Death and how it affects roleplay.

[Dice]

One thing that bugs me about rp sites like this is the type of rp on it. I'm more for a detailed rp and occasionally the fun one, but I like my rp to be gritty. So I've noticed that Death never occurs. If your rp is in a situation where you're under constant threat from something, why isn't death present?


Well I think I have two ideas on why:


One. The players won't to live out their story and in it is the only happy ending for them. Death is not an option nor occurs to them it can happen.


Two. Rp startes, the ones who make the thread. They don't take charge, they let people go off on their own little adventure and they just win at everything. I think an rp maker needs to be in more commmand and really help guide the rp, if death comes to some characters cause their idiots, the creator should kill them. Besides they don't have to deal with a players anger about it, but I think they should be allowed to complain if it was unreasonable.


What do you guys think about death in rp?

 

[GoodJobDino]

I agree. It hasn't happened here yet, because I haven't been a member long. But I commonly like to let my characters die or become somehow forever scathed/handicapped. I am fortune at the moment, to be in an rp where traps and the real threat of death does loom. Which I find to be an entirely positive thing.


I think having to keep that in mind, elevates detailed roleplays. You think more about how you move and get a sense of your surroundings. So I am all for it.


I won't pretend I went easily into the deaths arms though. I happened to join an rp where at the beginning the gm said, "you could die buddy" but I didn't really believe her, and liked the story. Lo and behold, 10 or so pages later I was impaled for making a stupid mistake. It was rough, but I ultimately came around to liking it.

 

[Coward]

I don't think it's really a mystery, is it? How many novels and TV shows do you know where the main character dies halfway through?


In RP the PCs are the main characters, and having them die by Kobold 46's hand isn't really that fun or conducive to interesting plots in freeform. People don't play freeform for a tactical challenge, they play it for stories.


In dice games it makes more sense, but even then most GMs will give a secret helping hand to the characters on the brink.


The only reason I would kill a character is if their arc is over and they'd serve the plot better by dying.

 

[Donder172]

There is also a third one for some people, getting attached to those characters...

 

[QuestingBeast]

Dice games have the arbitrary hand of luck to decide what the outcome of an action will be, while without the dice, it is at the DM's discretion. The issue is the worry players often have that the DM will be biased, or that the story will suffer, or that only the DM's character will survive because the DM's kind of cheating and meta-gaming and has a plot in mind that no one else knows about.


And those are all valid arguments for the misuse of death in a roleplay, but what about the proper diceless use? Surely in an rp where the players go in knowing the land fraught with danger may in fact kill them would raise the tension? And surely it would encourage them to research the world and consider their own characters carefully so that a meaningful death may be gained -- one that will affect the characters who will survive and perhaps even the plot itself.


In such an RP, communication would be key, but more importantly, the DM would have to be willing to establish the realism of his environment. He would need to be arbitrarily understanding the ferocity of a world that kills, and mete it out in reply to an inordinately careless act. This, I think, would make a compelling RP well worth the effort of writing for.

 

[Coward]

And those are all valid arguments for the misuse of death in a roleplay, but what about the proper diceless use? Surely in an rp where the players go in knowing the land fraught with danger may in fact kill them would raise the tension?

You're right that it would, but in most stories you don't actually need to fear for the characters life to achieve tension.


To me it's more likely to go the opposite direction and make characters act really dull and risk-averse. The thing about most compelling plots is they involve people making mistakes, acting irrational and surviving anyway. The logical thing to do in a survival situation is usually to start walking in the opposite direction when you see trouble, but does that lead to interesting RP?


You seem annoyed by people surviving their own stupidity in RPs, but for my part I'm happy to see the dumb-asses and maniacs live. They're the fun ones. What I can't stand are 'logic slow-mo' characters. You know: every decision they make is perfect because the RPer has plenty of time to agonise over it.


This is why in a show like The Walking Dead there remain a number of survivors who are complete morons. In reality they'd be dead: we're talking years after a zombie apocalypse. The writers know that you need people acting stupid and making mistakes. If every character was smart and capable and sane then the show would be predictable.

 

[NotEpic]

I think you can find a fine balance between harassing a character with the chance of death and keeping them alive by playing them smartly. But I prefer they make a mistake, a simple mental lapse, or a chance judgement that turned out to be the wrong one simply because nobody is perfect. If anything, I also like it when my characters get scrapped up, injured, or nearly got killed if they don't outright die. I've suffered death before in a Colosseum style RP and it sucked the first time, but I've gotten over it and I'm not against it entirely.

 

[call me rae]

Well also I think your making an assumption that most roleplays really require death to be interesting. When in fact most roleplays whether you like them or not don't really feature death as a realistic alternative.


Ex. Fandom roleplays, School Roleplays, Arranged Marriage Roleplays, Slice of Life Roleplays, etc.


People don't by and large roleplay for gritty realism because as @Coward points out that's actually fairly boring. Why would you want to roleplay a setting that is so true to real life that there's no excitement in it? If death is a forgone conclusion to your characters than there really isn't a whole lot you can do with that roleplay is there? It just because a ticking time bomb until oh wow the roleplay is over because my character is dead.


And for a lot of people that's just not fun. They aren't writing stories to be realistic they're writing stories to explore idealized versions of themselves or have fun light-hearted adventures.


Think about it : superheroes the world over exist in universes where death doesn't always mean a whole lot. And yet they still managed to have all kinds of stakes. Just because your character doesn't die doesn't mean they are living a life free of conflict.


They can face : religious, political, societal, gender, sexual, etc. discrimination.

 

[Tronethiel]

Dice games have the arbitrary hand of luck to decide what the outcome of an action will be, while without the dice, it is at the DM's discretion. The issue is the worry players often have that the DM will be biased, or that the story will suffer, or that only the DM's character will survive because the DM's kind of cheating and meta-gaming and has a plot in mind that no one else knows about...
In such an RP, communication would be key, but more importantly, the DM would have to be willing to establish the realism of his environment. He would need to be arbitrarily understanding the ferocity of a world that kills, and mete it out in reply to an inordinately careless act. This, I think, would make a compelling RP well worth the effort of writing for.

This is WHY I like dice for gritty environments. The unpredictability lends itself to a sense of dread. Sure, dice aren't always consistent or aware of good timing but neither is reality. That said, for the sake of tight storytelling, I see the argument for freeform death. The problem is that I can sympathize with players feeling otherwise. As a gm, you will always be handling the story. If you kill of a major character, you can introduce another one as well as a slew of npcs. The writing and experience will not end for you. For the player, however, you're threatening their only connection to and single view point of the world. It's not surprising that they would be hesitant, especially if they love the rp.


Alternatively, I agree with your point on communication. Some players are willing to sacrifice their characters. If they are, then working with them to make that death appropriate can be an effective tool. Its easy to say that character death makes good storytelling (which it very well may), but it's not easy to execute when your juggling the opinions, feelings, and enjoyment of 4-10+ people who only have a character or two. They could always make another character, I suppose, which all hinges on the forementioned communication, but they usually have more at stake. Well, that was rambling.


Do you think that the treatment of death in an rp should be the same as in a personal setting? Just interested in the perspectives of others.

The only reason I would kill a character is if their arc is over and they'd serve the plot better by dying.

I think this is probably a good rule of thumb. That said, I think a gm should always discuss character death extensively with the party involved. It's the gm's roleplay, but you should always respect the player's investment. Unless they are just breaking your rules and ignoring all good form after being warned. Then you can mercilessly cast them out.

But I commonly like to let my characters die or become somehow forever scathed/handicapped.

This is a good point as there are many interesting ways to torment/affect characters without killing them. What does everyone think are some interesting alternatives to death that make for good story development?


Edit: Right after I posted this last questions, I realized that fangirl did a great job of contributing. Thanks @nerdyfangirl. Great post.

 

[GoodJobDino]

Well we all know, either consciously or otherwise why we don't want something we created and are in some ways living a fantasy through to die, we don't want to die ourselves. So though I personally agree, and often greet death willingly, I believe that either,


A. There should be something to suggest you could die in the rp, before you start. And that if you do, it won't be because the gm made an arbitrary event happen like, "you step outside, it's a beautiful day, and you get shot by a shark on stilts, crazy stuff". But because you were given a fair chance to play carefully and in detail, and simply failed to. So instead of, "entering the dungeon with weary eyes squinted, I motion for the torch, as it is difficult to see before me." Well then perhaps you see the trap on the wall or ground. But if you, "walk into the dungeon, trusting darkness because darkness has never hurt me before" you trigger said trap.


B. Choose to let your character die on your terms within the bounds of the story/rp.


And obviously, everyone has a free choice of how they want to play or what kind of rp they want to join. But I think it's good to have a dialogue like this, because it may get players thinking about it either for their characters or rp. Death should have a place, and deserves to be represented, but should not be expected or mandatory.


Also, you all made fantastic posts and it was awesome to read so far.

 

[Dice]

I'm glad to see peoples responses to this. I for one do not like dice for realistic environments, I prefer to see the players reaction straight from the character. If that means they're an idiot, so be it.

 

[sorrow made you]

I've uh... actually killed one of my characters in their first post before. And I currently have a rp where I specifically state that if your character does something dumb, there is no plot armor to save them. They can potentially die.


For the most part, what I see is that there are several reasons:


1. Character creation leads to character attachment - It someone spends enough time building up a character that they like they may grow too attached and won't want to kill them off. Its a sentimental thing. It hurts them emotionally to think about their character dying.


2. I control, not you control for me - If a person doesn't necessarily want to willingly kill their characters, they may be subject to the GM of the rp dictating what happens to their characters, and just like in dice rolls, it may not always be planned out in the way they want it to be. That random and spontaneity scares some people. People much prefer to have a choice in a matter--especially regarding their character and character's well being--and so leaving it up to a GM or anyone else for that matter, to say that their character dies, is very offputting.


3. There are more, I said several, but I lost my train of thought. Dx


In regards to types of roleplays and whether they're boring or not and if death is necessary--it all depends on not only the genre but theme. As mentioned, if it is a roleplay where death may not be eminent, then there's really no need and no interest in it. But if its something like a survival rp or something more action-oriented, then death may be an option. Maybe the GM wants to lead characters through an adventure, but want them still to live. Then it would be about the experience, rather than the realistic survivability.


Usually I would read through all the post responses and sum up a little bit better, but unfortunately my attention span is a little shot. ;;A;;