FairFolk - strictly rules questions

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

So I've finally gotten my head to wrap around raksha shaping but I'm left with a few mechanical questions:


1) for Ravishing, Incumbrances, and Vexing; they each state to actively work against these effects require spending the victum's Cup, Ring, or Sword in willpower. When the victum is a creation born and doesnt have these traits, how is this handled?


2) for Staff damage overflow, is there any kind of defense against this damage being applied to the other Grace's damage tracks? ie. are they allowed another soak roll against the overflow?


3) when in creation (not bordermarches or middlemarches, but truely in creation) can a raksha vex, incumber, or ravish creatures?


4) can a creature whose Trait + Essence is higher than the raksha's Trait, voluntarily not disbelieve in the glamour to recieve the benefits from it?


5) Gossamer background grants (x) motes of gossamer per story. Is this a shaping standard story, or story story?? Likewise for the Style background


6) Freehold background - what do cysts and pennants look like? what does having a pennant actually do for a raksha? what benefits are there to having a pennant from a more powerful freehold?


7) Whats the mechanical difference between a Horror and a Monster shaping weapons?

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

Well I got some attention over on the WW boards with this if anyone's interested, which they probably arent as no one has responded to this thread.


oh well, BUMP :!:

 

[wordman]

Warning: I don't know what I'm talking about. However:


1) I'm pretty sure the answer to this [EDIT: removed to prevent confusion, because this answer was totally wrong]


Don't know on the others. I think #2's answer is "no".


I can't be bothered with WW's forums, so what answers did you get there? (I'm shocked you got any really, or lived through the inscessant whining.)

 

[Persell]

EDIT: removed reference to wordman's incorrect answer.


You can ravish etc beings with no Graces; the start of the Raksha Magic chapter has details for doing so. Under each heading (Ravishment, Vexation, Encumbering etc) are subheadings like "Ravishing the Creation-born". Those are the mechanics you're looking for. If I recall correctly, the victim gets a roll to resist each time a Raksha tries to ravish them. Something like Willpower+Essence, with bonus dice depending on what sort of Exalt they might be.r

 

[Silence In Daylight]

1) for Ravishing, Incumbrances, and Vexing; they each state to actively work against these effects require spending the victum's Cup, Ring, or Sword in willpower. When the victum is a creation born and doesnt have these traits, how is this handled?

A successful shaping attack that results in Ravishing (Cup), Incumbering (Ring), Snaring (Staff), or Vexing (Sword) creatures that lack the proper Grace (note: a creature of Creation with the proper Grace is treated as one of the Fair Folk) allows the creature a resistance roll. The roll is Willpower + Essence, with a difficulty equal to the number of successes from the shaping attack; DBs get an additional die, Celestials get two extra dice, and Solars/Abyssals get three extra dice. Though it is not canonical, I would treat Alchemicals as Celestials, and am inclined towards giving Dragon Kings honorary DB status for this roll. Success means that the attack fails.


 Charms and effects that reduce shaping soak reduce the WP + Essence roll as if it were shaping soak; however, the bonus dice can not be removed by shaping soak-reduction effects.


Fair Folk, p. 141, 144, 146, 148

2) for Staff damage overflow, is there any kind of defense against this damage being applied to the other Grace's damage tracks? ie. are they allowed another soak roll against the overflow?

No. The overflow damage is from the successful Staff attack, and has already been defended against.


Fair Folk, p. 145

3) when in creation (not bordermarches or middlemarches, but truely in creation) can a raksha vex, incumber, or ravish creatures?

In most cases, the rules seem to imply not, as ordinary (non-gossamer-based) shaping does not function in Creation (Fair Folk, p. 134). No shaping attack, no effect.


 The potential exceptions I found are: Beguilement (FF, p. 160), Undetectable Lie (FF, p. 175), and Preemptive Declaration of Victory (FF, p. 202). All three are Supplemental charms boosting a shaping attack, and all three require gossamer. However, all three have specialized effects against creatures lacking the proper Grace.


 My interpretation is that two Fair Folk in Creation can sling these charms at each other, and attempt to snare or vex each other as normal, but that's just me.

4) can a creature whose Trait + Essence is higher than the raksha's Trait, voluntarily not disbelieve in the glamour to recieve the benefits from it?

From the wording, probably not. Most rules text say something along the lines of '...does not work...', '...does not apply', '...does not function...', and so on. It's a form of immunity, and I don't believe it can be turned off.

5) Gossamer background grants (x) motes of gossamer per story. Is this a shaping standard story, or story story?? Likewise for the Style background

There is no 'shaping' story vs. normal story. A story is a collection of scenes, period, and subject to the ST as to actual length.

6) Freehold background - what do cysts and pennants look like? what does having a pennant actually do for a raksha? what benefits are there to having a pennant from a more powerful freehold?

A cyst is a 'membranous sac of Essence.' (FF, p. 110) Basically, it and a pennant can look like anything you want it to. Something thematic to the Freehold would be appropriate.


 A pennant keeps the Fair Folk that bears it from withering in Creation without feeding from the appropriate Virtues.


 Having a pennant from a more powerful Freehold means that you are welcome at a more powerful Court. It has its pros and cons, obviously.

7) Whats the mechanical difference between a Horror and a Monster shaping weapons?

Anything--I repeat, anything--can be used as a shaping weapon, even a random monster passing by. A Deep Wyld Horror refers to a specific class of behemoth, and has certain guidelines for its creation (FF, p. 211).

 

[Persell]

The roll is Willpower + Essence' date=' with a difficulty [i']equal to the number of successes from the shaping attack[/i]

That is, damage successes rather than attack successes.

3) when in creation (not bordermarches or middlemarches, but truely in creation) can a raksha vex, incumber, or ravish creatures?

I agree with Silence's take on this. Note also the charm Soul-Carving Artifice (E: FF 163) which "allows them to contest with one another in the thin and dreamless air of the Primordials' world."

4) can a creature whose Trait + Essence is higher than the raksha's Trait' date=' voluntarily not disbelieve in the glamour to recieve the benefits from it?[/quote']
From the wording, probably not. Most rules text say something along the lines of '...does not work...', '...does not apply', '...does not function...', and so on. It's a form of immunity, and I don't believe it can be turned off.

Yeah. E: FF 129: "Raksha can waive this immunity, but creatures of Creation cannot."

 

[wordman]

A pennant keeps the Fair Folk that bears it from withering in Creation without feeding from the appropriate Virtues.

I remember when throwing some Fair Folk into a story that I had a hell of a time tracking down to what this "withering" referred. Anyone got a page reference?

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

A pennant keeps the Fair Folk that bears it from withering in Creation without feeding from the appropriate Virtues.

I remember when throwing some Fair Folk into a story that I had a hell of a time tracking down to what this "withering" referred. Anyone got a page reference?

Yeah, see this is where I am confused on pennants and withering too.

1) for Ravishing' date=' Incumbrances, and Vexing; they each state to actively work against these effects require spending the victum's Cup, Ring, or Sword in willpower. When the victum is a creation born and doesnt have these traits, how is this handled?[/quote']
A successful shaping attack that results in Ravishing (Cup), Incumbering (Ring), Snaring (Staff), or Vexing (Sword) creatures that lack the proper Grace (note: a creature of Creation with the proper Grace is treated as one of the Fair Folk) allows the creature a resistance roll. The roll is Willpower + Essence, with a difficulty equal to the number of successes from the shaping attack; DBs get an additional die, Celestials get two extra dice, and Solars/Abyssals get three extra dice. Though it is not canonical, I would treat Alchemicals as Celestials, and am inclined towards giving Dragon Kings honorary DB status for this roll. Success means that the attack fails.


Charms and effects that reduce shaping soak reduce the WP + Essence roll as if it were shaping soak; however, the bonus dice can not be removed by shaping soak-reduction effects.


Fair Folk, p. 141, 144, 146, 148

Ok, perhaps I wasnt clear enough as to what I was asking.


Lets use the following example:


say I tried to ravish a creation born's conviction, AFTER I successfully ravish a creation born, the effects require that to be a passive witness to the scene I described, the creation born must spend a WP point. To be an active participant in the scene, he must spend HIS cup in WP points.

"Each scene of active participation costs Willpower equal to the victim's Cup."

Ok, perhaps that is more clear as to what I was asking. As for the rest of everyone's answers, thanks they helped alot, its just these two issues I'm still having.

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

Got some more inquires, but these are more thematic then rulesy.


8) When a raksha shapes the wyld, how obvious should it be that the raksha is the cause of a particular happening?


9) I havent had a chance to read through the Mountain Folk stuff yet, and I was curious, how hard would it be to include one of them in a more Raksha centered game?

 

[Silence In Daylight]

8) When a raksha shapes the wyld, how obvious should it be that the raksha is the cause of a particular happening?

 For non-Fair Folk that aren't familiar with how FF function in the Marches, I'd argue slim to none. After a while, the Creation-based creatures should start to suspect that the deadly purple dragonflies, cotton-candy trees, and the like are being directed by some higher power (instead of ranodm fluctuations of the Wyld).


 For FF and others familiar with shaping, I'd suggest a Perception + Lore/Occult/the Ability being used in the shaping action roll is in order, with the difficulty adjusted as appropriate.

9) I havent had a chance to read through the Mountain Folk stuff yet, and I was curious, how hard would it be to include one of them in a more Raksha centered game?

 Depends on the type of FF campaign you want to run. Any kind of Creation-invasion campaign would give a higher chance of interaction between the FF and a lone MF. However, even if the campaign takes place entirely in the Marches, said Mountain Folk can still make its way to one of the Courts. Its background must be carefully considered, though; why is it out in the middle of nowhere? Exile, explorer, chaos seer, spy, or something else? Being accepted by a Court can be a long storyline, in and of itself.

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

Ok I found the section on the withering, so I'm good there. (for the curious, it states that a raksha in creation without an assumption charm goes *POOF* )


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So I'm still confuzzled on the ravishing, etc of the creation born, so hopefully someone can help me out.


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Going back to the scene/story issue I was having.. according to pg132 under the heading "Scenes and Stories" it basically says that a "scene" is long enough for each raksha to take one shaping action (splitting actions aside) and a "story" is long enough for that particular shaping combat to last. (mind you I'm paraphrasing)  So anyways another way to look at it is to call them "shaping turns" and "shaping scenes" So on to my questions concerning this..


-first of all does this seem like an accurate depiction of the situation?


-and second, when taking into account backgrounds like Gossamer and Style, should these apply to standard scenes/stories or shaping's equivalents?

 

[OxStormTigerxO]

"Each scene of active participation costs Willpower equal to the victim's Cup."

I would presume for creation-born, when it comes to them spending willpower to work against a ravishing, Cup=Compassion. etc.

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

You think? Yeah, I guess that'll work until we hear an official answer....


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:lol:


sorry, I just cracked myself up about that "official" crack... :lol:

 

[Forn Clakes]

I've got a query regarding the Fair Folk: any idea how much Essence they recover and how?  I know they have feeding Charms and the like, but how about hourly rates or other methods?


Any references would be handy too


Cheers all,


~FC.

 

[Persell]

Hmmm, a difficult one. I don't recall any direct statements on the matter, and a quick glance in the obvious places didn't turn up any.


I can only offer for certain the fact that the "raksha can vividly feel the border with Creation. They instantly know when they cross the invisible line between a realm filled with the energies they require and the static deadness of Creation." (E: FF, 19). That sidebar also makes it clear that the bordermarches are Wyld.


So it supports my strong impression that Fair Folk don't respire Essence in Creation.

 

[OxStormTigerxO]

So it supports my strong impression that Fair Folk don't respire Essence in Creation.

Because they don't. Without a pennant at minimum they loose a mote a day unless they feed or stay in a demesne/freehold. A cyst negates withering and you can gain essence. A pennant just negates withering.

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

So it supports my strong impression that Fair Folk don't respire Essence in Creation.

Because they don't. Without a pennant at minimum they loose a mote a day unless they feed or stay in a demesne/freehold. A cyst negates withering and you can gain essence. A pennant just negates withering.

Do you know where this is stated, cuz I cant find it?

 

[Silence In Daylight]

The mote-a-day Essence loss is from the Fair Folk appendix in Scavenger Sons. The cyst and pennant information is in the Freehold section (in the Settings chapter of FF) and the backgrounds section of Traits.

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

The mote-a-day Essence loss is from the Fair Folk appendix in Scavenger Sons. The cyst and pennant information is in the Freehold section (in the Settings chapter of FF) and the backgrounds section of Traits.

ah, so they are using a rule from an old source for FairFolk with the new ones, but didnt feel the need to mention it in the FF book? Thats just stupid.  :roll:

 

[OxStormTigerxO]

If you read the section on the unshaped, I think it says something along the lines of "Unshaped can form temporary bodies blah blah blah, but they whither in the Wyld as shaped wither in Creation." Give me a few to look up stuff.


Edit:


Here we go. Doing a lovely wordsearch for "wither":


"The minds of an unshaped can leave the main body,


but wither in the Wyld like Fair Folk in Creation."  EFF pg 96


"While they cannot construct them, Fair Folk can own


Manses and Demesnes. In Demesnes and Manses, they


recover Essence as in the Wyld, and raksha who carry


Hearthstones do not wither in Creation. They do not,


however, receive the normal benefits of a Hearthstone â€â€


its power is dead to them."  EFF pg 109


"The smallest possible Cyst,


a pennant that does not help recover Essence but keeps the


raksha from withering in Creation, has an effective rating


of 1/3  so the architecture of a five-dot Freehold could


yield a two-dot Cyst, a one-dot Cyst and six pennants."  EFF pg 110


And here's the rule regarding withering from Scavenger Sons:


"Outside a Demesne or Wyld Region, Fair Folk slowly dwindle away, losing 1 point of temporary Essence a day. They can only regain this essence by feeding on mortal dreams and emotions, or by returning to a Demesne or the Wyld. When a faerie's temporary Essence reaches 0, the faerie begins to lose permanent Essence at the rate of 1 point per day, until the faerie reaches 0 permanent Essence and dies." SS pg 134

 

[Persell]

ah, so they are using a rule from an old source for FairFolk with the new ones, but didnt feel the need to mention it in the FF book? Thats just stupid.  :roll:

Borgstrom. I love her work; I hate her editing.

 

[SagaciousAscendingHero]

1) for Ravishing, Incumbrances, and Vexing; they each state to actively work against these effects require spending the victim's Cup, Ring, or Sword in willpower. When the victim is a creation born and doesnt have these traits, how is this handled?
Take the following example:


Let's say I tried to ravish a creation born's conviction, AFTER I successfully ravish a creation born, the effects require that to be a passive witness to the scene I described, the creation born must spend a WP point. To be an active participant in the scene, he must spend HIS cup in WP points.

"Each scene of active participation costs Willpower equal to the victim's Cup."

Ok, perhaps that is more clear as to what I was asking. As for the rest of everyone's answers, thanks they helped alot, its just these two issues I'm still having.

I'm reposting this to see if anyone has found an answer to my issue with this. Also I have issues with the effects being based on the victim's Graces, that just seems odd that a Raksha who specializes in Valor shaping attacks, would be more vulnerable to Vexing. Its like having a Melee charm that hurts the target more if he has a high Melee.. thats just silly to me.

 

[Persell]

I'm reposting this to see if anyone has found an answer to my issue with this.

I'm pretty sure there's no answer. It's just a hole in the rules. I don't like the idea of using virtues instead, because graces are not virtues, but I can't see a better solution.

Also I have issues with the effects being based on the victim's Graces, that just seems odd that a Raksha who specializes in Valor shaping attacks, would be more vulnerable to Vexing. Its like having a Melee charm that hurts the target more if he has a high Melee.. thats just silly to me.

Well, the sense it makes is that the Raksha define themselves through their graces. So having a strong grace undermined does more damage to a Raksha than having a weak grace undermined. Additionally, it's harder to undermine a strong grace, so the payoff for doing so should be greater.

 

[Spook]

Borgstrom. I love her work; I hate her editing.

yeah becasue she edited the book.  You can lay that complaint at the feet of the new Developer.

 

[OxStormTigerxO]

1) for Ravishing, Incumbrances, and Vexing; they each state to actively work against these effects require spending the victim's Cup, Ring, or Sword in willpower. When the victim is a creation born and doesnt have these traits, how is this handled?
Take the following example:


Let's say I tried to ravish a creation born's conviction, AFTER I successfully ravish a creation born, the effects require that to be a passive witness to the scene I described, the creation born must spend a WP point. To be an active participant in the scene, he must spend HIS cup in WP points.

"Each scene of active participation costs Willpower equal to the victim's Cup."

Here's a deliciously evil idea I just thought up...if the creation-born has no grace...they can spend no willpower. Therefore, totally impossible for them to actively participate. I think it's fairly in line with raksha making people puppets.