Do You Focus on Plot or Characters in a Roleplay?

[fluticasone]

It's characters for me personally; an engaging cast can make lackluster storylines interesting (I'd like to point to Tales of Zestiria, whose strong character roster carries through its sometimes flat storytelling). If I like the characters, I become invested in the plot. That's all there is to it. No matter how shit the plot is, if you have writers who can bring out the best in their characters, you'll be dragged along.


I was once in a roleplay that was essentially nothing more than a high school roleplay with its students being dead people. That's all the plot there was. Yet we managed to keep it alive for more than a year - and this wasn't one of those one-liner rp's; the average was at least 300 words. All we were doing was exploring character relationships, doing occasional special events and reveal character pasts.

 

[Shin Positron Laser]

When creating an RP I focus more on plot rather than character development. It has been my experience that when a GM focuses their attention on their character first, that character tends to become the hero or the main or focus of the entire story they are building as plot. If that is what one if going for than it works well. When their character takes a step back and the GM focuses on plot, while their character might not see so much development of changes or progress compared to the other players, their character becomes one to move plot along or progress the storyline.


There are those odd times when an RP lasts long enough, or is broken up into chapters of sorts, where we can enjoy both plot and character development in balance.

 

[Tedronai]

When creating an RP I focus more on plot rather than character development. It has been my experience that when a GM focuses their attention on their character first, that character tends to become the hero or the main or focus of the entire story they are building as plot.

That's a fair point and I suppose one of the big differences between books and RPs. If you're writing a novel you don't have to share the limelight.


Playing devil's advocate, do you think it matters? I read an interview with Tom Hiddleston about his portrayal of Loki and how he made the villain more likeable than many of the heroes in the MCU. His reply was (paraphrased) we're all heroes in our own mind.


I have tried to write each of my characters with this in mind since I read this, and (in my opinion at least) its given more substance to my villains, hell even the most minor characters want something for themselves so I try and figure out what that is rather than making them cardboard plot points that exist purely to give/do something to/against the protagonist.

 

[welian]

It has been my experience that when a GM focuses their attention on their character first, that character tends to become the hero or the main or focus of the entire story they are building as plot.

Bingo.


When I make an RP, I focus on plot. My players will take care of characters. Sure, I have some basic archetypes in mind, and usually I'll ask them to fulfill specific roles relevant to the story (such as, this is a school RP so you'll need to be either a student or a teacher, or this is an adventure RP so you'll need to be an explorer of some sort), but it's not my job to populate the world. It's your job.

 

[Shin Positron Laser]

@welian


@Tedronai


I was just re-reading the tutorials section on GM's. It was very insightful.


As far as characters go I leave my character to be sort of old man exposition. See's all, knows all and describes situations almost from the POV of an author. My narrative is written always third person. A good way of avoiding your character becoming the focus of attention is to see what other players are planning for their character and try and work that into the plot somehow.

 

[dva]

every game plan i've had for an rp is adaptable; i always leave room for adjustment with the characters that may be submitted! i think that the plot will shape the characters and the characters will change the plot. of course i don't let the rp'ers go wild, but i do loosen the reins so that they can help me develop the story i have in mind. it helps keep the rp'ers interested - makes them feel essential ! which is amazing to feel in an rp.

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

When I'm in an RP, and the majority of the group are trying to move a good plot along as we dev our characters, and players keep stalling, tossing random wrenches in the plot, or fixating every post on their character while lightly addressing the plot progress in baby steps, it's not only annoying and brushes against attention seeking, but it's not fun... I don't care how compelling your character is or you think it is, the plot is what's compelling, what's taking us all there.


Too many role players have no idea how to tell a good story. A good story may vary, but there are clear borders between good and bad. Three sheets to the wind, "We'll work it out as we go," style development more often than not takes a detrimental turn. Not that where is went is necessarily bad, but compared to where is could have gone, it's lacking.


There are unwritten rules to story telling as an entity. Plot is the foundation. You can either wing it and have fun being selfish and "dev your CS the way you want" or tell an extremely well engineered, well told story using those characters as you dev them. Really good stories rarely happen on a whim. They require some premeditation.


People take issue with structure, not considering all the ways "this" could "happen next". A good writer can be given loose structure, and still be spontaneous, still enjoy the RP as if it was free-form.


You cannot separate plot from character, but the plot defines the characters. There's no simpler way to put it.

 

[DarkLightHitomi]

On the contrary, not every player has "good story" as a goal.
 


What a player is looking for in the game will determine many things, including the importance of plot and characters. The only debatable thing is whether either character, preplanned plot, or both are completely essential for all roleplays.


I would say "neither is essential to all playstyles" myself by the way. I've seen sucessful games where the characters were nothing more than gimmicks, flat and lifeless, and I've run lots of games with zero preplanned plot (since me having preplanned plot is a very rare thing).

 

[constellation]

i focus on the plot first, but the characters are definitely major to how the roleplay goes.


especially how the roleplayer writes them out. the character's emotions, triumphs, goals, fails, etc.


i tend to choose characters that have potential though, lmao.


my roleplays are never first come, first serve.

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

On the contrary, not every player has "good story" as a goal.
 


What a player is looking for in the game will determine many things, including the importance of plot and characters. The only debatable thing is whether either character, preplanned plot, or both are completely essential for all roleplays.


I would say "neither is essential to all playstyles" myself by the way. I've seen sucessful games where the characters were nothing more than gimmicks, flat and lifeless, and I've run lots of games with zero preplanned plot (since me having preplanned plot is a very rare thing).

I'm well aware that there are people out there who only care about character dev. They are the people who are blacklisted from my RPs. lol

 

[DarkLightHitomi]

I would say, that you can have more than simple character dev without preplanning plot.


I am curious why you would blacklist such players though since having one or two in a group can really add alot to character interactions and party relations, drawing the characters into the story (rather than the characters simply being there for the story to happen upon).


Isn't having some measure of character a great addition to the story? (though thinking about it, I could see how that might make it harder to railroad them, but I wouldn't consider thar bad myself)


Or am I just missing what you mean?

 

[Tedronai]

You cannot separate plot from character, but the plot defines the characters. There's no simpler way to put it.

Yes, but if they can't be separated then surely characters can just as easily define a plot.


How many stories could be summed up as this character's coming of age story, that character's experiences of war, another character's quest for justice? These are generic plots that have been written, filmed or told time and again, sometimes well, sometimes badly, but so often the difference is how engaging the protagonist, antagonist, and supporting cast are.


I understand your comments that some people will demand you pay attention to their character, and agree that's annoying. It shows they aren't interested in writing a collaborative work, they're just seeking attention, but is it really any different from insisting that people observe a plot that we might find engaging? Similarly, if we're not going to be open to incorporating a twist that another's character (however irritating) throws into the story then why write collaboratively?

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Focusing on character without regard for the plot is a disaster waiting to happen. While it's true a plot without good characters lacks the human element, a character without a story or some direction has no conflict. These two facets of story telling are two sides of the same coin. If you lack either one, then the entire house of card crumbles. It's like going to school and saying you only care about tests,but 35 percent of your grade comes from in class assignments. Or it's like taking care of your child,but not giving their emotions any attention as long as they're fed with a roof over their heads. 


In essence if you have a good character, but its backstory are alien to the rp story line, then it's just a one shot concept. If you have a story without the characters, then it's a lifeless waste land that's mainly concept art and visualization, more than anything. Don't forgo story telling just because we're all pretend actors on rpnation. Our script is just as important as character interactions.

 

[DarkLightHitomi]

"without regard for the plot"


How does this require preplanning?


If you set up a villain expecting the players to fight her, but they end up joining her instead to help take over the world, how is that any less a fun plot just because you didn't plan it ahead of time?


No matter what happens, there will be a plot after the fact, since a plot is a sequence of events, whatever the characters do actually generates a plot, there is a polt of what the pcs did, just like there is a plot to what you did last year.


There are only three questions about plot,


whether the plot is planned out ahead of time or not,


whether the plot is interesting to the players/gm,


whether the plot is/was fun to play.


Lacking a plan does not mean the events will be uninteresting, nor does it mean a lack of fun.


I achieve this by making interesting situations, seeing what the pcs do, then making interesting responses.

 

[call me rae]

"without regard for the plot"


How does this require preplanning?


If you set up a villain expecting the players to fight her, but they end up joining her instead to help take over the world, how is that any less a fun plot just because you didn't plan it ahead of time?


No matter what happens, there will be a plot after the fact, since a plot is a sequence of events, whatever the characters do actually generates a plot, there is a polt of what the pcs did, just like there is a plot to what you did last year.


There are only three questions about plot,


whether the plot is planned out ahead of time or not,


whether the plot is interesting to the players/gm,


whether the plot is/was fun to play.


Lacking a plan does not mean the events will be uninteresting, nor does it mean a lack of fun.


I achieve this by making interesting situations, seeing what the pcs do, then making interesting responses.

And that's valid but only if everyone is equally motivated. The same way a plot is only stifling is people don't actually want some direction.


Thats why I went the middle ground because - "they're both equally important" is applicable in more differing scenarios than it's one or the other.


because if you start with basic character and basic plot you'll get a more engaged response from both sides of the equation because all the types of people with all the styles and playing in all the settings get something out of it.


its not - well this only works if your good at character improv. Or this only works if you like to follow a structured plot. Or this only works if you work well with others.


if you keep it basic in both cases and give both sides an equal foundation your letting your partners focus on the sections they want to focus on and doing the same thing yourself.


granted this works best in 1x1sbut I think it would be helpful in groups too if paired with some ironclad rules.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

"without regard for the plot"


How does this require preplanning?


If you set up a villain expecting the players to fight her, but they end up joining her instead to help take over the world, how is that any less a fun plot just because you didn't plan it ahead of time?


No matter what happens, there will be a plot after the fact, since a plot is a sequence of events, whatever the characters do actually generates a plot, there is a polt of what the pcs did, just like there is a plot to what you did last year.


There are only three questions about plot,


whether the plot is planned out ahead of time or not,


whether the plot is interesting to the players/gm,


whether the plot is/was fun to play.


Lacking a plan does not mean the events will be uninteresting, nor does it mean a lack of fun.


I achieve this by making interesting situations, seeing what the pcs do, then making interesting responses.

Been in many a roleplay, but my favorite was a journey into the unknown to expand territory for a country. It was a nice little experience, taking up the basic idea of 4 or 5 player characters with different motivations, venturing into the unknown. The problems cropped up when it got bogged down by, what do we actually do syndrome? It lasted for a month or two, which is actually pretty decent by my standards,but again, no plot with 4 or 5 characters doing nothing but fighting took its toll on the direction. In a perfect rp scenario you can always just rely on the randoms to get together and make something happen,but time and time again, it's not something that will last without a story.


concrete details


a particular goal made in the interest check or in the heat of things


actual decisions being made that affect everyone in the rp


I'm not saying there should be a script,but rather there should be quite a lot of thought into the narrative of the story. Especially if you want it to last beyond the background of your character post.

 

[ApfelSeine]

Been in many a roleplay, but my favorite was a journey into the unknown to expand territory for a country. It was a nice little experience, taking up the basic idea of 4 or 5 player characters with different motivations, venturing into the unknown. The problems cropped up when it got bogged down by, what do we actually do syndrome? It lasted for a month or two, which is actually pretty decent by my standards,but again, no plot with 4 or 5 characters doing nothing but fighting took its toll on the direction. In a perfect rp scenario you can always just rely on the randoms to get together and make something happen,but time and time again, it's not something that will last without a story.


concrete details


a particular goal made in the interest check or in the heat of things


actual decisions being made that affect everyone in the rp


I'm not saying there should be a script,but rather there should be quite a lot of thought into the narrative of the story. Especially if you want it to last beyond the background of your character post.

I'd argue that if every character wants a different thing, and no plot was laid out ahead of time, then that's example of not much thought being put into the characters or the plot. Constructing a character is more than giving them a defined goal. A personal end goal for a character is more useful in a self written work than a collaborative story (though of course it can have it's uses of planned out thoughtfully). If characters have no personal goal to start out with, or if characters are constructed by the players to be after separate things, then the problem of being unable to decide on the direction goes away.


I'm one to put much more thought into my characters than the plot. I'll usually put some thought into the plot, but I leave it very free to go in whichever direction the players want it to. When I join other people's roleplays with no defined plotline, I generally read the other character's and construct one who is different but compatible. Very rarely will I give them a defined life goal, but instead I'll adapt the character's priorities to give them motivation to join in whatever is happening. It's not my character's story, so they don't need to have an end goal in mind. Not everyone does (personally, the classes thing Z I've got to an end goal myself is "don't fail at everything and try to be an actual adult in the future" Nothing very concrete, which makes it flexible) The character's goal can simply adapt to fit with the will of the group, provided that it is left semi undefined before the beginning.


I think essentially, both plot and character are important in rp, but there's nothing wrong with prioritizing one or the other. Prioritizing plot ensures structure and keeps the direction focused, though it does risk railroading players if the individual characters aren't taken into account at all. Prioritizing characters has the benefit of leaving things fluid and being more collaborative, which allows players themselves to be more creative. Though if no thought is put into the plot at all, if characters happen to not be made compatible then it can be difficult to get the rp focused. A GM who prioritizes one or the other should take heed that they can't ignore the other element. If plot focused ones pay careful attention to the characters, they can adapt the story to suit them better. If a character focused GM takes time to set up a defined goal, they can give players something to redirect towards if they ever get sidetracked. All in all, it's mostly down to management skills.


Some people like to have characters change to suit the plot, and that can work quite well. Others like to focus on characters and have the plot change to suit them, and that's okay. My personal style is to have a loosely defined plot, and adapt it so that external events are specifically crafted to bring characters together and make them collaborate. I'm sure that can also be done in a less specifically targeted way and still be effective. I've seen both styles run long and successful games, and I've seen both die out of the starting gate. Most important is any game is being able to connect with your players and know what they need. Otherwise, success will be down to whether you get the right people for it or not.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

I'd argue that if every character wants a different thing, and no plot was laid out ahead of time, then that's example of not much thought being put into the characters or the plot. Constructing a character is more than giving them a defined goal. A personal end goal for a character is more useful in a self written work than a collaborative story (though of course it can have it's uses of planned out thoughtfully). If characters have no personal goal to start out with, or if characters are constructed by the players to be after separate things, then the problem of being unable to decide on the direction goes away.


I'm one to put much more thought into my characters than the plot. I'll usually put some thought into the plot, but I leave it very free to go in whichever direction the players want it to. When I join other people's roleplays with no defined plotline, I generally read the other character's and construct one who is different but compatible. Very rarely will I give them a defined life goal, but instead I'll adapt the character's priorities to give them motivation to join in whatever is happening. It's not my character's story, so they don't need to have an end goal in mind. Not everyone does (personally, the classes thing Z I've got to an end goal myself is "don't fail at everything and try to be an actual adult in the future" Nothing very concrete, which makes it flexible) The character's goal can simply adapt to fit with the will of the group, provided that it is left semi undefined before the beginning.


I think essentially, both plot and character are important in rp, but there's nothing wrong with prioritizing one or the other. Prioritizing plot ensures structure and keeps the direction focused, though it does risk railroading players if the individual characters aren't taken into account at all. Prioritizing characters has the benefit of leaving things fluid and being more collaborative, which allows players themselves to be more creative. Though if no thought is put into the plot at all, if characters happen to not be made compatible then it can be difficult to get the rp focused. A GM who prioritizes one or the other should take heed that they can't ignore the other element. If plot focused ones pay careful attention to the characters, they can adapt the story to suit them better. If a character focused GM takes time to set up a defined goal, they can give players something to redirect towards if they ever get sidetracked. All in all, it's mostly down to management skills.


Some people like to have characters change to suit the plot, and that can work quite well. Others like to focus on characters and have the plot change to suit them, and that's okay. My personal style is to have a loosely defined plot, and adapt it so that external events are specifically crafted to bring characters together and make them collaborate. I'm sure that can also be done in a less specifically targeted way and still be effective. I've seen both styles run long and successful games, and I've seen both die out of the starting gate. Most important is any game is being able to connect with your players and know what they need. Otherwise, success will be down to whether you get the right people for it or not.

I'm also speaking from a logistical standpoint as well. Having no direction also is good for a writer in a self written work as well, since you can take an open minded character on an open ended journey. However when you have multiple people with multiple open ended directions, it becomes an issue. Add to the fact that while some people might thrive in that type of environment in the long term, it doesn't really bode well for a lot of people if they're not motivated. If we're going to be talking in generalities, then I'd say the plot really does have equal significance. Not going to reiterate my points though lol, as people then go and make a zombie rp and wonder why it crumbles after a page or two.


second paragraph


Context is everything, that much is a certainty. I just made an open ended character who is going on a journey of self discovery, only to find out that in the grand scheme of things, a disaster is about to break loose. Which is fine, open ended in fine. But I'm addressing the people who don't give the plot the regard it deserves in relation to characters. I'm one to agree that after the initial set up, there shouldn't be too strict of a hand when it comes to what happens in a roleplay, so that it doesn't kill the decision making of the players. But I also am one to not have real concrete ideas for when things get stuck or rather, if there's an important narrative that needs to be gm'd. The last part is more about taste than anything.


Third:


Then we're basically in agreement, the way people decide on how to prioritze is up to them. I'm merely speaking to those who don't give plot any thought. We're talking ooc talks about current events and where to go next. Talking pm'ing eachother with new ideas or stuff regarding existing ideas. 

 

[M.J. Saulnier]

Yes, but if they can't be separated then surely characters can just as easily define a plot.


How many stories could be summed up as this character's coming of age story, that character's experiences of war, another character's quest for justice? These are generic plots that have been written, filmed or told time and again, sometimes well, sometimes badly, but so often the difference is how engaging the protagonist, antagonist, and supporting cast are.


I understand your comments that some people will demand you pay attention to their character, and agree that's annoying. It shows they aren't interested in writing a collaborative work, they're just seeking attention, but is it really any different from insisting that people observe a plot that we might find engaging? Similarly, if we're not going to be open to incorporating a twist that another's character (however irritating) throws into the story then why write collaboratively?

It sort of goes both ways, that's common sense. But in story telling (and that's what any RP is, no matter how you break it down) the plot is your anchor. Characters should work within the plot while of course changing and impacting it. That's common sense too. The issue is writers who could really care less about the RP, only their character and what happens to them, how they impact the plot. Or when plots derail because a writer got this GREAT idea for their character and just... went with it. There's a level of creative responsibility, as well as respect for the RP, and the others involved that must be upheld if you wish to be counted among the great role players, regardless of skill level. Writing is just one half of it.


It comes down to balance. You must juggle plot with characters, unless you're doing some form of artsy character based RP where the plot is loose, and the people involved just want to dev characters.


That to me works best in 1x1 or solo projects. Not in a group. I prefer plot driven in groups because I let the group discuss and develop said plot.


When I have a super detailed, highly complex creature I write it solo, because that sort of thing doesn't have a ton of room to stray from the concept without losing part of itself in that process, so it's not as good for group or 1x1. Other than that, group projects work best when a good plot is established. It gives the numerous involved characters a basis (not a script, let's not exaggerate it using extremes) to keep the story grounded a little bit at least.


I've read more RPs than I've been in, and I've created more than I've participated in. In my experience you need a good balance to create a good RP in a general sense, given all of this is subjective.