Gem of Incomparable Wellness in 2E

[StarHawk]

So, this stone, the bane of my existance as a ST, managed to float its way into my game. I tried to deny it but two players have claimed I said okay to it. Since it's a 1E stone, I wanted to get your opinions on how it should work in 2E since ticks and turns don't quite equate the same things anymore.


The Stone:

[QUOTE="1E Core Book] Gem of Incomparable Wellness (Manse 5)
This brilliant emerald stone has an unearthly appearance, for it is constantly changing shape as it grows outard from it's ever shrinking center. A character carrying this stone cannot die. He will regenerate one health level per turn, even if rendered into ash. Aggravated damage requires up to one minute per health level to regenerate. The brearer will never become sick and never age. He cannnot drown, suffocate, starve or dehydrate. The only way he can be destroyed is if the hearthstone is broken, if the manse is damaged so much that the stone becomes inactive of if the item the stone is set in is seperated from his long enough for the commited essence in the setting to dissipate (about a day)

[/QUOTE]
So really, my player is the one who wants to know how the turns=ticks works. If you would please help me with this I would appreciate it.

 

[Flagg]

As long as your diddling with the mechanics, why not nerf it, since you don't want it in your game to begin with?

 

[StarHawk]

Well what I was really looking for is the passage in 2E that says "you're dead. When you're dead there is no coming back, no resurection." because the character seems to think this works like ressurection. And I want to piddle with it and bring it down a notch. Healing I'm fine with, but I want there to be a way for him to go down and stay that way.


Mostly I fear that because this character has this stone he doesn't need to fear 'the bigger fish' so my intent was to take away the "he doesn't die" bit.


But I'd like an opnion on how fast he should be able to heal.

 

[memesis]

because the character seems to think this works like ressurection.

Given that the text explicitly allows that, the character is correct in his thinking (for canon purposes).

Mostly I fear that because this character has this stone he doesn't need to fear 'the bigger fish' so my intent was to take away the "he doesn't die" bit.

If bigger fish can send a mook with a sledgehammer to the heartroom of his Manse, he has to worry.

But I'd like an opnion on how fast he should be able to heal.

A health level every 5 ticks sounds average.  But I don't have a problem with "once on each of your actions" either, even with variable-Speed actions.  This isn't Hero.

 

[Dracogryff]

Well what I was really looking for is the passage in 2E that says "you're dead. When you're dead there is no coming back, no resurection."

Well, if you want that, try the top of the second column on page 151 of core. That paragraph should be what you're looking for.


As to the rest of it...by the technical wording of the old stone, it does prevent death until someone takes out the manse powering it...which I agree is probably a bit much...but I'm pretty inexperienced in running (or even having this stone...it was disallowed in games I was in even in 1E) and balance so I'm not too sure how it would work. I'd probably go with a lethal an action...it seems to be how Lunar DBT healing works, and I can see this as potentially similar.


What I might do about the escaping death is that it allows one 'get out of death free' card a story. IE, if a blow would have otherwise killed the character, they are merely at incapacitated...but if something kills them again before the arc ends, well, they're SOL. *shrugs* It's a thought...

 

[memesis]

Also consider that if I can knock you down or grapple you or otherwise immobilize you, and take the stone (or the item it's set into) away from you, you no longer have the stone.  THIS looks like a job for Larceny-man!


Seriously.  If a player's idea of immortality is to lug around a Hearthstone, and there are people who want him dead, it's not hard to achieve that goal.  The wise and powerful Exalt with this stone will take appropriate measures to keep such things from happening to him, but a newbie Solar who stumbles across this dingus and thinks "nothing can stop me now!" will be in for a painful surprise.

 

[The zombie cat]

Page 382 of the core book describes the gem of immortality, it is generated by a 5 dot manse and all it dose is remove all penalties and chance of death threw old age and disease, it explicitly states that you can be killed threw other means.


I believe that this was supposed to replace the gem of incomparable wellness, although it could be considered an over nerf considering there are other artifacts in 2nd ed that heal one box every action.


Once an enemy is aware of his ability to regenerate from beyond death they can actually use it against him, they can take him prisoner without needing to be gentile and they can use interrogation techniques that would not leave eve the hardest of the exalted alive, if you do this you should give the rest of the party a chance to rescue him, or be ready for the flack you will inevitably get for declaring a PC to now be an NPC.


Edward

 

[Sherwood]

Heck, I can place the stone into the hilt of a weapon, then send it into Elsewhere.  All you have to do is call it out once a day to make sure it stays attuned to you and you cant die.  Even if your body is incinerated by a 500 die attack from the most powerful demon, you come right back.  Just a tensy bit over powered. :shock:

 

[memesis]

Just a tensy bit over powered. :shock:

Uh, right.  Because your Manse is also immortal?  Want to cover that scenario, please?

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Why did you let them get it in the first place, Mary?

 

[Flyck]

Have someone steal it off him.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Or just go through the amusing game of "How many fucking horrible ways can I kill this bitch?" Drop a mountain on him! Poison him in coitus! Throw him off a cliff/Manse tower/airship! Put a Grand Scythe through his belly! Roll a boulder over him! I could go on for hours...

 

[StarHawk]

Why did you let them get it in the first place' date=' Mary?[/quote'] Honestly I can't recall ever allowing the stone in because really, it's broken and I hate it. As I said I could have sworn I said no to it. But the player and one other says I accepted... Oh well. Now to work it into my plot.
I do however like all the suggestions made by everyone, especially Memesis... I think said twilight should be captured if he can't be killed... grilled for all his sorcerous knowledge.


The only other problem with destorying the character's manse is he took the hidden manse, so no one will touch it until the character returns to it and reveals to the Siddies watching where it's located.  And taking the stone from him physically I found is going to be increasingly difficult, he has it in his skin-mount amulet.  Does anyone know if those can be taken from the body without permission?

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

It's called kill him and hack his body apart to take the bitch. Attunments don't count when dead! At least on the mount...

 

[StarHawk]

It's called kill him and hack his body apart to take the bitch. Attunments don't count when dead! At least on the mount...

A character carrying this stone cannot die.

But then again... What if he were chopped up and pieces of him were removed? How would that work out? If they just took the body part that has the stone....?

 

[Kremlin KOA]

when he is incapacitated his dice pools and DVs are 0


at that point clinch and force stone off him


or force the skin mount amulte off him and remove all flesh


no more atunement

 

[Ker'ion]

Or go overkill and invite the Five Metal Shrike over to his Manse for a party.

 

[Solfi]

It's called kill him and hack his body apart to take the bitch. Attunments don't count when dead! At least on the mount...

A character carrying this stone cannot die.

But then again... What if he were chopped up and pieces of him were removed? How would that work out? If they just took the body part that has the stone....?

... either that part simply would regenerate, but that would sorta of limit the (annoying and complete inappropriate) über-intent of the Hearthstone (you could just hack up the PC, and send his body parts to the four corners of Creation...). I'd say he regenerates the body part but, of course, not the skinmount. Which means he loses that Artifact as well in the process, and if he wants it again must go through the process of surgically attaching it.

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

Send a thousand-forged dragon to his manse. Better yet, while he's in it. Kill two birds with one stone

 

[Solfi]

... is it really impossible to convince your player that having that particular Hearthstone is dramatically repugnant, and allow him to renegotiate the points spent on that Hearthstone to be focused on something else instead? (... playing the "exchange of points" might be fun too. Perhaps he must sacrifice the hearthstone to achieve a story goal of some sort, that at the same time gives him access to some other interesting reward?).

 

[Kremlin KOA]

hmm


do the eye of autochthon adventure from the autobots book


and redo it so the glass sorcerer requires the hearthstone


and when it shatters, the manse drops to a lv 4 manse

 

[Haku1]

There are ways of killing him even if he possess the stone.


Here's one.


You kill him... take him down to dying health levels. He can't do a thing, sure he can regen and all that jazz. But, here's the kicker, you remember that Prometeus guy?


You know the IMMORTAL guy?


Yeah...


Now, you chain the immortal man... he's all nice and unable to escape. make sure he has the hearthstone, and he's chained up with those essence-draining manacles from 1e. I believe it would be easy enough to convert over to 2e. steal a mote every X ticks.


Whenever he looks like he's about to wake up, kill him again... until his essence pool is completely depleted.


Allow him to wake up, gloat abit about how he's not going to escape, etc etc... and then... pour some oil and firedust mixture on him and then light him up...


Now invite some cannibals over... just tell them to avoid taking out the shiney stone. And they'll get to have a perpetual food source.

 

[Sherwood]

Delightfully evil.  I see why I enjoy this website so much. :twisted:

 

[Persell]

Also consider the fact that this stone... was created in 1st edit, in the corebook no less... I feel that its exclusion from the 2nd edit corebook is probaly good indication they dont WANT it in the game anymore...


for one thing it DOES tamper with the "once your dead theirs no going back...


however theirs both a martial arts move and a sorcerry spell efect that can tamper with that a little (but they have to be in place beforehand...) from 2nd edition.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[Vanman]

... is it really impossible to convince your player that having that particular Hearthstone is dramatically repugnant, and allow him to renegotiate the points spent on that Hearthstone to be focused on something else instead? (... playing the "exchange of points" might be fun too. Perhaps he must sacrifice the hearthstone to achieve a story goal of some sort, that at the same time gives him access to some other interesting reward?).

I agree with Solfi. It is, after all, your game. If you don't want it in, then chuck it. But I do like the 'sacrifice the hearthstone to achieve a story goal' idea. A lot.


Nice one, Solfi.