Exalted Deathmatch VI

Which comes out on top: Survival or Death?

  • Silver Pact

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • First and Forsaken Lion

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The Lunars don't just have more Exalts; they have more experienced Exalts. Lunars fight other Chosen all the time. The Abyssals are good at killin' stuff, but the Lunars are better; because most of them have decades, if not centuries, of experience over them.


Lunars aren't like Solars or Abyssals, only fresh off their Exaltation; they're not like the DBs, with only 250 years to get powerful. And they're not like the Sidereals, with their low population. It's not just that they have lots of First Age Lunars; it's that they have lots of Shogunate, Contagion-era, and Reign of the Empress Lunars as well.
 
First and Forsaken Lion anyday of the week remember in one story ihe responsable for the death of Autochthon and then all of creation.
 
Alright, I'm going to do an Order of Battle so we can get this all straight, I shall try and include everything that these may bring to the fight. I will not be including personal artifacts, because good lord it would take a year and a day. Note: This is under assumption (my personal one) that there are 400 Lunar shards.


Silver Pact Forces:


200 Empress' Reign Lunars (between 20-800 years old) w/ varying artifacts of moonsilver or orichalcum even.


150 Shogunate Era Lunars (between 800-2300 years old) w/ their own personal panoplies.


50 First Age Lunars (between 2300-4000 years old) w/ their own panoplies.


Some tens of thousands of beastmen from all of these Lunars. Rough estimate: 90,000 to possibly 200,000


100 common warstriders


15 Royals (counting Ma-Ha-Suchi's two, Leviathan's military Depot, and Raksi's uncounted number)


30 Nobles (Leviathan's military Depot mainly, all have superior stealth capabilities and moderate shapeshifting abilities on the Royals)


A smattering of First Age weapons (implosion bows, lightning ballista, so on)


750,000 (rough estimate) of Wyld barbarians


A legion of allied spirits and elementals from the four corners of Creation.


Six Behemoths (I'm a firm believer SOME of the Lunars have 'tamed' a few)


The first two Circles of Sorcery.


If I'm missing anything please add Jukashi. I don't have Lunars, but this is what I've gathered from all the other books and cursory readings of Lunars. The Book of the Three Circles doesn't count, I know Raksi has it.


The Legion Sanguinary and First and Forsaken's power: (Source Abyssals and Book of Bone and Ebony)


750,000 war ghosts.


150,000 shamblers.


40 Noble Warstriders. (Numbers in Wonders say at LEAST this many)


10 Royals.


200 Bonestriders.


The Insidious Ebon Xoanon.


Walking on Laughter and her personal soulsteel panoply. (Essence 4 to 5 Abyssal Dusk)


Shatterer of the Way and his personal panoply. (Midnight unknown strength)


First and Forsaken and his personal might. (Essence ? DL 2nd Ed Stats not known)


The Princess Magnificent in *add title here* DL with a tight leash on by FaFL (I threw her in for completeness, I know FaFL wouldn't use her)


The Spider is the Web


500 Malestrom Barges


Hundreds, if not thousands of Sky Eaters.


The Final Maelstrom.


A few Thousand Corpse Warframes.


Countless war machines made from corpses.


A few hundred if not 1,000 Nemessaries out fitted with bodies for war, stealthy living look alikes or what have you.


A number of Battle Snakes (Think the huge MTTs from Episode 1 for the droids except for zombies).


His massive First Age equivalent production capability.


All three Circles of Necromancy, specifically geared for war and combat.


Both Circles of Sorcery.


There, that makes a firm Order of Battle me thinks, at least it shows what they bring to the party.
 
To be fair, I should point out that the full compliment of Lunars won't be coming to the party, as not all Lunars are part of the Silver Pact. If you assume 400 total Lunar shards, I'd say 300 will turn up. The 100 others makes up the chimerae, uncaring/stupid bastards, casteless and currently hostless shards.


Ok; now, to be complete, we should work out the place this is happening. In the south, or where? The effectiveness of many of the forces involved changes depending on what part of Creation this is happening in. For a lack of interference by too many DBs or Sidereals, and to get the Lunars properly commited, it should be taking place out past the Threshold somewhere, on the edge of the Wyld.
 
South then, cause the place would be sacked, seriously, regardless of the DBs, it would be nuked, a prime battleground. I also forgot to add the FaFL's own Behemoths, dead, but still the same. I can see him bringing the same number for the ass kicking.
 
In that case, it's mainly a disadvantage for the Lunars. Or, rather, the removal of an advantage; the weakness of the undead during the day is mitigated when it's too damn hot for anything else to do anything during the day, either.


Oh well, we've still got more than enough Lunars to handle everything. I think 50 Shogunate Lunars can handle the deathknights easily enough... send the rest, along with the young'uns and the mortals, to deal with the army. Hopefully the barbarians' experience with the Wyld will have inured them to mind-bending terror. So that leaves about, oh, 40 First Agers and their artifacts to take on the Big L.
 
Me thinks that not all the Wyld barbarians are enured to horror, despite their...origins. Do they not still run from the Dawns? Do they not still run from the Dusks? I have in no way ever read that the Wyld barbarians have gone toe-to-toe with the Dead aside from the North. And personally, I still think seeing some of your kinfolk as the swirling mass of bone talons and eating your arm would be a biiiiiiiiit horrifying to them.


Besides with each that falls shall rise as FaFL's new line man, both parts of him, soul and body. 2 for 1 sale. And I still attest he's a better strategist than the Lunars. I'm certain of it. Seriously, you can't argue that point, he's been doing it for nigh 5,000 years. How can you beat that kind of field acumen? And he's not stupid to what Lunars can do or what tricks they can pull. Hell he probably had a Lunar wife.


Btw, on another note, does anyone else here think that the Bull may be the modern reincarnation of FaFL?
 
That too, that's why I outlined most of his forces. It's all First Age, the lunars have some but not to the degree of dead man.
 
What about, Deathlords being able to slay mortals with a thought every beastman that dies will rise as a zombie and after the death toll gets high enough a shodow land will open and a good chunk of their hungry ghosts will start slaying their still living brothers, the Silver Pack attacking the First and Forsaken Lions forces would be suicide taking down the Mask of winters would be simpler and the plan I came up with to do it involves lots of Exalts, Gods, Allied Fay, GodBlooded of all types, and Dragon Kings and no Mortals beastmen included, and that would be hell itself.
 
Eh... oh well. The Lunars don't need their armies.


Yeah, you saw what I wrote. Fighting army vs. army means playing the game by the FaFL's rules, and the Lunars are smarter than that.


The key to victory in combat is to maximise your own advantages while minimizing those of your opponent, and vice versa for disadvantages. The Lion's main advantage- his huge army- is easily countered by the problem which is innate to all large forces; time taken to mobilise. The Lunars, numbering only in the hundreds, can communicate with each other in much less time and, with their shapeshifting powers, move much faster. The Lion's army counts for nothing if he cannot bring it to bear on his opponents. And that's only taking communication and speed into account; it doesn't count the Lunar's capacity for stealth and deception, which they are masters of.


The forces of the Underworld are good at killing stuff, but victory requires more than this. The FaFL's minions don't have powers that can speed up their army sufficiently to catch the Lunars.


With this, the Lunars can pick the time and place for their confrontations. Hit and run would be a good tactic if the FaFL's army weren't so immensely huge and so capable of replenishing itself... so you say. But even an army of the dead is similar to a living thing, with stress points and vulnerable spots, at places where flows of information and supplies must meet; such is the disadvantage to balance the advantages of being organised. The Lunars, scanning the army with the ears of a fox, the eyes of a hawk and the knowledge of armed forces from centuries of experience, can, with rapid strikes to the weak points of the FaFLs forces, cripple their enemy.


Once the army is immobilised, the Lunars are then free to decapitate the beast. They can fly, dig, swim and, with Celestial Circle Sorcery, teleport.


Can the FaFL and his deathknights survive when they're up to their necks in moonsilver claws and fangs? Sorry, but survival is what Lunars do.


And survival means defeating death itself.
 
What would killing FaFL do to his magically animated army? And dont forget Rakshi has the Book of Three Circles. That gives them LOTS of first and second circle spells to sling if they ever decides to scan its contents. LOTS of magme krakens and throw out dozens of second circle demons. Can FaFL due those too? Yes, but not nearly as many.
 
First, one the argument of the Demons. That's a retarded idea and even the Lunars know it. Start summoning a large force of demons, bound or not is advising the Sidereals that a moron is playing with Fate and needs t obe bitch slapped and LOOK! The Lunars are coming into Creation, not good, not good at all. Deploy three Circles to mop that up. PLUS! The demon thing...not a good idea. Why? Think on this, bound or not, demons have urges that no mortal or Exalted sorcerer can stop at all. 'Kill all of my foes' alright, they'll do that and everything else in the area. Now I'm sure you'll throw the greater good line at me to which I say,  :roll:


It's a cop out. Even the wisest Lunar will not really wanna sacrifice countless lives for nothing. Which can and may happen, even in the South.


Once again, aside from the Essence, Jukashi, where is this weakness? They're dead, they don't eat. They don't sleep, they keep moving and carrying out orders assissted by Essence 6-10 War charms for mobility and the vast necromancy of their lord. And you all seem to forget the notion of the Usurpation, eventually...numbers win. They do, they really do. The only reasons the Lunars lived as well know is they got the fuck out of dodge.


Besides ^_^ Even if you kill him, he will only come back more powerful than before. And I have nay heard of a Lunar venturing forth into the Underworld to find that Well of the Void.


Inevitability, as many a villain had put in many a time, is what comes in the end. Sooner or later, he'll win, and sit on their ashes, laughing at his victory.
 
Me thinks that not all the Wyld barbarians are enured to horror, despite their...origins. Do they not still run from the Dawns? Do they not still run from the Dusks? I have in no way ever read that the Wyld barbarians have gone toe-to-toe with the Dead aside from the North. And personally, I still think seeing some of your kinfolk as the swirling mass of bone talons and eating your arm would be a biiiiiiiiit horrifying to them.
Besides with each that falls shall rise as FaFL's new line man, both parts of him, soul and body. 2 for 1 sale. And I still attest he's a better strategist than the Lunars. I'm certain of it. Seriously, you can't argue that point, he's been doing it for nigh 5,000 years. How can you beat that kind of field acumen? And he's not stupid to what Lunars can do or what tricks they can pull. Hell he probably had a Lunar wife.
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Exactly how will he animate every corpse of a beatsman? And how will he gain control of every soul that dies on the battle field? He can't be everywhere at once.


Yes he is the best general but he is only ONE. Lunars will have at least 20-30 great generals among their numbers. With charms that will allow them to enchance their beastmen (so no beastmen will start running when they see the dead). I doubt the FaF can affect all his 750.000 soldiers with his charms. I also have the impression that you can't personally command a unit greater than 10000 people (magnitude 9).


The artifact the Lunars will have will be vastly more numerous than the ones the Lion posseses.  


Plus fact is that ghosts won't mean nothing to millienium old lunars.


Old changing moons will be able to saboatge his warmachines, spy against his army and harass his units with hit and run tactics.


No moons will totally overwhelm his spellcasting abilities. He casts one magma kraken, they cast 10. He summons a Hekaton they summon 10 2nd circle demons. They will have imbued amagalms, creatures created from spawing of mosters. And they will be able to cast far more spells in each battle that he will be able to cast in the entire campaighn.
 
Exactly how will he animate every corpse of a beatsman? And how will he gain control of every soul that dies on the battle field? He can't be everywhere at once.
Yes he is the best general but he is only ONE. Lunars will have at least 20-30 great generals among their numbers. With charms that will allow them to enchance their beastmen (so no beastmen will start running when they see the dead). I doubt the FaF can affect all his 750.000 soldiers with his charms. I also have the impression that you can't personally command a unit greater than 10000 people (magnitude 9).


The artifact the Lunars will have will be vastly more numerous than the ones the Lion posseses.  


Plus fact is that ghosts won't mean nothing to millienium old lunars.
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You do realize this is standard practice for DL armies? They do have machines with enchantments on them to raise the dead. It's common fucking sense. Seriously, you honestly think he hasn't thought of this? Look at Patton, look at Rommel, Napoleon. Sure the last two were beaten, one by his peers and the other by Russia's winter and his peers. Now take one of them and magnify his intellect and masterful insight by several thousands of years of sharpening that mind. I'd say he's thought of it. And yes, they command more sorcerous power, I'm not daft.


But he's also not dumb enough to risk himself in battle against beings approaching his age. Besides, cannon fodder fights cannon fodder, this much I've learned from Exalted, the armies are socking it too one another backed up by charms and effects from their respective keepers. And you all too forget one thing, DL's can shapeshift in limited forms but they can do it, so he can slip away as well.


Once more I assert this point, that no matter how hard they try, unless they truly find his weakness, risk the monumental task of venturing into the Underworld they won't be rid of him. Shatter his army they might, but he will never go down. He'll keep coming back for more, and like the armies of yore, more powerful and terrifying than any will suspect. Besides he has one key on his side.


Surprise. virtually NO ONE, absolutely no one, read the books for this, know he's coming, so the opening salvos of this fight will be his and he will add to his ranks, 2 for 1 from every mortal killed and supply his ranks, he's not here for the land. He's here to consolidate, build his ranks and kill whomever is in his ways. I would suspect it would take as much time for Lunars to really kick the motor going against him when word finally spreads, so he has time to build and dig in if need be.
 
Actually for demons u jusy give them the task of destroying the SPECIFIC enemy and forbid them to kill those not involved in the conflict and there wont be countless deaths. Ya know that whole binding oath on the Yozis and all. They wont be aroung long enough to Break either.


And FaLF CANNOT shapeshift due to his armor.


And thier is no "standard practice" for DL armies. Never mentioned once in the book. Thier are a few attacks that are mentioned that are unique to them, but thats it.
 
Speaking of Demons and the following of orders... They might not be able to break orders (though they may try to circumvent them), but even so, accidents do happen. People (Demons) fuck up. What happens then? Nothing? Pain beyond comprehension?
 
just remember it does depend on the individual Demon's flaw


low limit Courtesans are usually exceedingly helpful and loyal
 
sorry but this is silly, we are speaking about 300-400 exalts against 6-9 exalts. ignore the armies, they will not make a difference. ignore the toys, they don't even the playing field here. yes the fafl is basically a first age solar (in combat, out of combat, he sucks compared to one), but there are about 5-6 first age lunars in canon... there could be around a dozen or more of them. every single one of them is able to beat the fafl in combat, yes not everyone would but all of them together, it is a no brainer. and his 5-6 puppy abyssals? please. a single lunar of moderate age (300 years perhaps... of those there are plenty around... actually 300 years is probably quite young) will hand them their angsty goth asses on a plate.


and the princess? he will 1. not use them and 2. she will betray him on the first opportunity.


and the fafl's great "first age army" (meh it is not even a proper first age army, it is shogunate era at best), he has a lot of toys... but really... a ghost in a warstrider is still a ghost and will have a very hard time doing much with it.
 
Have you ever heard the term you can't beat an enemy that dosn't stay dead once you kill him, remember mummys in the world of darkness, yeah sure you can atomize one keep him down for a year or so but, evenchuly he rises a very unhappy person with a vendetta that no matter how good you are one day he will win.


The First and Forsaken Lion follows the same rules, and the Lion controling all the risen HungryGs if they are with in a certain range of him he gets control as per being a death lord.


Now as for this sneeking around shit on the Lunars part, they are good at it, very good at it, but they are going to go into the underworld hundreds of miles from thier prey where they can't regain essence and attack him where he lives with his vast powers and his essence? I think not.
 
I am pretty sure that when you half a dozen first age lunars want you dead, then you are not coming back, deathlord or not. some firstager surely still has his toothbrush of primodial slaying lying around somewhere and that's it. or they just chain him up and throw him into the void at one point or another...
 
You do realize this is standard practice for DL armies? They do have machines with enchantments on them to raise the dead. It's common fucking sense. Seriously, you honestly think he hasn't thought of this? Look at Patton, look at Rommel, Napoleon. Sure the last two were beaten, one by his peers and the other by Russia's winter and his peers. Now take one of them and magnify his intellect and masterful insight by several thousands of years of sharpening that mind. I'd say he's thought of it. And yes, they command more sorcerous power, I'm not daft.


But he's also not dumb enough to risk himself in battle against beings approaching his age. Besides, cannon fodder fights cannon fodder, this much I've learned from Exalted, the armies are socking it too one another backed up by charms and effects from their respective keepers. And you all too forget one thing, DL's can shapeshift in limited forms but they can do it, so he can slip away as well.


Once more I assert this point, that no matter how hard they try, unless they truly find his weakness, risk the monumental task of venturing into the Underworld they won't be rid of him. Shatter his army they might, but he will never go down. He'll keep coming back for more, and like the armies of yore, more powerful and terrifying than any will suspect. Besides he has one key on his side.


Surprise. virtually NO ONE, absolutely no one, read the books for this, know he's coming, so the opening salvos of this fight will be his and he will add to his ranks, 2 for 1 from every mortal killed and supply his ranks, he's not here for the land. He's here to consolidate, build his ranks and kill whomever is in his ways. I would suspect it would take as much time for Lunars to really kick the motor going against him when word finally spreads, so he has time to build and dig in if need be.
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Perhaps its in the book of bone and ebony but I am not familiar with any way that allows you to animate thousands of corpses and control their ghosts. Necromancy? Yes but to animate thousands would be an insane essence drain.


And doubt if he has the choice to risk himself in battle with first age lunars. What will he do? Retreat? Hide? Unless he want's to loose battle after battle when packs of first age Lunars approach him he will have to face them.


Cannon foder fights whatever comes its way. If a thousand year old full moon comes your way you haven't much of a choice. And I imagine full moons lead from the front :) . Plus nothing stops them from using


war charms on their troops and then entering combat.


If the Lion falls, Lunars will make short work of his army. Shattering his army will be devastating for the lion. It took him thousands of years to create it. And it will take hundreds of years to bring it back to its former glory. Not to mention some artifacts, like warstriders, Lunars will steal will be irreplacable.
 
Safim said:
I am pretty sure that when you half a dozen first age lunars want you dead, then you are not coming back, deathlord or not. some firstager surely still has his toothbrush of primodial slaying lying around somewhere and that's it. or they just chain him up and throw him into the void at one point or another...
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Just kill him normally and destroy his army. Bye bye for a couple of centuries.


If you really want him out for thousands of years, slay him with a spirit slaying charm. It will take him a century to reform.
 
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