Essence Pool and Prosthetics of Clockwork Ellegance

[Ker'ion]

If the Essence of a creature is based on their being or soul (this argument doesn't quite cover Celestial Exalts, as they get the whole Shard perk, though it should still constitute a minor loss), shouldn't losing part of your body to Prosthetics cut your mote pool down?


Say, an overall loss of one or two permanent motes per point of Prosthetic implants?


What say you of this?

 

[Smeggedoff]

hmm, I'd posibly consider the gates of virtue to be the sources of an exalts essence (as they're the closest think I know of in exalted to Chakra gates) and they descend in a straight line forehead to groin


although I guess it'd depend where it pools, not where it comes from.


I can't see DB's storing large quantities of essence in their limbs though

 

[Ker'ion]

You can have any part (including your spinal column) replaced with Prosthetics in game.  So a new skull, windpipe, heart or other internal or external organ could be replaced or enhanced by use of this Artifact.


And there goes a Chakra point.

 

[Thenlar]

That's... a pretty interesting question. Huh. I mean, where does the Exalted shard "reside?"


I don't think this is something that can be definitively answered broadly, probably more on a case-by-case basis.


At what point does the body stop being organic enough to hold an Exaltation? Is  being organic even necessary? Can you be Exalted and be 100% mechanical (ignoring the prospect of Alchemical Exalts here)?


As an ST, I would probably start to assess penalties when a character's body became more than.. hmm... half mechanical, or so. However, my penalties would probably be scaling. At first, you might lose some motes from your pool. Then you might start taking XP penalties when trying to raise your Essence. Then loss of Essence dots, up until you are 100% mechanical (except for the brain, I guess) and lose all capability to channel essence.


Something that comes to mind is something from the 1E Lunars book, where they had rules for Wyld mutants. If a Wyld mutant Exalted, they had to pay extra XP when they were trying to raise Essence (and buy Charms, I think?).


Perhaps you could adapt that system to this situation as well.

 

[magnificentmomo]

Reminds me of Essence in Shadowrun.

 

[Arthur]

I don't see it in a physical way. Both the soul and the shard in exalted seem to be connected to the body, but they are nevertheless spiritual elements, not stored directly with specific parts of the it. Compare it on the religions on which the concept of Essence seems to have been based, like Taoism, for example. In Taoism, the qi, which is very, very close to the concept of Essence we find in Exalted, is an energy that permeates everything, and it flows. It is never really part of one's body, though it can be accumulated. I think Essence works like that. The personal Essence is the maximum amount of Essence you can have in your body at any time (and it is not related to your size or really in you in any physical way. Otherwise, Kejak would have very little PE and Mount Mostah would be able to feed the whole army of Warstriders from the Ream with its personal pool alone), and Peripheral Essence is the maximum of ambient Essence you can channel in a certain period of time.


That makes a lot of assumptions, of course, but assuming it is how it works, I can't see how loss of a limb could affect your Essence capabilities.

 

[Fruan]

I'm pretty sure it's been canonically stated that the exaltation resides in the hun - the lower soul. That's why the hungry ghosts of exalts are so fucking scary: That's the bit that was all big and powerful in life.

 

[Smeggedoff]

You can have any part (including your spinal column) replaced with Prosthetics in game.  So a new skull, windpipe, heart or other internal or external organ could be replaced or enhanced by use of this Artifact.
And there goes a Chakra point.

good point there, sliding away from essence and fully into virtues for now, what happens if some cheeky anathema uses his grimscythe to part you from your family jewels? does your valor drop to 0?


tbh if a Dawn cast performed an impromptu vasectomy on me I'd prolly be scared s**tless too

 

[Torak]

You can have any part (including your spinal column) replaced with Prosthetics in game.  So a new skull, windpipe, heart or other internal or external organ could be replaced or enhanced by use of this Artifact.
And there goes a Chakra point.

Or this artefact enhances your pool. I would see it both ways (pool reduced because of limb loss until you get prosthetics) or none at all and thus agree with Arthur in that it's not physical at all...

 

[wordman]

shouldn't losing part of your body to Prosthetics cut your mote pool down?

In what way does doing this make your Exalted story better?

 

[Flagg]

shouldn't losing part of your body to Prosthetics cut your mote pool down?

Why?


Do larger people have bigger mote pools?


Would a Wyld-mutated 3rd arm give you a bigger mote pool?

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Just losing limbs doesn't decrease your motes...so I don't see why having replacements would do so anymore than the simple cost of attunement to them. Larger and smaller people don't have different essence pools, nor is there anything preventing a quadruple amputee from having a full essence pool. (Now, receiving Exaltation as such is unlikely, but if it happens after...well, there's charms that do that...sucks to be you.) If you WANT to inflict such in games you run, as something similar to the issues found in various games involving cybernetics, that is your business...however it is certainly not cannonical.

 

[Ker'ion]

shouldn't losing part of your body to Prosthetics cut your mote pool down?

In what way does doing this make your Exalted story better?

I'm going for a magical versus pseudo-technological barier of some sort and an looking for a way to set it up.
And there is nothing in cannon relating to this question either way.  That is why I posted it on the forum, because no answer in cannon does not mean the problem just isn't there.


And people IRL begin to get a feeling of detachment from life when they have prosthetics implanted, especially a fake heart.  Thus, even if it is only in their mind, they seem to be less of a person overall, as if sometyhing got lost in the transition.  I'm just giving that loss a mechanical bent.

 

[wordman]

In what way does doing this make your Exalted story better?

I'm going for a magical versus pseudo-technological barier of some sort and an looking for a way to set it up.

I'd think the commitment cost of the prosthetics would take care of this. Saying "installation of this thing reduces your mote pool by X" vs. "installation of this thing forces the commitment of X" is the same mechanical effect.


The only other thing Exalted does canonically that acts similarly to sytems that, say, limit how much cyberware a character can have is the mutation/Essence cap used for Fair Folk.

 

[Persell]

Autochthon was the one who crafted the Exalted shards; he's also the Primordial best known for his advanced, clockwork-esque craft. As such, I suspect that the Exalted Shards would be in a prime position to adapt to such enhancements.


If you don't like that, the Clockwork prosthetics have an attunement cost, which, as Wordman says, is basically the same thing. Exalts have to commit Essence in order to make their artificial part move. I'd probably give the option to unattune such parts on the fly: while you wouldn't automatically regain the motes, you'd be able to temporarily increase your maximum pool, at the cost of having a non-functional arm/leg/whatever. This is probably not a good idea for those with clockwork hearts or spines, unless the player wants to try a really risky method of feigning death.


Though, admittedly, I personally want to stay as far away from Shadowrun's "prosthetics eat your soul" thing. I'm not a big fan of that.


Actually, another neat idea would be to have player potentially start accruing Alchemical Clarity if they replace too many parts, to represent the fact that they've unintentionally become something akin to an Alchemical Exalt.

 

[Ker'ion]

I as thinking about doing pretty much just that instead.


Clarity-like symptoms plus normal attunement.  Maybe an alteration to Virtues to make them more like an unfeeling machine.


Up Valor (and/ or Conviction and Temperance) and lower Compassion?


On a matching basis, of course.  No extra perks allowed.

 

[Torak]

Is there such a big difference between

Though, admittedly, I personally want to stay as far away from Shadowrun's "prosthetics eat your soul" thing. I'm not a big fan of that.

and

Actually, another neat idea would be to have player potentially start accruing Alchemical Clarity if they replace too many parts, to represent the fact that they've unintentionally become something akin to an Alchemical Exalt.

?


(I must say I've only heard so much of Shadowrun...)

 

[Ker'ion]

Is there such a big difference between

Though, admittedly, I personally want to stay as far away from Shadowrun's "prosthetics eat your soul" thing. I'm not a big fan of that.

and

Actually, another neat idea would be to have player potentially start accruing Alchemical Clarity if they replace too many parts, to represent the fact that they've unintentionally become something akin to an Alchemical Exalt.

?


(I must say I've only heard so much of Shadowrun...)

Those two staements are actually nearly opposites.  One says don't affect them to take away their personality and make them soulless creatures and the other one says it would be a 'neat idea'.

 

[Persell]

"Maybe an alteration to Virtues to make them more like an unfeeling machine."


The Alchemical book, and believe the Wonders of the Lost Age book, gave automaton-equivalents for the four virtues, maybe that's something to look into, although Clarity is already Virtue-affecting by nature, as I recall.


And Torak, as for the difference between "prosthetics eat your soul" and Clarity, you're absolutely right: there's basically no difference. I just suggested it since I thought it was a better option that permanently reducing mote pools; I would probably not use such a rule myself.

 

[DugCoffin]

Just so I'm clear on this, decapitation is bad for one's essence, right?


:wink:

 

[Ker'ion]

Pretty much an [Essence -10] sort of thing, except I think you get to keep your Essence as a ghost.  Not sure, though.

 

[Chaka]

Just so I'm clear on this, decapitation is bad for one's essence, right?
:wink:

Few things are worse.

 

[Arthur]

Just so I'm clear on this, decapitation is bad for one's essence, right?
:wink:

Few things are worse.

With the exclusion of every Sidereal Style, few things are worse, yeah.

 

[Chaka]

OH, they can do fun things to you.


I really like Sidereals more and more lately.