God/dess of Heroic Challenge

[Smeggedoff]

how very, Herculean

 

[cyl]

Well I like your idea  


Very Greek, but it seems to me that in the Second Age, such a goddess would be percieved necessarily as evil, because she'd be a direct threat to people.

 

[Jukashi]

Of course! :twisted:


But there would always be the possibility of success in anything she set against you, and like all gods, she'd repay you if you did something for her. Plus, she'd probably hate anything from Outside Fate (because it messes with her stories), particularly the Fair Folk; they try to act out thrilling stories as well, but theirs have no real meaning or depth. So she'd be a possible ally against any of that, and a pretty powerful one when you consider she could weave some obstacles that divert all the local Exalted, god-blooded and heroic mortals towards an intrusion.


So like most things in Exalted, she'd have at least a bit of moral uncertainty about her.

 

[cyl]

Plus, she'd probably hate anything from Outside Fate (because it messes with her stories), particularly the Fair Folk; they try to act out thrilling stories as well, but theirs have no real meaning or depth.

In that case she would really hate the abyssal as they ruin her playground.
So she'd be like Five Days Darkness, an outcaste god, very powerful.


But once she had a position in the Celestial Order, she was respected and love by many, now nobody would remember her, she's been cast away... what would be her goals now, besides initiating her new quests ?

 

[Jukashi]

As the artistic type, she'd despair of the bland craftsmanship Fate had ended up with and probably wouldn't be able to stand not being known to every spirit in Creation, so she'd try do something big and impressive to show that a) she's back and b) isn't it so much better with her around?


Realm Civil War sounds like it'd be appropriate... :twisted:


Realistically, though, it'd depend on how she got loose. If she planned the whole thing she'd probably have resources to call on; on the other hand, if someone like the Lunars or another god deliberately let her out, they'd probably see to it she pays them back.

 

[cyl]

If she planned the whole thing, yes, she should have some back up ready for her. But much could have been lost since... let's say a Shadowland or the Wyld devoured her secret manse and that's it...


Let's say she was careful and hid most of it on the Blessed Island, and she could recover it (and have a good base for the Civil War  :twisted: ).


But I think she's already very fond of herself and that the poor lunar would be granted only the satisfaction to know he's the one who has freed her... the bitch would think that's quite an achievement in itself :lol:

 

[Jukashi]

So, what would she look like? She's an artist and a storyteller, so I'm thinking she'd have a bit of that in her possessions - maybe she'd carry a harp or lyre that she can play when she feels like recounting the tales of her finest work in song. She might even carry a few in the form of dreamstones, set into whatever jewelery she wears.


Hmm... the idea of a musical instrument puts me in minds of the wandering bards of the ancient celts. Perhaps she'd wear a cloak or mantle of fur with feathers and beads tied in, as a sort of relic of the primitive strife before the First Age... or a symbol of how, in modern creation, most of the people who actually seek heroic challenges are barbarians. It'd also tie in with the idea in some cultures of hunters coming of age by killing a mighty beast and wearing its pelt; like the old Masai or, to use a more popular example, King Leonidas in 300.


Now, Destiny-wise, Heroic Challenges as a concept would be in a nebulous region touching on the divisions of Journeys, Battles and Secrets, so she'd have some sort of link to all of those. Perhaps a walking staff, a sword and a padlocked book? Serenity she'd obviously not be connected with, while Endings seems unlikely; the progression of a story is:


1) Hero finds goal, strives toward it.


2) Meets obstacle, attempts to overcome.


3a) Succeeds


or


3b) Fails


... and while both of the third options are the domain of Endings, the part she'd be concerned with is most definitely the middle. I'd also like her to have something inhuman about her, since she was around before humans came into dominance. Maybe she has a tail, or claws, or becomes more bestial when she's mad. Perhaps she's one of those egyptian-style animal head gods, or something.


If you wanted to go with the idea of a sixth Maiden, you'd pretty much have to work orange in there. It's the only color among the primaries and secondaries that's not taken already.

 

[Moonsilver]

This reminds me of the view of the gods in Jason and the Argonauts, or was it the Pegasus film? Anyway, the Greek Gods look down on the heros while bickering amongst themselves. They comment on what they can and cannot do etc to help the heroes.

 

[cyl]

I'd picture her true form with feline traits.


Cats are cruel, love to play with toys, but they can be grateful and lovely.


I'd see her more like a painter or a writer not a bard; she does not tell stories, she invented them, and planted every little thing to initiate the quest, and she's the one at the beginning and at the end of the quest (favoring the winner, or punishing the looser).


Cape and cloak are good, because they mean she travels a lot, and to initiate new quests she has to.


But she could also took the form of an old man prophesizing a disaster, a merchant telling story to kids, an old woman begging for help, or even a drunk in a bar telling a story necessary to begin the quest.


The sixth maiden idea was proposed to ease the concept of her power over fate, which is pretty damn large.

 

[Vanman]

I'd see her more like a painter or a writer not a bard; she does not tell stories, she invented them, and planted every little thing to initiate the quest, and she's the one at the beginning and at the end of the quest (favoring the winner, or punishing the looser).

See, I'm with Juke on this one. I certainly see her more as a bard rather than a writer or, more especially, a painter. I just don't see her as a painter at all. Remember, she's not only the goddess of heroic conflict, she's also the goddess of stories. As such, the role of bard would be much more conducive to spreading those stories. Given that literacy for the larger population of Creation isn't that common, then stories - and story tellers - would be the way to get those stories spread. Don't forget, bards also created tales.


But, if that's how you want to portray the goddess, then more power to you. I just think Jukashi's idea of bard is more appropriate.....

 

[Persell]

This reminds me of the view of the gods in Jason and the Argonauts, or was it the Pegasus film? Anyway, the Greek Gods look down on the heros while bickering amongst themselves. They comment on what they can and cannot do etc to help the heroes.

That may actually be Clash of the Titans, or at least there's a scene remarkably similar to it

 

[Moonsilver]

Clash of the Titians is it, thanks for for that.

 

[Jukashi]

I'd see her more like a painter or a writer not a bard; she does not tell stories, she invented them, and planted every little thing to initiate the quest, and she's the one at the beginning and at the end of the quest (favoring the winner, or punishing the looser).

Well, bards weren't just storytellers, you know. They also wrote (or to be more precise, created and memorized) stories and historical events. And along with the druids, they formed a semi-separate "learned class" that was responsible both for education and for what passed for politics among their people. So as well as the image of a collector and teller of stories, you've also got the more subtle connotations of teaching (through strife) and manipulation (choosing which heroic warrior gets to be the chieftain, as it were).


On the other hand, if you have her as just a writer, then you cut down on the clutter on her person (harp + staff + sword + book is a bit much for one humanoid entity to carry) and attach more importance to the book; perhaps that's how she manifests her manipulation of Fate? After being such a big help in the primordial war, she would have been in the position to ask Auto for a favor... and so, when he made the Pattern Spiders, he created the book as a sort of terminal. Whatever she writes in it, the pattern spiders try to bring about, thereby meaning she that doesn't have to stand at the Loom and do it herself any more, and she can coordinate a story "from the ground" at the same time. That makes the book a very powerful Artifact, thus giving another reason for someone to try and free her.


Of course, in the same way that a professional film producer keeps in mind how to tell the story without breaking the studio's budget, she knows how to write her stories without screwing up the rest of the Loom. If someone steals it off her and tries to write something without having any dots in Craft (Fate)... well, that just makes the story that much more interesting. :twisted:

 

[Jukashi]

So I did a picture!

It's just an over-the-shoulder shot, but I put a few thoughts into it. It's interesting to design gods - how you put symbolism into everything about them. As already discussed, I made her an egyptian-style cat-headed god, for a touch of inhumanity and the image of cats as playful, aloof, cruel and so forth. But I made her more leonine, since the link to predators and, therefore, hunting, is associated with heroic characters in the mythological cycles of many cultures. By making her white I give the impression of snow (to represent the challenges of an extreme environment), and then I tip the ears and hair in red for the association with blood (and further, with battle).


The fur mantle, also previously discussed, is a further association with hunters and primitive societies (which more commonly produce people who actively seek challenge and danger and the status of being a hero). The rest of her clothes, along with her eyes, are orange; I got the idea for that from the fact that orange is the colour among the primaries and secondaries that's not already taken by one of the Maidens, but it also gives her a link to the Unconquered Sun, who is probably the nearest thing to a God of Heroes. Orange is the colour of the rising and setting sun, which symbolically resembles those who become heroes (overcoming challenges and becoming elevated above others) and those who perish in the attempt (and have their light sink out of sight). The circle of yellow on the headband adds to this association, as well as suggesting a link to the Exalted... and the headband, artistically speaking, helps define the boundary between her face and her hair/mane.


To counteract this association, the area around her eyes is darker, to give a little bit of villainy to her face. The expression I tried to give her in this picture is one of anger or resentment (maybe someone she didn't like has overcome one of her challenges?), but with a bit of defiance - challenge, in other words - underneath.


Do I talk too much?

 

[Persell]

Bah! Nice explanation but I think you've just had this picture of Marena in Deadly Beastman Form sitting around and decided to use it for your goddess.


In all seriousness, it looks really awesome and I dig the rational behind the design choices.

 

[Arthur]

Do I talk too much?

Yeah. But the drawing you do compensates. That was awesome.


Edit: any chance she will appear on the Keychain?


Edit 2: actually, she trained and sent Ten Winds (which is NOT a RD of Kejak) to join the party but, on the last moment of an important scene, he'll betray them all and put them on a situation that only their most precious virtues will be enough to save them. Confirm it. Now.

 

[Jukashi]

Edit 2: actually, she trained and sent Ten Winds (which is NOT a RD of Kejak) to join the party but, on the last moment of an important scene, he'll betray them all and put them on a situation that only their most precious virtues will be enough to save them. Confirm it. Now.

Confirm'dd!

 

[cyl]

On the other hand, if you have her as just a writer, then you cut down on the clutter on her person (harp + staff + sword + book is a bit much for one humanoid entity to carry) and attach more importance to the book

Yes, it was somethin very close to this that I had in mind.  

 

[Jukashi]

I was thinking, why should it be a book? A big scroll would be equally good, and more in-keeping with the Exalted flavour. And as for a brush, well, if we're making her a cat-person, then she'd have a tail, and since she's lion-like, it could be a lion tail with a tuft of hair on the end... so why not use that as a brush? The red tip could produce an infinite supply of crimson ink. Then she has everything she needs, as well as a little reference to Okami, a game I like very much.

 

[cyl]

Be it a book or a scroll the paper has to be made from pattern spider silk


As for the Scroll/Book, I would picture a writing equipment made from mystical components, like a quill from the original Garda, ink made from fluids of the first water elemental and some small powder from the original earth elemental, a cover made from wood, and something made out of the air element.  


The tail-brush has its pros and cons:


cons:


- it's weird, a goddess using its tail to write gives a goofey look.


pros:


- if the Great Maker in his great wisdom has granted her power over the Loom, this power is within her and the artifact is just a mean to channel it.


- stealing the scroll from her or her various and well guarded caches wouldn't be sufficient to write fate, you'd have to cut her tail too, and I like this, (the need to chop a piece from her feels very greek and goes well with her wild-barbarian side). Of course, she has the means to defend herself, as she already wrote this story somewhere in ancient times... and she can grow it back of course ^^

 

[Jukashi]

As for the Scroll/Book, I would picture a writing equipment made from mystical components, like a quill from the original Garda, ink made from fluids of the first water elemental and some small powder from the original earth elemental, a cover made from wood, and something made out of the air element.  

I dunno, this seems too... well, ordinary. That is, ordinary for Artifacts. The Exalted do need to do stuff like that, because they need to take power from other places; as a divine relic, however, the equipment would be sufficiently magical in and of itself. Not as impressive maybe, but also much more elegant. Pattern Spider silk, though... yes.

The tail-brush has its pros and cons:
cons:


- it's weird, a goddess using its tail to write gives a goofey look.

Well, if she just grabs it and starts brushing away, yes. It's somewhat mitigated if her tail is quite long, and you make the book/scroll larger than normal, and she writes in big dramatic slashes and curves rather than small letters.

pros:
- if the Great Maker in his great wisdom has granted her power over the Loom, this power is within her and the artifact is just a mean to channel it.


- stealing the scroll from her or her various and well guarded caches wouldn't be sufficient to write fate, you'd have to cut her tail too, and I like this, (the need to chop a piece from her feels very greek and goes well with her wild-barbarian side). Of course, she has the means to defend herself, as she already wrote this story somewhere in ancient times... and she can grow it back of course ^^

Hmm... actually, you could have two options there. You could just pluck/cut some hairs from her tail, and then with the ink from those you could write on fate so long as you had paper made of pattern spider silk... for a short time. Then they'd dry up. But if you actually cut off her tail, it stays alive and it'll write forever... maybe even allow the use of some spirit Charms. And, because it's still alive, it won't grow back on her... and you'll have to keep a step ahead of her for the rest of your life, because she'll be very angry. :twisted:


As for the actual scroll she carries around, it would function not only as a source of silk paper but also as a means for her to look back and check what's already been written.


Also, new idea: you know how some gods use the Shapechange Charm to turn into dragons and so forth when they fight? Well, what if she turned into a sphinx? I don't think there are any of those in Exalted yet.

 

[cyl]

Also, new idea: you know how some gods use the Shapechange Charm to turn into dragons and so forth when they fight? Well, what if she turned into a sphinx? I don't think there are any of those in Exalted yet.

Nope but it's a pretty damn good idea  


Totally agree with the rest.