Trueblood
New Member
What happens when a Sorceror summoned Demon or Elemental is directed by its summoner to attack an Eclipse? Does the protection still hold?
Eclipse Diplomatic Immunity
- Thread starter Trueblood
- Start date
Haku1
Ze Hamster of Lurkdom
If you go by the sidereal book in 1e, they do mention that Moonshadows ARE allowed in Yu-shan just like the eclipses (on official business), BUT they're treated as if they're enemy envoys or some such.
So, I would hold that there are no -official- immunity, but again... do you really want to mess with the Moonshadow?
Also... the Moonshadow's diplomacy works best in the underworld, where the denizens of the dead "respect" them as a face of their employers... etc etc. Aka, that they're representing one of the Deathlords or Neverborn as diplomats. Which means that as long as they ID themselves and behave like a diplomati (being polite and all), they'll get a chance to talk and walk away safely. Nothing more.
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As for summoning up an demon or elemental and siccing it on an eclipse / moonshadow. Their diplomatic powers don't work for that specific situation.
Their diplomatic powers only work IF they're there diplomatically to talk to a spirit / demon / fey. Combat negates such diplomacy. Unless someone is calling for a Parlay.
So, I would hold that there are no -official- immunity, but again... do you really want to mess with the Moonshadow?
Also... the Moonshadow's diplomacy works best in the underworld, where the denizens of the dead "respect" them as a face of their employers... etc etc. Aka, that they're representing one of the Deathlords or Neverborn as diplomats. Which means that as long as they ID themselves and behave like a diplomati (being polite and all), they'll get a chance to talk and walk away safely. Nothing more.
***
As for summoning up an demon or elemental and siccing it on an eclipse / moonshadow. Their diplomatic powers don't work for that specific situation.
Their diplomatic powers only work IF they're there diplomatically to talk to a spirit / demon / fey. Combat negates such diplomacy. Unless someone is calling for a Parlay.
Trueblood
New Member
If for whatever reason a fight breaks out between the Eclipse's Entourage and whatever entity it is they are dealing with, does that mean any future dealings with the entity will no longer be covered by diplomatic protection or does is the protection negated only for that encounter?
Haku1
Ze Hamster of Lurkdom
That pretty much breaks the diplomacy bit for this encounter. And future diplomacy encounters... will be by their nature VERY tense, with the entity stacking the deck as much... so that IF the eclipse or his buddies step out of line again... well... that's what the squads of Elemental soldiers with a bead on them are for.Trueblood said:
Arthur
One Thousand Club
I belive all this discution depends of the nature of Eclipse's imunity. If it's only a convention (like the one on our world: one should't act like Leonidas and kill a diplomat), I think not many in the age of sorrows would respect it. Many gods are so corrupted that killing a diplomat would'nt even count in their crimes. The ones in oficial bussiness in Yu-shan would surely respect the pact, though. Well, if the imunity is magical, it still depends: if the magic that protects the Eclipses is on the shard, I'm preety sure everybody would have to follow it, except from creatures more powerful than Sol, like the Yozis, Gaia and the Neverborn. Now, if the immunity is still magical but has it's power in the Loom of Fate, I don't see why the Fair Folk and the dead (or even anyone in the wyld) would have to respect it, as all these creatures are outside fate and thus aren't affected by the powers of the Loom. Yeah, and good luck taking a DL to Yu-shan to be judged for his crimes.
P.S.: I've just checked it, and in the core book, it says they are "ancient spirit pacts". So, maybe these pacts are just conventionated or maybe they are magical (as a Sanctified Pact). If conventional, I'd adopt the first case described in this post. If it is a sanctified pact, I'd say everyone has to follow it to avoid the curse.
But I still have a few questions about the Eclipses. What exactly can't they do to sustain the diplomatic state? What exactly do they mean by "legitimate business"? They can just pass by a guarding Elemental to take the orichalcum daiklave he is guarding? They could pass by walking throught Malfeas just "to know the town"?
P.S.: I've just checked it, and in the core book, it says they are "ancient spirit pacts". So, maybe these pacts are just conventionated or maybe they are magical (as a Sanctified Pact). If conventional, I'd adopt the first case described in this post. If it is a sanctified pact, I'd say everyone has to follow it to avoid the curse.
But I still have a few questions about the Eclipses. What exactly can't they do to sustain the diplomatic state? What exactly do they mean by "legitimate business"? They can just pass by a guarding Elemental to take the orichalcum daiklave he is guarding? They could pass by walking throught Malfeas just "to know the town"?
Haku1
Ze Hamster of Lurkdom
I've always seen it as you're there on 'official business'.
Such as going to them to talk business. To negociate stuff (like stop eating my people! or Here, have some of my men, but you owe me some favors!), but initating violence (for WHATEVER reason) ends it faster than you can blink.
As for your examples, you COULD use your diplomatic immunity to go talk to the elemental what was guarding said weapon, but it doesn't mean it'll let you walk away with it unless you can CONVINCE it that you should do so.
You could use your diplomatic immunity to go into Malfeas, and even walk about safely... but you're there for a reason, aren't you? You're there to talk to one of the Big boss, right? No, no... we insist on taking you the fastest way to meet him (or conversely, the slowest way if said Big boss doesn't want to meet you).
Such as going to them to talk business. To negociate stuff (like stop eating my people! or Here, have some of my men, but you owe me some favors!), but initating violence (for WHATEVER reason) ends it faster than you can blink.
As for your examples, you COULD use your diplomatic immunity to go talk to the elemental what was guarding said weapon, but it doesn't mean it'll let you walk away with it unless you can CONVINCE it that you should do so.
You could use your diplomatic immunity to go into Malfeas, and even walk about safely... but you're there for a reason, aren't you? You're there to talk to one of the Big boss, right? No, no... we insist on taking you the fastest way to meet him (or conversely, the slowest way if said Big boss doesn't want to meet you).
Arthur
One Thousand Club
I see. My Eclipse player was abusing a little, then. Thanks.
The relevant portion of the text to me is "Crowned
Suns and their companions who are on legitimate business
with those beings may not be attacked without just cause."
Getting to know the town isn't legitimate being with anyone except Malfeas himself, so anyone else can do what they wish. The "may not be attacked" part specifies a hard restriction, and "I don't like those old pacts" doesn't strike me as just cause. Stealing the sword theyre gaurding though, that's definitely cause for attack.
Suns and their companions who are on legitimate business
with those beings may not be attacked without just cause."
Getting to know the town isn't legitimate being with anyone except Malfeas himself, so anyone else can do what they wish. The "may not be attacked" part specifies a hard restriction, and "I don't like those old pacts" doesn't strike me as just cause. Stealing the sword theyre gaurding though, that's definitely cause for attack.
Vanman
Two Thousand Club
You shoud be aware that Eclipses do NOT have diplomatic immunity from the Neverborn and their denizens. That pact only applies to Yozis, the Fae and spirits. The Deathlords may choose to honor that immunity, but they are not bound by it.