CM-Colorless
New Member
Do Americans exist?
It might sound like a stupid question but hear me out. Ask yourself, what is an American?
Is it a citizen of the united states? I think this would be the most common reply to that question but we know that in the past and into today there are people who attain citizenship who use it to commit terrorist acts or to spy on our government or citizens or what have you or to otherwise undermine the American nation. Would we call these people Americans? Of course not their loyalties lie outside of America and they do not consider themselves Americans, so citizenship can't make somebody an American.
But even more than that, citizenship can't be our definition of an American because citizenship ends where the government does, if the government collapses there are no more citizens of that government. Look at the short lived Rhodesia which became modern Zimbabwe, there are no more Rhodesian citizens, they are citizens of Zimbabwe and anyone who follows the consequences of that issue those whites in Zimbabwe are largely considered in a cultural sense Rhodesians not Zimbabweans, save where legal definitions are concerned.
Look also in the case of Germany and it's three Reich's, from Holy Roman Empire to the German Empire to the Nazi Reich, "Germans" are something separate from the form their government took throughout history. People prescribe their nations they do not describe them. That is to put it another way, France is where the French live, the French don't live in France. This why governments can collapse and entire maps redrawn without the "French" or "Germans" or "English" or whatever disappearing even if their nation-state does. The Irish did not stop or start being Irish when Great Britain took over their island or allowed for Ireland to become a sovereign nation, they were Irish in spite of their federal governments not because of them.
So citizenship can't define a people.
Okay so what do other people groups have? Shared history! After all the Angles and the Jutes and the Saxons are all different historic ethnic groups but through shared history they merged into the Anglo-Saxons who founded England (or Angleland). But modern Americans don't have a shared history with one another. The first Americans were all of Anglo-Saxon, Dutch and Scottish (and a minority German) heritage, they all shared their own common history of either coming to America for capitalist gain or to escape religious persecutions in Europe. So while that may be true of the founding population of the nation black Americans have a very different history, they were brought here not because of their desire for freedom or to make something better for themselves but in bondage and to do other men's labor. Black Americans do not share in that heritage as the founders.
And before anyone thinks I've made this a white black issue the same is true for Americans whose ancestors were Irish or Italian or Polish or the latter wave of Germans, their history in America is very, very, different from Anglo-Americans, coming decades if not a century (or even centuries if their ethnic group arrived largely post 1981) after the nation was already founded and established.
If blacks and whites (of all ethnic origin) and Hispanics are all Americans than shared history cannot be what defines who is and who is not American.
And to that effect obviously race doesn't define who is and who is not American.
Is it shared language perhaps? Well there is no American language like there is a German or Spanish language. You could argue English is our unifying language but Spanish is becoming more and more widespread and English isn't a uniquely American language it just identifies us in the Anglosphere portion of the world alongside with Canadians and Australians who are not Americans.
Shared religious tradition? We are a majority christian nation but not exclusively and even back to the founding of the nation there were competing and very different sects that existed together, that can't be it.
Ideological similarity? Yeah, I don't think anybody will pretend there is any semblance of ideological unity between Americans.
Unified belief in an economic policy? See above.
Ah! I have it, cultural unity.... except well when there isn't a secession crisis going on because people don't want to be in the same nation as each other like in 1812 (30 years after the constitution was ratified and centered around New-England) or 1830 (20 years later with the abolitionists) 1861 (30 years after that, aka the civil war) and after that I grant it settled down for about a century until the idea of Aztlan and chicano nationalist movement started popping up in the 60's alongside Black seperatist movements which most famously men like Malcolm X associated himself with and 40 years later there are again secessionist thoughts and leanings growing in popularity amongst American conservatives.
Just, what is an American? There is no shared culture, no shared ideology, no shared history, not even a shared identity as Americans and the only shared thing between us is citizenship which I already laid out reasons why citizenship can't define a people group....
Can anyone say that such a thing as an American even exists?
It might sound like a stupid question but hear me out. Ask yourself, what is an American?
Is it a citizen of the united states? I think this would be the most common reply to that question but we know that in the past and into today there are people who attain citizenship who use it to commit terrorist acts or to spy on our government or citizens or what have you or to otherwise undermine the American nation. Would we call these people Americans? Of course not their loyalties lie outside of America and they do not consider themselves Americans, so citizenship can't make somebody an American.
But even more than that, citizenship can't be our definition of an American because citizenship ends where the government does, if the government collapses there are no more citizens of that government. Look at the short lived Rhodesia which became modern Zimbabwe, there are no more Rhodesian citizens, they are citizens of Zimbabwe and anyone who follows the consequences of that issue those whites in Zimbabwe are largely considered in a cultural sense Rhodesians not Zimbabweans, save where legal definitions are concerned.
Look also in the case of Germany and it's three Reich's, from Holy Roman Empire to the German Empire to the Nazi Reich, "Germans" are something separate from the form their government took throughout history. People prescribe their nations they do not describe them. That is to put it another way, France is where the French live, the French don't live in France. This why governments can collapse and entire maps redrawn without the "French" or "Germans" or "English" or whatever disappearing even if their nation-state does. The Irish did not stop or start being Irish when Great Britain took over their island or allowed for Ireland to become a sovereign nation, they were Irish in spite of their federal governments not because of them.
So citizenship can't define a people.
Okay so what do other people groups have? Shared history! After all the Angles and the Jutes and the Saxons are all different historic ethnic groups but through shared history they merged into the Anglo-Saxons who founded England (or Angleland). But modern Americans don't have a shared history with one another. The first Americans were all of Anglo-Saxon, Dutch and Scottish (and a minority German) heritage, they all shared their own common history of either coming to America for capitalist gain or to escape religious persecutions in Europe. So while that may be true of the founding population of the nation black Americans have a very different history, they were brought here not because of their desire for freedom or to make something better for themselves but in bondage and to do other men's labor. Black Americans do not share in that heritage as the founders.
And before anyone thinks I've made this a white black issue the same is true for Americans whose ancestors were Irish or Italian or Polish or the latter wave of Germans, their history in America is very, very, different from Anglo-Americans, coming decades if not a century (or even centuries if their ethnic group arrived largely post 1981) after the nation was already founded and established.
If blacks and whites (of all ethnic origin) and Hispanics are all Americans than shared history cannot be what defines who is and who is not American.
And to that effect obviously race doesn't define who is and who is not American.
Is it shared language perhaps? Well there is no American language like there is a German or Spanish language. You could argue English is our unifying language but Spanish is becoming more and more widespread and English isn't a uniquely American language it just identifies us in the Anglosphere portion of the world alongside with Canadians and Australians who are not Americans.
Shared religious tradition? We are a majority christian nation but not exclusively and even back to the founding of the nation there were competing and very different sects that existed together, that can't be it.
Ideological similarity? Yeah, I don't think anybody will pretend there is any semblance of ideological unity between Americans.
Unified belief in an economic policy? See above.
Ah! I have it, cultural unity.... except well when there isn't a secession crisis going on because people don't want to be in the same nation as each other like in 1812 (30 years after the constitution was ratified and centered around New-England) or 1830 (20 years later with the abolitionists) 1861 (30 years after that, aka the civil war) and after that I grant it settled down for about a century until the idea of Aztlan and chicano nationalist movement started popping up in the 60's alongside Black seperatist movements which most famously men like Malcolm X associated himself with and 40 years later there are again secessionist thoughts and leanings growing in popularity amongst American conservatives.
Just, what is an American? There is no shared culture, no shared ideology, no shared history, not even a shared identity as Americans and the only shared thing between us is citizenship which I already laid out reasons why citizenship can't define a people group....
Can anyone say that such a thing as an American even exists?
