Dragon Blooded are KOE?

The Mad hatter

The Mad hatter

Junior Member
everyone says this, but i just cant see it, i mean it looks to me more like the solars have more in commen with the Kuei-Jin then the dragon blooded... can anyone explain to me how the DB=KOE thing happened?
 
Uh... No? :P


I never really tried to follow all the linking between exalted the the old world of darkness. It is my understanding that:


Sids--> Mages


Lunar beastmen--> Garou and Changing breeds


Solars--> Hunters? Kuei Jin?


Abbyssals--> Vampires


DBs--> Whatever is left over.
 
From the making of Exalted, they've been pretty much straighforward with the whole thing. I don't have that link handy, so I leave it up to Haku or one of the other linkey sorts to post it up.


DB's become the Kuei-jin. They're the Immortals who fall. Kooky Scarlet Empress and Ebon Dragon. Wonder where that came from?


Lunars eventually degenerate and split their Shards to become the Changing Breeds.  Much more limited, and they've lost any memories of their former glory, laden down with a whole mythology that has little to do with the Lunars.


Dragon Kings eventually morph into the Mokole, and are confused with the Changing Breeds.


Solar Shards are shattered to eventually be fuel the Hunters, albeit greatly reduced and still affected by madness.


Abyssals eventually fall down and fuel the rise of Vampires. Not direct scions, but rather the last of the Abyssals father the various clans, as mere shadows of their former glory.


Sidereal Shards are shattered, and each piece of those Shards empowers a Mage, and again, they've lost a lot of knowledge of their origins.


God Bloods, Behemoths, and other critters are all shades of their former selves.  Mummies are at least relatively new to the world, despite their "ancient" lineage in the WoD.  No word on the Alchemicals or Infernals in how they fit into the scheme of things that I'm aware of, but others who have their ears closer to canonical ground might have better info.
 
To be honest, I've always found the Exalted & WoD thread to be weak, and i've never had an inclination to attempt to link them together in any way.  I have always viewed the Second Age & Exalted as a totaly seperate entity.


~FC.
 
I like the connections, but that's more for my own benifit than anything that will actually affect plots all that much.


Because there's the pesky 3rd Age that occurs before the 4th and dawning 5th of the WoD.  


In my Exalted game, I am sort of leaning towards gearing up to the dawn of the 3rd Age.  More for the choices that Exalted are going to have to make, and how that will shake down over the long, long, long years.  


In my mind, the dawn of the 3rd Age redefines the Creation entirely.  Shivers the Creation, kills almost all sentient life--at least the world that leads to the WoD.  The world is pretty much put back on reset, and the world has to turn a long time before life creeps back in, and the souls on the Wheel are able to find critters that can house them.  The DK's get their run again, but no humans to roll with, a whole world play with, and then disaster strikes, and wipes them off the face of the planet, again.  Wipes out all trace of their civilization even, based on biologic technology, and whether or not Mortal souls are manifested, is up to debate, but certainly not a lot of other Exalts.  Whether or not demons and other critters were involved, like the Anansi is still up to debate for that, but I like to populate my 3rd Age with lots of mysteries.  And it continues for a long time, until human souls are able to pop up again, this time in primates, who have been shaped long and hard by the Gods and Spirits, tapped out for Essence and worship and weak.  Things go along well, until the Sundering occurs, splitting the Spirit and Mortal realms, a cataclysmic shiver throughout the Creation again, ushering in the 4th Age.  By this time, the events of the 3rd and 4th have split the Shards so much, hammering at the Gates of Heaven, spinning so many of the Realms willy nilly, that the Solar Shards are pretty much lost, or hoarded away.  The Sidereal Shards are split and damaged.  The Lunar Shards are splintered, given to power what are essentially jumped up Beastmen, to give them the power to transform, and only in a limited fashion. The Abyssals' powers are shrunk down, and they can only pass on a curse powered by their Shards to give their childer power, but still just a shade of what they had in the past.  The Dragon Kings are shattered, but finally able to become mortal in a sense.


I'm still working on a kind of time line, but the important thing to remember when trying to link the 2nd Age and the dawn of the 5th is that a LONG time has passed.  It's not a matter of digging in Egypt to find a hoard of Orichalcum and Jade Artifacts.  Ages have passed. Species have risen and fallen, the entire Earth and cosmos have been reshaped in the time between the Age of Sorrows and the WoD.  The entire Creation has been redefined a couple of times since the Primordials started the whole ball of wax.  That things are very different than the AoS is no surprise.
 
I don't like to compare Creation to Earth.  It doesn't make sense.  Creation, while a physical realm, does not follow the same rules as the Earth.  The Earth is ancient folks, four point five billion years and counting, and it has never been a flat plain surrounded by chaos.


I like to think that Pure Chaos is the Dreaming of the living Universe and that Creation is just one stable point of many within the infinite and eternal Dreaming of an infinite and eternal Universe.  The Primordials are the Spirits of living planets, who came together to form Creation as a place of relaxation.  When the Primordial War killed or imprisoned the Primordials, the worlds they repressented died or changed.


The WoD began when Creation destabilized and the inhabitants had to flee, to Earth, in order to survive.  The transition from the Dreaming to reality warped and shattered the Shards of the Exalted, ripped apart the souls of the Dragon Kings and, in general, caused a lot of havoc.
 
You're then rolling up on the idea from the WoD about the subjectiveness of reality. The idea that until someone put the idea out there of empty space, there was phlogiston between spaces.  That entire areas could be mapped away from the face of the Earth.  That the very history of the universe could be re-written, according to the rules that the consensus believed was right and true.


And the idea of how long a time period the 3rd Age could have been. When reality recongeals from the aftermath of the event that spurs on the 3rd Age, that could in fact take a long while.


It boils down to the WoD and the AoS being removed from each other not just by a huge expanse of time, but entirely different paradigms.  That is why I like the idea of the shift between the AoS and the 3rd Age as a whole paradigm shift, and again when the 4th Age is kicked over.  That shift in paradigm does rewrite the whole cloth of reality, even to the point of creating entire rafts of history, rewriting geography, even physics and how the celestial bodies move in oppostion and concordance.
 
Just a guess


The way I see it the list goes as such:


Solars------------>     Hunters and the new Mummies (3rd Edition)


    Hunters got the power increase, Mummies got the immortality.


Lunars----------->     Changing Breeds


    Everything went into the power levels.


Dragon kings---->     Mokole (Lunar Dragon King mix?)


    Everything went into the power levels.


Sidereals-------->     Mages


    I think they cause the shattering, since they have the most power, but are otherwise mortal.


Dragon Blooded->     Kui-Jinn


    They seem to have been cursed when the empress returned.  The empress wanted immortality and I believe the Ebon Shadow Dragon granted the entire race the gift of agelessness, but to survive, they had to feed off of the life force of others.


Abyssals--------->     Canaanites


    The way I see it, since Swan is Lilith's mate, he turns Abyssal, bringing down his entire circle (Cain killed his brother), then they had children (I believe the antideluvians were actually god blooded), but instead of having more children, they found that they could make progeny by the 'kiss', transfering a portion of their power to the newly embraced vampires, creating the clans.  However, I believe the Settites were the progeny of a child of another abyssal named Typhon Set (one of the abyssals' name is Typhon - see the templates in the core rule book, pp. 314).


So, whatcha think? :twisted:
 
if you wanted to use swan and lilith, swan would corrolate to adam as lilith was his frist whife in biblical terms, so swans son would be the one to walk the path of darkness   :P


as for the Mummy thing, mummys are Creations, they are dead bodys that are being skin rode with a spell holding it all together for the most part, a mage with high enough levels in sprit and life could acomplish the same thing (arch-mage level of power that is....) so mummys wouldnt corrolate to a exalted type i wouldnt think, unless you counted nemmssarys...
 
Re: Just a guess


Of course I've seen passages where WW clearly states there is no linkage between the 2nd and 5th ages of man. There is meant to be no reason that lunars become changing breeds and solars don't become hunters and such. But that doesn't mean everyperson who has played both systems can't put it together themselves. and as such my group of players have come up with pretty much what Ker'ion said before. Except the Abyssal thing is slightly different.

Abyssals--------->     Canaanites


    The way I see it, since Swan is Lilith's mate, he turns Abyssal, bringing down his entire circle (Cain killed his brother), then they had children (I believe the antideluvians were actually god blooded), but instead of having more children, they found that they could make progeny by the 'kiss', transfering a portion of their power to the newly embraced vampires, creating the clans.  However, I believe the Settites were the progeny of a child of another abyssal named Typhon Set (one of the abyssals' name is Typhon - see the templates in the core rule book, pp. 314).
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My group seems to think that Swan's soul shard does fall into the wrong hands and he becoms an abyssal. He again meets up with Lillith and they have lots of little god-blooded babies. She then teaches him how to make them more powerful and turn them all into vampires. Roughly there is is in a nutshell.


As for the ages, in the KOE book, it goes over the various ages, and when I read them not too long ago it seems pretty much like how it's going in Exalted.

  • Age of Heaven: The First Age of the Great Cycle; a time before time, when all things were one.
  • Age of Beauty: The Second Age of the Great Cycle, when the middle kingdom and spirit courts were still close together.
  • Age of Legends: The Third Age of the Great Cycle; the mythical prehistory of the middle kingdom, when the Kuei-jin walked among and ruled humanity as benevolent spirits.
  • Age of Beutiful Sadness: The Fourth Age of the Great Cycle, herald by the Kuei-jin's forsaking of their heavenly duties. Human history begins durring this period, and Kuei-jin trace their vulnerability to sunlight at this time (the Chou Dynasty, specifically.)
  • Age of Darkess: The Fifth Age of the Great Cycle; the time period extending roughly from first contact with the West to the present nights.
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Let's try this with a little coherency...


Solars:  They become the Hunters; split Shards tossed about in a frenzy, taking potential Solars and turning them into something as close as possible.


Abyssals:  Vampires.  Theyir shards, slowly cracking and splitting, have become like an infection.


Lunars:  The changing breeds, including the Mokole.  The tattooing process became far too efficient, and began restricting the Lunars to a very small amount of shapes.


Dragon Kings:  They become immaterial, moving into what will become the Umbra and joining the spirit courts as the great and powerful Wani, dragon gods of the Nagah and Mokole.


Dragon-Blooded:  Cursed by their own blasphemy in accepting the call of the Empress from Hell, the Terrestrial Exalted become the Kuei-Jin.  The Ten Thousand Immortals transforming into the Ten Thousand Demons.  Because they have always been passed by blood, this possibility is sundered, but they are very powerful, because they have no shards that need to be "split."


Sidereals:  Their shattered shards become Avatars, conscious spiritual beings that infuse with mortal souls to help change reality, and break the rules.


Ghosts:  Uh... wraiths.  Duh.


I used to have something that changed into Demon: The Fallen.  I'll have to look through my notes.


As for Mummies... they could be any amount of things.
 
I kind of like the idea of Mummies being a creation of the newer Ages.


Demons...I think that pieces of Primordials/Yozi that are a bit transformed by the changing of the Ages, remembering, but not quite, or perhaps remembering one interpretation of the events of their Fall, and perhaps serving their dark masters in this fashion, a bit confused, but earnest.


I prefer to think of the Mokole as the DK's--if only because their Memisis remembers the grand old days of the dinosaurs.  Could be Lunars, but I like to have them be a bit older than the other Changing Breeds.  And with their problem with gold and not silver...it makes some sense--I know, the Ravens have that as well, but if you think of birds as decendants of reptiles, or accept their story of the being wiseasses one time too many, either way, it works for their getting the gold stakes through the heart by slivers of pissed off Solars...
 
I agree with Jakk, Dragon Kings are so Mokole. Especailly with their sensitivity to Gold. The raven changing breeds have it too, but I heard from somewhere that their sensitivity came straight from Gaia... can't recall where I heard that.


Since Demon the Fallen are suppose to be the first sent to hell and returned I think it's works best with them being the Yozi.
 
remember the exalted storyteller companion.


"ONE of the possible endings of the current series of events is that of the creation of the world of darkness"


but theirs many others such as the creation of a necrompolis ruled over by the deathlords, all dissolving into the chaos of the fairfolk, or the solars finally reclaiming their birthright and rebuilding a peaceful and just realm.
 
The folks at WW are big into options.


Look at the series of books for the End of the WoD--lots and lots of options.  That the WoD is the result of AoS is one idea.  It's one that I like but that's more for me as an ST than having anything to do with actual gameplay.  That means no First Age Artifacts are going to hanging around the WoD--not unless they're off in a pocket of reality well and away from the world, either mapped off by the Technocracy, or just removed a long time ago by critters who were in the know.  


And without an Exalted critter to attune to them, without anything left in the Tellurian with the ability to use them, they are just so much shiny stuff.  Mysteries.  Wonders. But pretty much useless.  


Now then, if you could figure a way to reunite the slivers of Shards back to their original power...the question is, how many critters would try and stop you?  Vampires melded together to form one super Vampire?  Garou, Magi, and damn near every other Awakened critter would be out in force.


A Garou with the idea of melding an entire Tribe into an amalgam, or even an entire breed?  I'm more partial to an entire race of shapechangers that would have to meld to get back to their root as a single Lunar, and that means all the souls, not just the living ones.  It would mean a lot of resistance, from the critters being melded.  Instant super villain time.


A Mage with the same idea--boy would there be a shake up in both the Traditions and the Technocracy as Avatars are stolen and melded--so much potential for wrong and horrible abuse of power that it would make a neat story arc, but at its heart, it would have to be through a veil of deep misunderstanding, both by the folks who would rise to oppose what they would see as a mis-appropriation of Avatars, and the bastiche who would be compacting them onto their own.


KOE would have the least easy time, having sold their black souls and cursed for their terminity.


Hunters are so shattered, and so lost, that it would take a very high power to heal them.  I rather like the idea that the Great Curse is still affecting them, even more pronounced in their new form.  If you could form a Shard in invest in a mortal again... the effect of the Curse could be devastating--perhaps having grown in power for all the time its been in effect.  And a Hunter who had access to some device to find and graft power to themselves--they would be seen as having fallen to the siren song of Big Ebbil, and wind up being hunted down themselves.


Because no one remembers the AoS.  No one knows how it all started, and so many creation myths flying around, so many origins mangled and mixed together, the one that comes closest to the real origin that the ST chooses to roll with, is only going to be muddled and opposed by every other one, and that could lead to some fun for players, who might be in on the joke, but their characters would still be horrified by the process.
 
StarHawk said:
I agree with Jakk, Dragon Kings are so Mokole. Especailly with their sensitivity to Gold. The raven changing breeds have it too, but I heard from somewhere that their sensitivity came straight from Gaia... can't recall where I heard that.
Since Demon the Fallen are suppose to be the first sent to hell and returned I think it's works best with them being the Yozi.
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Corax are sensitive to gold because their patron incarna isn't Luna, but Helios.  That's the only reason.
 
Demon was just a bit late into the mix.  There just wasn't a lot of time to get cross over bits like the Sam Haight series into the mix.  Just enough time to get some neat ideas, and then give folks a grand send-off by giving them the Apocolypse...
 
If I'm not wrong' date=' Demon the fallen was completely outside of WoD.[/quote']
Not quite, but it was outside the Exalted/WoD links, with the exception of a freelances slipping the Soulmirror in the Demon PG
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Personally, I did not like Demon.  I thought that it violated the premise of WoD, the supernatural horrors can appear like they really are.
 
There's also the elemental powers of the Kuei-jin or there was before they got so corrupted and became Blood, Bone, etc. The Ten Thousand bit fits as well.
 
Just my 2 cents, but here is my opinion on the matter:


Dragon Kings are NOT mokoles.


In KOE, p. 185:


Certain Shen speak of the heavenly realms, high in the spiritual firmament above Yin and Yang. If they exist at all, the domains of the August Personnage - and it's minions, the Dragon Kings - have completely separated from the rest of creation.


So, my question is Who is the August Personnage ?


The heavenly realms certainly looks like Yu-Shan, and it is quite possible that the dragon kings took refuge there, as many Dragon Kings did at the times of the Usurpation.


Also, in the KOE lexicon I found this (was looking at it just this morning :P )


August Personnage of Jade: In Keui-Jin myth, the current, though inactive, ruler of Heaven. When the sixth age arrives, the personnage will step down, to be replaced by the demon emperor.


Ebon Dragon: Hun Dun, the first lord of the dead. Representative of the Yin some vampires believe that the ebon dragon has been deposed and eaten by the Jade Emperor; others believe that the Jade Emperor is one of the Dragon's avatar (Note: Who is the Jade Emperor ?)


Scarlet Queen: The legendary female progenitor of the Kuei-Jin. Oddly enought representative of Yang (traditionally a masculine force). A few scholars not her similarities to the kindred's Lilith.


Yama Kings: Various malignant spirit beings predating the coming of the Jade Emperor. The Yama kings are powerful demonic spirits who hold territories in the outer reaches of the Yin and Yang world. Yama kings of Yang are known as banes in the west, while those of Yin are termed "malfeans" by the western ghosts.


Also, it is stated somewhere that many believe there are either 7, 9, 10 12 Yama Kings.


It is written that the Scarlet Queen first provided life to men and women and gave birth to the islands that compose Japan. (p.42)


And that the Ebon Dragon is the deposed judge of the underworld to whom the humans created by Na Kua (the Scarlet Queen) went when they died.


Kuei-Jin see themselves as the children of the Dragon and th Queen.


Where does it take us exactly ? I don't know :)
 
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