concering stolen hearthstones

[Djalan Pride]

my players have ended up with a handful of stolen hearthstones.  the one's taken off of the coprses of dynasts type.  can they use these stones to power artifacts such as warstriders and the likes?  i dont forsee them running off to the blessed isle any time soon, so they're just going to remain unattuned stones for the duration.  is there an outlet i can give them for there use?

 

[Flagg]

That's a grey area in the rules, which I'm not sure has ever been clarified.


Can you use a hearthstone to power, for instance, a warstrider, if you're not attuned to it?


I don't know if I have a good answr for that.


-S

 

[Persell]

Well the rules are not entirely clear on that... agreed.


You could argue in both directions in cases of warstriders and I think it should be left to the storyteller and whe he deems best for the chronicle.


But then the problem should not be an issue for too long, I think when hearthstones fall into the hand of the enemy the owners willjust make alterations to the manse to make it produce a new one rendering the old one useless in the process.

 

[simnine]

I've always allowed the players to use stolen hearthstones. However, they would have a limited duration to use them. Those attuned to the manse would change the manse (or hire someone todo so) so as to destroy the hearthstone and recreate it.

 

[Forn Clakes]

See, I always thought that you can only use an attuned hearthstone for warstriders, but it may be my own interpretaion and the way I view how hearthstones work.  I mean, if you can only gain the benfits of a hearthstone through attunement, then surely the same would apply when set to power a massive suit of magical armour?


~FC.

 

[uteck]

From what I understand of changing a manse, it can be quite complex and dangerous.  The manse could be destroyed or crippled in the process.  That would just encourage people to hunt down the murdering thieves who took the stone then. :evil:


It also gives rise to the possibility that if you are powering an artifact with the stone, and someone changes the manse you suddenly are powerless.


Mmmm.... that would be a good tactic to betray some people with.  Lure them away then alter their manses, then attack them as their heartstones fail.  :twisted:

 

[Kajata]

I wouldn'ta thought you could just spring extensive manse alterations on a person :S  Don't they take years?


"Oh Mr. DB, come over heeeere!!  Now!  Go, go, go!!  Move those stones while he's around the corner!  Mwahahahaha!!"


As for the HS and stuff, I'd definately let them power an item.  As I see it, HS are like magical power condensed into solid form, and so a item's power systems would still be able to feed off of the raw essence of the stone, wheras, to crack the hard sugar-shell (if you will ) of said HS, an exalt has to attune himself to it to get to the magicky/chocolatey goodness inside

 

[Silence In Daylight]

In general, it's not cost-effective to alter a Manse in order to recover a Hearthstone for Dynasts, as there are many other Manses on the Isle. Even taking the S&S numbers with a grain of salt (and assuming that the Solars concentrated a large number of small demesnes into 4-dot and 5-dot ones, to cap with appropriate Manses), that's a lot of Manses and Hearthstones...

 

[uteck]

I wouldn'ta thought you could just spring extensive manse alterations on a person :S  Don't they take years?
"Oh Mr. DB, come over heeeere!!  Now!  Go, go, go!!  Move those stones while he's around the corner!  Mwahahahaha!!"

If I just want to change things enough to mess up his stones, then yes it is that easy.  Perhaps more then moving a few stones, but doing a few levels of damage in a key spot could do it.


If I wanted to change the manse so I could attune to it and control it, than that takes time and effort.  


It is always easier to destroy then create or change.

 

[Persell]

Huh? Actually it is extremely easy to damage a manse. All it takes is a wits+lore difficulty 5 roll and then you can even disrupt the essence flows without doing a whole lot of damage just removing "a gem out of a pattern or moving a mirror for a few feet" will do. I think that is a very cost efficient way to get back those hearthstones and afterwards you can still track down the thief and kill him.


(info was taken from savants and sorcerers p. 65)

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Huh? Actually it is extremely easy to damage a manse. All it takes is a wits+lore difficulty 5 roll and then you can even disrupt the essence flows without doing a whole lot of damage just removing "a gem out of a pattern or moving a mirror for a few feet" will do. I think that is a very cost efficient way to get back those hearthstones and afterwards you can still track down the thief and kill him.
(info was taken from savants and sorcerers p. 65)

 If you continue reading, you'll note that there is definite potential for the saboteur to get lots of agg damage to the face (especially when fooling around with high-dot manses), though S&S doesn't spell out the damage from the 'subtle damage' you mentioned above very clearly, as the 'subtle damage' isn't quantified in health levels, but only the disruption of the Hearthstone.

 

[Persell]

Huh? Actually it is extremely easy to damage a manse. All it takes is a wits+lore difficulty 5 roll and then you can even disrupt the essence flows without doing a whole lot of damage just removing "a gem out of a pattern or moving a mirror for a few feet" will do. I think that is a very cost efficient way to get back those hearthstones and afterwards you can still track down the thief and kill him.
(info was taken from savants and sorcerers p. 65)

 If you continue reading, you'll note that there is definite potential for the saboteur to get lots of agg damage to the face (especially when fooling around with high-dot manses), though S&S doesn't spell out the damage from the 'subtle damage' you mentioned above very clearly, as the 'subtle damage' isn't quantified in health levels, but only the disruption of the Hearthstone.

I never wrote that it is without dangers and always the way to go.

 

[simnine]

I do not mean it is something undertaken lightly. It requires great skill and great resources. Such a tactic would not be commonplace for retreiving hearthstones of less than level 4 and it can take months to perform.

 

[Persell]

I reckon that unattuned hearthstones can power artefacts, instead of giving the PCs (or NPCs) the essence benefits. It's the 'bonus' power of the hearthstone that is unavailable from lack of attunement, imho.


I'd also posit that (within the Realm and Lookshy at least) there are sufficient essence wielding geomancers who can relatively cheaply modify manses. Tuchara (the city) in Arjuf Dominion, for instance, specialises in Manse construction and design, and would probably design Manses in such a way that 'unrecoverable' stones can be recovered through sensible redesign. I'd even suggest that a whole sub-culture centres around this practice. Therefore the stolen hearthstones would only retain the power for a limited time, which could be a few years until investigators discovered the fate of their DB owners + the redesign time.

 

[Obsidian Silence]

How would I go about finding the manse that a captured hearthstone belongs to? for attunement purposes?


Besides All -encompasing Sorcerers sight i mean. I know that with time and AESS I can track the essence flow powerering the stone back to the manse but is there a quicker way?

 

[Persell]

There is the Hearthstone Compass described in the Fire aspect book. If you find a hearthstone you put it in the compass and it will lead you directly to it's manse. When you arrive at the manse it will lead you to the central chamber by the most direct route.

 

[Solfi]

... make a teleport spell that utilizes the connection of the Hearthstone to the Manse. Very useful in other situations as well, but then again, it smacks a bit of the Town Portal-spell ...

 

[Obsidian Silence]

Thanx fer the tips

 

[Persell]

Or even a diff 3, Int+Occult geomantic ritual, or attempt an attunement (Wit+Lore) to get a sense of the direction of the Manse without actually shattering it, probably a vague minds-eye image, feeling thing.