Grappling Grappling

Trueblood

Trueblood

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Trying to figure out how grappling functions based off of just the main book is giving me a migraine. I've tried looking into the archives but haven't been able to come up with anything. Can anyone give me a quick run down on how it works?


Our group doesn't really use martial arts so we don't have a whole lot of experience running combat with it as most characters tend to rely on melee for close combat. The character I'm running this campaign however is a bit of a pacifist so I'm looking at immobilizing opponents rather than killing them.  


Are we running the combat correctly in the following scenario or have we gotten something wrong?:


My Twilight Artificer, Heavenly Forge, squares off against a member of a Thornguard patrol trying to take him in for questioning. We Join Battle and I get  2 Successes while the guardsman gets 3 (He acts on tick 0 while I act on tick 1). His first action is to slash at me with his chopping sword, fortunately he misses, he will act again on tick 4 (Weapon, Speed 4). On my action at tick 1, I go in for a clinch (Strength or Dexterity + Martial Arts) and succeed with one success over his DV and can either break the hold, crush him or hold him immobile, I elect to crush him for piercing bashing damage equal to strength plus remaining successes over DV. At this point the guardsman becomes inactive and will now "act" on tick 6 (Inactive, speed 5) rather than 4, while I will act on tick 7 (Grapple, Speed 6). On tick 6 the guardsman again becomes inactive as he is still caught in a clinch, he will "act" again on tick 11 (Inactive, speed 5). On tick 7, I have to renew the clinch rolling (Strength or Dexterity + Martial Arts) resisted by his (Strength or Dexterity + Martial Arts) to maintain control of the clinch. I succeed and crush him again,  my next action will be on tick 13 (Grapple, Speed 6). The process is repeated until the guardsman looses consciousness or gains control of the clinch.


Is this right or have we screwed up the screwed up the action speeds somewhere and should the guardsman have had a chance to actively resist the grapple at the end of the inactive action (such as on on ticks 6 and 11) apart from the reflexive resistance he gets when I try to renew the clinch on my actions (such as on ticks 7 and 13)?


Lastly, do mobility penalties from armor have any effect on grappling?


Hope you guys can shed some light on the matter.
 
As far as I can see from here you are running this correctly. The defender only gets to reflexively take control of the clinch on the attackers tick, he can only use reflexive charms which are designed to be used in clinches. Everything fine so far.


About the mobility penalty. In my games it is the following way, if you grapple via strength you don't have to subtract the mobility penalty, but if you do over dexterity you subtract it. The mobility penalty applies to all dextrous tasks.
 
Thanks for the reply Safim.


So essentially a character who is grappled and isn't proficient with martial arts is pretty much screwed unless the grappling character seriously fudges his rolls? Likewise, they can do nothing but keep taking inactive "actions" until the clinch is broken or they gain control of it?


Sucks to be grappled then...
 
Basically yes, but you can always stunt your way out of it, i.e. make a clever stunt that lets you use your melee, archery or thrown ability. Or athletics for example.


One of the archers in one of my games was once grappled by an abyssal who proceeded to slowly crush his bones. Our archer stunted his way out of this by strangling the abyssal with the string of his powebow before firing some arrows into different directions which bounced off different parts of scenery to hit the abyssal in the back.


On the other hand our melee monkey was not grappled once, whenever he saw a grapple coming remotely close to him he used a perfect defense, just to avoid being grappled.


And always remember, grappling is slow, slower than daiklaives, swords etc. That is a whole angle of vulnerability to the allies of the victim.


But generally I agree, grappling is a pretty viable tactic.
 
Mobility penalties should not effect grapple rolls. They effect no other Martial Arts rolls such at attacks or Martial Arts parries and a grapple roll is a form of Martial Arts attack roll.
 
Mobility penalties should not effect grapple rolls. They effect no other Martial Arts rolls such at attacks or Martial Arts parries and a grapple roll is a form of Martial Arts attack roll.
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Why?
 
[QUOTE="Core Book]The second most important number is the armor's mobility penalty. This is the number of dice subtracted from the character's dice pools when she tries to do anything requiring agility or physical dexterity. This penalty is an internal penalty, and it doesn't normally apply to attacks or parries but it does apply to dodges and Athletics rolls for feats that require whole-body ability.

[/QUOTE]
That's just the way it is, I suppose.
 
Heh. I've had one ST that implied if anyone wore heavy armorto a social gathering he'd apply the Mobility or Fatigue Penalty to all social rolls...of course this was followed with comments about how thus it was more socially acceptable to wear a Royal Warstrider to the ball than a Common or Colosus Warstrider. I suppose they're so impressive it makes up for some of the penalty for trying to ballroom dance in a Warstrider. ;) And yes, this was mostly people being silly.
 
I hope this isn't threadjacking, but I have another question about grappling.


Say you grapple and damage them on your first action.  Then friends of his show up and your next action comes up and you don't want to be at DV0 so you want to let him go so you'll have a DV.


Do you need to make the opposed roll and if you win then release the hold?  Or since you won the turn before can you just choose to release it?  IE, is the release manuver only for the defender?
 
Since on page 157 it states that they can do nothing else on subsequent actions except renew the clinch, and releasing the clinch is one of the things the controller can do, then I would have to say once you start, you're stuck unless you control the next one.
 
I hope this isn't threadjacking, but I have another question about grappling.
Say you grapple and damage them on your first action.  Then friends of his show up and your next action comes up and you don't want to be at DV0 so you want to let him go so you'll have a DV.


Do you need to make the opposed roll and if you win then release the hold?  Or since you won the turn before can you just choose to release it?  IE, is the release manuver only for the defender?
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As I read it, the option to break the hold is never the defenders, it's always the call of whoever controls the clinch, so as Ledall Kajiri stated, unless you are able to maintain the clinch you're pretty much at the mercy of your opponent's comrades. Then again, you have your own companions anyway right? I suppose you could stunt your way out of it as well, think any Jacky Chan flick where he uses the guy he's just grappled as a shield against that same guy's buddies attacking him.
 
Yeah, but stunting should be original moves to a certain degree.  If *any* Jackie Chan flick involves moving the dude into the way of an attack and a PC does it *every* time he gets attacked while grappling it ceases to be a stunt.  Then they might as well just give you a DV while grappling or a % chance to hit the wrong guy like in D&D.
 
The applicability of the stunt should be taken into consideration of course. It's going to be pretty difficult to justify getting a Defense Value if the grapple was initially described as a good old fashioned tackle with control being maintained by sitting on the guy (Hopefully this won't degenerate into another Yeddim Style Martial Arts thread). Also, since he's only going to be getting 1-3 stunt dice (that he then has to roll) depending on how well he describes the stunt for a Defense Value of between 0 to 6 (again depending on how well he rolls), in order for him to make it worth the effort, the player has to be able to get into quite a bit of detail about his stunts and more detail always makes the entire role-playing experience better doesn't it?


A well described stunt that enhances the game for everyone in exchange for at most 3 dice? Sounds good, but hey that's just me.
 
There's also Even Blade Style, Resolute Brigada's Variant...the pinnacle lets you keep your DV while grappling, and even use those you grapple as parrying tools. People you have grappled have a +3 defense value, didn'tcha know? ;) Oh, and it lets you grapple multiple opponents at the same time. It's a fun charm.


I know there are some other grappling style martial arts, but I can't remember them offhand and don't have the time to go serously hunting for 'em. Lunar Hero has a few good grapple charms, IIRC, though.
 
If they turn the abyssal martial art from first edition into abyssal hero style those will be bitches in a clinch.
 
Considering the DBs and Solars...it seems likely that will be the case. the Lunars ended up with something truly new, but then, they got a total rework, so that's little suprise.
 
I'd almost rather they keep Hungry Ghost Style, and make an Abyssal Hero (anti-hero?) martial art seperately.
 
They'll most likely rehash the Brawl Charms, like they've done with the rest.
 
Flyck said:
I'd almost rather they keep Hungry Ghost Style, and make an Abyssal Hero (anti-hero?) martial art seperately.
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If they do simillarly with other character types (Lunars excluded, but then, they're...different), then they'll likely do just that. At least one NPC they've stated did have Hungry Ghost Style...though that's in Core, so we'll see before assuming it means it stays.
 
Hungry Ghost is the martial arts style in the abyssals book. I'd bet it gets the same treatment as snake style, i.e. natural to learn but not expandable. And then we get abyssal brawl as abyssal hero style... which is extremely mean in grappling.
 
Well, MA style theories aside...  first, we need to get the celestial panzees out of the way.  THEN, we get the meaty goodness.
 
Pffft, don't diss the siddies, I got high hopes on that MoEP. And frankly, the sidereals had some of the coolest background in the whole first edition.
 
Sorry for the thread necromancy, but this topic reminded me of a grapple question I've been meaning to ask.


One of the 1st Ed Autobot charms gives your character a pair of tentacles. They can be "empowered" so they act independent of your character. It gives the following rules in clinches:


1. Each tentacle involved in the clinch adds +1 to the control roll.


2. Each empowered tentacle in the clinch can peform a seperate constriction actions. (Quotes the page in the player guide where it's supposed to be, the revised clinch rules page)


On the page it quotes the term is not mentioned. Neither is it in the 1st nor 2nd ed core books. From what I can see, a constriction action has only ever been mentioned in the autobot book.


Anyone know what the hell is a constriction action is supposed to be?


My theories are that the defender must roll to take control of the clinch from each tentacle seperately, or that if the tentacles win then each one rolls damage seperately?
 
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