FairFolk - strictly rules questions

OxStormTigerxO said:
Here's a deliciously evil idea I just thought up...if the creation-born has no grace...they can spend no willpower. Therefore, totally impossible for them to actively participate. I think it's fairly in line with raksha making people puppets.
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Um, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what's meant by that.


I think the difference is that the Creation-born cannot participate in the shaping (unless they've had their Graces forged).


However, anything they do, however, must be accepted.


For example, if two Raksha were to participate in shaping combat, then they would be convincing each other that their versions of the story were correct. They can both change the story (much like one of those group participation, free-form writing projects where you only get to see the previous line written).


With Creation-born, the relationship is more like the ST-player relationship. The ST (Raksha) governs the overall story arc, setting trials and tribulations for the Creation-born. There's no contest as to who's running the story, because the power differentials are just so vast.


The Creation-born is not without power, however. Anything he/she does (which is limited by his/her actual capabilities, rather than the Rakshas ones that they just made up) must be included. If they beat the Horror, it remains dead. If they climb the mountain, it remains climbed. If they rescue the princess, she is taken from the Raksa, and is no longer a possession.


Raksha cannot "edit out" or ignore the effects of the Creation-born (which they can do to other Raksha), but their stories and shaping are uncontested. E:FF132.


I'm not sure whether those Creation-born with their Graces forged still count as Creation-born for this purpose. I personally wouldn't call it that way, because it means that they can effectively run shaping combat, because anything they do must be accepted. Not sure on that, however.
 
ashenphoenix said:
Um, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what's meant by that.
I think the difference is that the Creation-born cannot participate in the shaping (unless they've had their Graces forged).


However, anything they do, however, must be accepted.


For example, if two Raksha were to participate in shaping combat, then they would be convincing each other that their versions of the story were correct. They can both change the story (much like one of those group participation, free-form writing projects where you only get to see the previous line written).


With Creation-born, the relationship is more like the ST-player relationship. The ST (Raksha) governs the overall story arc, setting trials and tribulations for the Creation-born. There's no contest as to who's running the story, because the power differentials are just so vast.


The Creation-born is not without power, however. Anything he/she does (which is limited by his/her actual capabilities, rather than the Rakshas ones that they just made up) must be included. If they beat the Horror, it remains dead. If they climb the mountain, it remains climbed. If they rescue the princess, she is taken from the Raksa, and is no longer a possession.


Raksha cannot "edit out" or ignore the effects of the Creation-born (which they can do to other Raksha), but their stories and shaping are uncontested. E:FF132.


I'm not sure whether those Creation-born with their Graces forged still count as Creation-born for this purpose. I personally wouldn't call it that way, because it means that they can effectively run shaping combat, because anything they do must be accepted. Not sure on that, however.
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We're not talking about shaping combat. Give me a bit and I'll post relavant text.


Edit: Okay on Ravishment.


"RAVISHING CREATURES OF CREATION


Creatures without a Cup Grace are still vulnerable to


ravishment. However, they do not have a Cup damage


track. Instead of marking off damage, the victim’s player


rolls the character’s Willpower + Essence against a difficulty


equal to the raksha’s damage successes.


Dragon-Blooded Exaltation confers a bonus die. Celestial


Exaltation confers two bonus dice. Solar (or Abyssal)


Exaltation confers three. If the roll succeeds, the character


takes no damage. If the roll fails, she is ravished."


Specifically:


"RAVISHING COMPASSION


The attacker removes the ravished victim’s empathy


for one specific target. Each scene that the victim wishes to


behave civilly toward that target costs 1 Willpower. Active


cooperation costs Willpower equal to the victim’s Cup.


RAVISHING CONVICTION


The attacker names an event that the ravished victim


can no longer bear to witness  such as “warriors practicing


their artâ€
 
Uh, yeah, thanks for posting that. Kinda patronising (as I'd already posted page references, implying that I had the book in front of me), but prolly took a bit of effort. I'd watch doing that too much on this forum, as there's a tradition of all-in brawls with the old guard, and we haven't had one in a while.


Right above that section quoted it speaks of Ravishing a Raksha's Virtues. It then lists the Virtues.


Right below it, however, is the section called:


RAVISHING THE CREATION BORN


Which states that Creation-born can resist the shaping action using their Will+Ess.


When you're speaking about Ravishing you are speaking about Shaping Combat as Ravishing is a shaping action, not a normal action.


E:FF p132 - "A rakhsa turned to stone or frozen by Wyld effects or creatures cannot move or think in the mortal fashion"..."When raksha war, seeking to bind, cripple or ravish others of their kind, they practice a strange blend of storytelling, fate-weaving and sorcery."...."Creatures of Creation can violate this rule. The actions of the Creation-born are real even in the Wyld...The raksha are perculiarly defenseless against the shaped, even as mortals are laughably defensless against them."


Mortals don't even begin to comprehend shaping combat. All they understand is that they're suddenly stuck in this crappy maze or love scene and have to find their way out. If they do, the raksha must accept it.
 
And yet you still aren't on the same page as I am. I'm not talking about a mortal resisting a shaping attack. The shaping attack is done. The mortal is ravished etc. So He's down a dot of...hm... compassion. "Well, mortal. You just can't stand your mother anymore. She's a total hag, blah blah blah" Now see for Mr. Mortal to even begin to treat his mother civily he must spend a willpower per scene. However what the whole question is about is for him to work with his mother in cooperation, say helping with the laundry, he has to spend his cup in willpower per scene. But I say hey, Mr. Mortal doesn't have a cup grace, so he'll tell his mom off and brood in his room cause he can't spend willpower to help her.
 
Wow, I just got my ass handed to me.


Still, I feel that the points I was making are still valid.


The mortal could stick themselves through thaumaturgical psychotherapy.


A raksha in a similar position would have to accept that new relationship as one of their defining "truths" (and probably get some glamour back from it).
 
ashenphoenix said:
A raksha in a similar position would have to accept that new relationship as one of their defining "truths" (and probably get some glamour back from it).
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I dunno, probably not. As damaging a grace is said to be comperable to mutilation. They'd be subject to the condition until having their grace repaired though (through the use of one of those nifty Consumes Spell/Artifact/Oath/Behemoth of grace level charms).
 
Anyways, I still want to know what people think about the two different options I put forward regarding a graceless creation-born spending willpower to resist such things as the condition ravishment causes or the task a burden places on you:


Option 1: Substitute the appropriate virtue when deciding how much willpower can be spent to actively work against the affliction


Option 2: They have no grace, therefore the most willpower they can spend is 1, so they can't ever totally work against their affliction.


I personally like the second option, then again I'm quite evil.  :twisted:
 
There is also the option of them channeling willpower through the appropriate (ravished) virtue.


...sorry I haven't contributed mch to this thread recently. RL got in the way.
 
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