There's no reason you can't play a scene dramatically while using sneaky bastard tactics, and those are what you're best at.