Exalted + Eberron = ??

[Kyeudo]

Well, how strong should a starting D&D character be? Should he be just the same as a Heroic Mortal from Creation? Or should he be a little stronger, with a couple of Feats under his belt?


If we go for the first, then we'll want to take your aproach and pull the value of any racial traits out of the race's possible Bonus Points. If we go for the other, we can give starting D&D characters a couple of feats and their racial traits on top of the normal stuff. Which sounds better?


On a side note, I've looked at the House Ferem character creation guidelines, and I don't see how they are worse than regular Outcaste guidelines. Did I miss something?

 

[Joni-san]

Well, how strong should a starting D&D character be? Should he be just the same as a Heroic Mortal from Creation? Or should he be a little stronger, with a couple of Feats under his belt?

Both are possible.


The Kingdom of Galifar had a good educational system and it tried to provide for everyone. Even during the Great War the 5 Kingdoms tried to uphold these traditions. Not to mention the greater social mobility than the Realm. The Great War is also a factor to consider, as PC's could be Veterans, and it's been over for 4 years by now. Things like these tip the scale to a little stronger end.


Then again, not everyone fought in the war and not everyone had the chances to advance.

If we go for the first, then we'll want to take your approach and pull the value of any racial traits out of the race's possible Bonus Points. If we go for the other, we can give starting D&D characters a couple of feats and their racial traits on top of the normal stuff. Which sounds better?

I admit to having powergamer tendencies (even for munchkin-ism), the second sounds a bit better.

On a side note, I've looked at the House Ferem character creation guidelines, and I don't see how they are worse than regular Outcaste guidelines. Did I miss something?

Actually Ferem DB are created using Dynast rules. However, they lose 5 points and have to use standard Artifact and Manse rules.


While I sort of understand why, Outcaste creation is weaker than either Dynast or Lookshy DB.

 

[Kyeudo]

The Kingdom of Galifar had a good educational system and it tried to provide for everyone. Even during the Great War the 5 Kingdoms tried to uphold these traditions. Not to mention the greater social mobility than the Realm. The Great War is also a factor to consider, as PC's could be Veterans, and it's been over for 4 years by now. Things like these tip the scale to a little stronger end.


...


I admit to having powergamer tendencies (even for munchkin-ism), the second sounds a bit better.

So let's go with giving them racial traits plus starting feats. It makes our job easier.


Since we're giving out racial traits, normal humans will get their own. The best match would be an additional Feat and an aditional Favored Ability. Other racial traits should either fall in line with that in power or come out of bonus points.


So, what do we give for racial traits? Some of the iconic racial traits, such as a Dwarf's ability to carry heavy loads unhindered, just don't model well in Exalted, where carrying capacity isn't a big deal and speed is based on Dexterity.


How do we handle Ability score modifiers for the other races? Do we increase the Attribute cap for them or not? Do we also impose Attribute penalties on them?

 

[Joni-san]

So let's go with giving them racial traits plus starting feats. It makes our job easier.

Yeah, it does.

Since we're giving out racial traits, normal humans will get their own. The best match would be an additional Feat and an additional Favored Ability. Other racial traits should either fall in line with that in power or come out of bonus points.

Sounds in line with D&D Humans here.

So, what do we give for racial traits? Some of the iconic racial traits, such as a Dwarf's ability to carry heavy loads unhindered, just don't model well in Exalted, where carrying capacity isn't a big deal and speed is based on Dexterity.

Ah yes, sometimes certain abilities don't translate well. I figure we could look for other trains in the racial archetypes. We could also check Prestige Classes and Paragon Paths for inspiration.


For Dwarves Dorfs, how about a look at the Dwarven Defender? There should be an ability that improves stability, no? Is there a ability in Exalted that gives improved stability?


I suppose we'll have to check races bit by bit.

How do we handle Ability score modifiers for the other races? Do we increase the Attribute cap for them or not? Do we also impose Attribute penalties on them?

Raising the Attribute Cap is a good idea. We could settle for just using this.


I vote against penalties unless there is a bonus. Or did you mean simply lowering an Attribute cap?


To use the Dwarf as an example, I think +1 to Stamina and -1 to Dexterity is within reason.

 

[Kyeudo]

Ah yes, sometimes certain abilities don't translate well. I figure we could look for other trains in the racial archetypes. We could also check Prestige Classes and Paragon Paths for inspiration.


For Dwarves Dorfs, how about a look at the Dwarven Defender? There should be an ability that improves stability, no? Is there a ability in Exalted that gives improved stability?


I suppose we'll have to check races bit by bit.

There are bonuses against knockdown, but it doesn't seem to come up much.


Perhaps we should boil down each race to their iconic traits as a place to start and see what ideas come from there. My list would be:


Dwarves are tough and hard to slow down.


Elves are agile and have good senses.


Gnomes are ???


Half-Elves are ???


Half-Orcs are strong but stupid.


Halflings are small tricksters.


Changlings can change shape.


Shifters can shift.


Warforged have construct traits.


Kalashatar are psychic.

Raising the Attribute Cap is a good idea. We could settle for just using this.


I vote against penalties unless there is a bonus. Or did you mean simply lowering an Attribute cap?


To use the Dwarf as an example, I think +1 to Stamina and -1 to Dexterity is within reason.

Well, my initial thoughts was to give them the +1 to an appropriate stat and a -1 to another. They'd get both the dot and an adjustment to the maximum cap, so a Half-Orc would find himself maxing out at Intelligence 4 but he could reach Strength 6.


A problem arises when you consider that someone might decide they don't want to put dots into a stat and then they also take a penalty there, which could lead to someone having a 0 in a score. Apearance 0 is okay, since that just means you are ugly as sin, but a Strength of 0 means you can't move. Other stats have less defined 0 states. What happens when you have a Charisma of 0?

 

[Joni-san]

There are bonuses against knockdown, but it doesn't seem to come up much.

Hmmm... Anything else we can use? Steal something from the Mountainfolk? Maybe a bonus to Craft?

Perhaps we should boil down each race to their iconic traits as a place to start and see what ideas come from there. My list would be:
*Snip*

Sounds good. Although we need to cross check with Eberron's more specific ideas once in a while.

Gnomes are ???


Half-Elves are ???

For Half-Elves, check "The Khoravar: Half-Elves of Khorvaire" by Keith Baker. Straight from the cows horses mouth.


Gnomes in Eberron are marked (hehe...) by Zilargo and House Sivis. Check The Gnomes of Zilargo, Part 1 and Part 2.


The Dragonshard article archive is worth checking.

Well, my initial thoughts was to give them the +1 to an appropriate stat and a -1 to another. They'd get both the dot and an adjustment to the maximum cap, so a Half-Orc would find himself maxing out at Intelligence 4 but he could reach Strength 6.


A problem arises when you consider that someone might decide they don't want to put dots into a stat and then they also take a penalty there, which could lead to someone having a 0 in a score. Apearance 0 is okay, since that just means you are ugly as sin, but a Strength of 0 means you can't move. Other stats have less defined 0 states. What happens when you have a Charisma of 0?

Maybe we need to specify that you must have at least one dot? Not the most elegant solution I admit.


We could simply raise the cap and say that no bonus points are needed to raise a trait to 4 dots.


What about just giving a bonus? Each race gets +1 dot in ability? Humans would get to choose which one.

 

[Kyeudo]

Hmmm... Anything else we can use? Steal something from the Mountainfolk? Maybe a bonus to Craft?

I don't know much about the Mountainfolk, so you've got me there.

Sounds good. Although we need to cross check with Eberron's more specific ideas once in a while.

Well, what do you think the iconic abilities of each race are?

For Half-Elves, check "The Khoravar: Half-Elves of Khorvaire" by Keith Baker. Straight from the cows horses mouth.


Gnomes in Eberron are marked (hehe...) by Zilargo and House Sivis. Check The Gnomes of Zilargo, Part 1 and Part 2.


The Dragonshard article archive is worth checking.

Well, that's a cultural thing. I'm talking about racial traits. When you think of Gnomes, what is the first racial trait that comes to mind? And with Half-Elves?

Maybe we need to specify that you must have at least one dot? Not the most elegant solution I admit.


We could simply raise the cap and say that no bonus points are needed to raise a trait to 4 dots.


What about just giving a bonus? Each race gets +1 dot in ability? Humans would get to choose which one.

Requiring you to have at least one dot would work, but the "only bonuses" idea has merit. If we gave a floating +1 to Humans, though, that would be better than a fixed +1 for other races. What do we do to counteract that? Give two +1s in 4th Edition style?

 

[Joni-san]

I don't know much about the Mountainfolk, so you've got me there.

I guess we need a consult.


IIRC correctly there are many types of them. One type is similar to D&D Dorfs and another resembles D&D Elfves.

Well, what do you think the iconic abilities of each race are?

Idunnolol.jpg

Well, that's a cultural thing. I'm talking about racial traits. When you think of Gnomes, what is the first racial trait that comes to mind? And with Half-Elves?

Gnomes? Illusion Magic and Alchemy (And Badgers


Half Elves? Jack Of All Trades and Diplomats (Also Emo)

Requiring you to have at least one dot would work, but the "only bonuses" idea has merit. If we gave a floating +1 to Humans, though, that would be better than a fixed +1 for other races. What do we do to counteract that? Give two +1s in 4th Edition style?

Eh, why not. *Shrug*

 

[Kyeudo]

Gnomes? Illusion Magic and Alchemy (And Badgers


Half Elves? Jack Of All Trades and Diplomats (Also Emo)

Alright, so now we need to turn those iconic abilities into something like a Feat.


We can give Changlings their Shapeshift as their Feat and Shifters get Shifting. I think if we give Warforged their Immunities and Composite Plating as their Feat, that would work. The rest are harder.


As for Attribute bonuses, my thoughts:


Dwarf: +1 Stamina, +1 Perception


Elf: +1 Dexterity, +1 Perception


Gnome: +1 Stamina, +1 Intelligence


Half-Elf: +1 Charisma, +1 Perception


Half-Orc: +1 Strength, +1 Stamina


Halfling: +1 Dexterity, +1 Manipulation


Changeling: +1 to any one Attribute??


Warforged: +1 Stamina, +1 Wits


Shifter: +1 Dexterity, +1 Wits


Kalashatar: +1 to any one Attribute?? +1 Perception, +1 Wits??

 

[Joni-san]

Alright, so now we need to turn those iconic abilities into something like a Feat.


We can give Changelings their Shapeshift as their Feat and Shifters get Shifting. I think if we give Warforged their Immunities and Composite Plating as their Feat, that would work. The rest are harder.

Sounds good.


On that note, how do we treat Warforged upgrading their armour? 3.5E style Feats or 4E Armour use? The latter would be simpler.

As for Attribute bonuses, my thoughts:
Dwarf: +1 Stamina, +1 Perception


Elf: +1 Dexterity, +1 Perception


Gnome: +1 Stamina, +1 Intelligence


Half-Elf: +1 Charisma, +1 Perception


Half-Orc: +1 Strength, +1 Stamina


Halfling: +1 Dexterity, +1 Manipulation

Sounds good to me.

Changeling: +1 to any one Attribute??
Warforged: +1 Stamina, +1 Wits


Shifter: +1 Dexterity, +1 Wits


Kalashatar: +1 to any one Attribute?? +1 Perception, +1 Wits??

Well, in 3.5 neither Changelings or Kalashtar had stat modifiers. In 4E Changelings have either +2 Int OR +2 Cha. Kalashtar get +2 Wis and +2 Cha.


A floating +1 would work for Changelings. Kalashtar could go either way, although I'd change it to +1 Charisma and +1 Wits we go by locked here.

 

[Kyeudo]

Sounds good.


On that note, how do we treat Warforged upgrading their armour? 3.5E style Feats or 4E Armour use? The latter would be simpler.

Well, I don't see any reason that Warforged can't just swap out plating parts. I mean, they can repair themselves and install new parts without hurting themselves, so why not change out plates? Of course, Warforged Plating should be a type of armor only wearable by Warforged (everyone else lacks the bolt holes) and should be good enough for its type that it's worn in preference to similar types of armor. Probably should come in different grades, like Light Plating, Standard Plating, and Heavy Plating. Different materials can be applied to those.


Perhaps we should mine 4th Edition for ideas on Feat quality abilities to give to our races. I know that 4th gives Elves the ability to reroll a missed attack roll every encounter. That could work for our elves, but I don't have the 4th PHB so I can't speak for other races.

Well, in 3.5 neither Changelings or Kalashtar had stat modifiers. In 4E Changelings have either +2 Int OR +2 Cha. Kalashtar get +2 Wis and +2 Cha.


A floating +1 would work for Changelings. Kalashtar could go either way, although I'd change it to +1 Charisma and +1 Wits we go by locked here.

So, floating +1 for Changelings. How about we compromise on Kalashtar and say +1 Charisma and +1 Perception, since they seem more like deep thinkers rather than fast thinkers.


The Kalashtar bring up another issue. How are we going to handle Psionics? The spellcasting feats so far model Wizards and Clerics well, but it leaves normal spellcasting very similar to the normal way that psionics works. Then there's psionic focus. Should we just use a point of Willpower in place of Psionic Focus expenditure?


On a related note, should we include Arcane Spell Failure from armor? And how do we make Sorcerers (the D&D class) different from Wizards?

 

[Joni-san]

*Snip on 'Forged plating.*

Sounds good. This is basically what I was thinking.

Perhaps we should mine 4th Edition for ideas on Feat quality abilities to give to our races. I know that 4th gives Elves the ability to reroll a missed attack roll every encounter. That could work for our elves, but I don't have the 4th PHB so I can't speak for other races.

A Good idea.

So, floating +1 for Changelings. How about we compromise on Kalashtar and say +1 Charisma and +1 Perception, since they seem more like deep thinkers rather than fast thinkers.

Yes, that's correct.


I sort of forgot that Exalted's Perception is a bit like D&D's Wisdom.


Another thing I had forgotten earlier: 4E Changelings get +2 Dex and (+2 Cha or +2 Int).

The Kalashtar bring up another issue. How are we going to handle Psionics? The spellcasting feats so far model Wizards and Clerics well, but it leaves normal spellcasting very similar to the normal way that psionics works. Then there's psionic focus. Should we just use a point of Willpower in place of Psionic Focus expenditure?

I think using willpower will work for Psionic Focus.


As for Psionics as a whole: Well, most of the time Psionics has been a separate mechanic, but for simplicity's sake we could use mechanics similar to our "normal" spellcasting.

On a related note, should we include Arcane Spell Failure from armor?

Does Exalted have this?


Personally I'm leaning against Arcane Spell Failure. In 3.5 there were numerous Feats and PRCs to minimize or erradicate ASF. 4E did away with it completely. Plus, it's a cumbersome mechanic at times.

And how do we make Sorcerers (the D&D class) different from Wizards?

Maybe the best way to separate Exalted Eberron Sorcerer from the Wizard is flavour. Mechanically it's the same, but RP'd differently.


Then there's the problem of the Artificer... Feat Tree for Infusions maybe? How do we handle creation of Magic Items?

 

[Kyeudo]

So, what racial abilities from 4th can we repurpose?

I think using willpower will work for Psionic Focus.


As for Psionics as a whole: Well, most of the time Psionics has been a separate mechanic, but for simplicity's sake we could use mechanics similar to our "normal" spellcasting.

Idea: Perhaps we have psionic Powers be more flexible than Spells. A Wizard knows Searing Ray and Fireball, but a Psion knows Energy Projection, which can mimic both.

Does Exalted have this?


Personally I'm leaning against Arcane Spell Failure. In 3.5 there were numerous Feats and PRCs to minimize or erradicate ASF. 4E did away with it completely. Plus, it's a cumbersome mechanic at times.

Exalted doesn't have it by default, no, but it wouldn't be hard to add it if we wanted. I know Arcane Spell Failure exists only to keep wizards wearing robes, but it made its way into alot of fluff.

Maybe the best way to separate Exalted Eberron Sorcerer from the Wizard is flavour. Mechanically it's the same, but RP'd differently.


Then there's the problem of the Artificer... Feat Tree for Infusions maybe? How do we handle creation of Magic Items?

I'm not sure infusions need to use a different set of feats from spellcasting. The only difference between the two is really casting time and targets.

 

[Joni-san]

BUMP!

 

[Kyeudo]

I thought you'd lost interest.

 

[Joni-san]

Well, I had. But I got bored and thought "Eh, why not continue with this."

 

[Kyeudo]

Well, I'm still here, but I've forgotten just exactly where we were on the project and I haven't made real progress since. Where do you want to restart from?

 

[Joni-san]

Well, I'm still here, but I've forgotten just exactly where we were on the project and I haven't made real progress since. Where do you want to restart from?

Sorry for not being able to get back to this (again). Had a busy week. Lots of work.


Well, let's look at what we have more or less done IMO:


* Races (basic stuff)


* Feats and Magic


* Dragonmarks


* Planes


Perhaps re-posting "finished" stuff on a new thread or on the wiki would be a good idea. For quick viewing.


What we need to work on:


* Racial Special Goodies


* Psionics


* Paladin


* Items


I could have sworn I saw a Psionic system here somewhere. Was it Jukashi who made it?


Creatures of Darkness issue: Low Virtues doesn't really work. One suggestion is that "evil" religions counts as being akuma. One idea for what determines CoD status in Eberron: the vestiges of Siberys.

 

[Kyeudo]

Well, l guess our Creature of Darkness problem boils down to one of two solutions:


Universal Definition: Eberron has a definition for Creature of Darkness written into it for some reason. Either Siberys or Eberron defined in back in the time before time or some other principle forces it to exist.


Divine Decree: Something decrees a set of Creatures of Darkness for every religion. This may be the gods themselves, celestials of one type or another, or something else, but the list of what is and is not a Creature of Darkness is different for every religion.


Personally, I want to find some explanation that allows us to mix the two in some sane way. See, I want to have a Paladin of the Blood of Vol and a Paladin of the Silver Flame get in a fight, both use smite evil on the other, and both feel the divine wrath of the other's god, but I don't want to have the gods explicitly exist, else the muddy morality of Eberron starts to slip away.

 

[Joni-san]

I think Univeral Definition is the way to go. Perhaps a little blending could help. This could account for the power of belief.

 

[Kyeudo]

Hmm. Thinking this over, that would fit with D&D's assumptions about objective alignment. Why not? Let's run with it. So, we'll throw out four objective definitions: Creatures of Darkness, Creatures of Light, Creatures of Chaos, and Creatures of Order. We'll need to define them broadly enough that doing enough good/evil/chaotic/orderly actions move you towards being one of them, but that small acts don't cause great swings immediately.


What do you think?

 

[Joni-san]

That sounds good.

 

[Joni-san]

Eberron Cosmology / Calendar Tool