Come Winter's Light (Exalted/Modern) [Forum] [Dice]

[Esbilon]

Yes, heroic mortals follow the same revised rules but none of you are playing Heroic Mortals. You're all just ordinary mortals at this point. It was stated earlier this thread, in fact.

Wait, non-Heroic mortals? Are you sure you're saying what you mean? Nonheroic people aren't the kind of people who Exalt.

 

[Mei]

Oh, non-heroic mortals? I forgot there were rules for those. Let me readjust again.

 

[Flowing Ink Words]

Wait, non-Heroic mortals? Are you sure you're saying what you mean? Nonheroic people aren't the kind of people who Exalt.

Well, it -has- happened before in some games I've seen when a non-heroic mortal did something crazystupid (and succeeded at doing it), but that was a lot of luck involved. Still, I think I can make it work with my concept.

 

[Esbilon]

[QUOTE="Flowing Ink Words]Well, it -has- happened before in some games I've seen when a non-heroic mortal did something crazystupid (and succeeded at doing it), but that was a lot of luck involved. Still, I think I can make it work with my concept.

[/QUOTE]
Nonheroic mortals can transition to becoming Heroic Mortals, true enough. Generally through the application of horrible trauma or solar level charms.


But generally, nonheroics are ordinary people whose ambition are on the level of "get a good job and a husband who doesn't beat me," and that is not what I'm looking for in an Exalt-to-be.

 

[Flowing Ink Words]

Well, in the case in point, one said 'good husband' managed to survive flipping off an enraged Abyssal two rounds running. They kinda skipped from mortal to exalt in one big jump... But not a -normal- event by any stretch of imagination.

 

[FeMChara]

Nonheroic mortals can transition to becoming Heroic Mortals, true enough. Generally through the application of horrible trauma or solar level charms.
But generally, nonheroics are ordinary people whose ambition are on the level of "get a good job and a husband who doesn't beat me," and that is not what I'm looking for in an Exalt-to-be.

The point of this game is giving Exaltations to people of that sort, people woefully unprepared. They don't usually Exalt-but yet they do. The unassuming farmer's boy can become a hotshot pilot. The bored young girl with a precocious imagination fought off effectively a raksha by remembering what's important to her. A man drowning himself in drugs and women of negotiable virtue found himself drawing Second Breath at rock bottom.


Many times has Exalted told the story of heroic mortals becoming even more heroic. Fewer stories have been told about the streetkid who will rise up to an impossible mission. Fewer stories of the scientist whose pacifistic tendancies called them to a higher cause. The bored noble who realizes the world around them is their oyster due to unacceptable things.


No, they are not heroic.


Not yet. And that's the point entirely.

 

[Esbilon]

[QUOTE="Flowing Ink Words]Well, in the case in point, one said 'good husband' managed to survive flipping off an enraged Abyssal two rounds running. They kinda skipped from mortal to exalt in one big jump... But not a -normal- event by any stretch of imagination.

[/QUOTE]
I would argue that in a narrative context, said mortal was Heroic, even if their stats may have been decidedly average. Nonheroic people do not do stuff like that any more than dogs play the cello.

 

[Esbilon]

The point of this game is giving Exaltations to people of that sort, people woefully unprepared. They don't usually Exalt-but yet they do. The unassuming farmer's boy can become a hotshot pilot. The bored young girl with a precocious imagination fought off effectively a raksha by remembering what's important to her. A man drowning himself in drugs and women of negotiable virtue found himself drawing Second Breath at rock bottom.
Many times has Exalted told the story of heroic mortals becoming even more heroic. Fewer stories have been told about the streetkid who will rise up to an impossible mission. Fewer stories of the scientist whose pacifistic tendancies called them to a higher cause. The bored noble who realizes the world around them is their oyster due to unacceptable things.


No, they are not heroic.


Not yet. And that's the point entirely.

The farmer's boy who becomes a pilot is heroic. What else could drive him to go so far from his humble beginnings?


The imaginative girl who fights off a Raksha is heroic. If she were not, her principles would not be strong enough.


The streetkid who rises up to do the impossible is heroic. Only heroes try to do the impossible.


The pacifistic scientist who is called to a higher cause is heroic. Being truly called makes you a hero.


If you want true non-heroic characters I'll have to rethink my concept, or at least its execution, since Sophia is an unrepentant hero, and I'm not sure I could play a character in an Exalted game who wasn't.

 

[Shining Lotus Sage]

Wait, we're playing as extras? As Exalted terms them, that's the alternative to Heroic Mortals. Perhaps it's just a jargon misfire.

 

[Esbilon]

[QUOTE="Shining Lotus Sage]Wait, we're playing as extras?

[/QUOTE]
Not quite, an Extra is a nonheroic Mortal who can't stunt, has fewer health level and don't always have dice rolled against them.

 

[FeMChara]

I think you guys are missing the point entirely.


At least one is an actual Exalted in the book. Coraline was hardly heroic until the moment called for it. She was the opposite of heroic, in a number of senses. Dr. Nobel created dynamite to assist with coal mining and worked the rest of his life towards peace when he found out that his invention was being used in war for killing people.


In spite of parts of what the books say, there isn't much distinction between heroic mortals and mortals. A heroic mortal can be as such their whole lives without Exalting, without coming into a situation that calls for Exalted-level bravery.


Bravery to some is not that you fight without fear. Any fool can do that-but it takes a hero to overcome that fear, to find that courage. They do not necessarily start out heroic. To argue only heroes are heroic defeats the purpose of 'where do heroes come from?' The answer can be from anywhere.

 

[Esbilon]

Yes, obviously heroes can come from anywhere. I'm just saying that the people who become heroes are, narratively speaking, heroic. By definition. That's literally what "heroic" means.


Almost all heroic mortals go through their lives without Exalting, that's the only way it can be with the low number of Exaltations in circulation, but Exaltations look for more than just one moment of bravery/excellence/commitment/honesty/compassion, they look for someone who will take the power it offers and do something truly great with it, and that capacity for greatness is what distinguishes Heroic mortals from nonheroic mortals.

 

[FeMChara]

Yes, obviously heroes can come from anywhere. I'm just saying that the people who become heroes are, narratively speaking, heroic. By definition. That's literally what "heroic" means.
Almost all heroic mortals go through their lives without Exalting, that's the only way it can be with the low number of Exaltations in circulation, but Exaltations look for more than just one moment of bravery/excellence/commitment/honesty/compassion, they look for someone who will take the power it offers and do something truly great with it, and that capacity for greatness is what distinguishes Heroic mortals from nonheroic mortals.

There are several examples of Exalted who do squat with their Exaltations. In the First Age, Maha-Suchi's goal was "sleep with all of the Celestial Exalted". There's also a dude who became a crimelord and did nothing else with his Exaltation in spite of chance and reason to do so. I will also not continue this debate as you misunderstood what I was getting at.

 

[MechanOmicron]

Character creation for nonheroic mortals is identical to character creation for heroic mortals. There is no need to change anything on anyone's sheet. The only mechanical difference is that nonheroic characters don't count 0s as two successes. The difference is largely narrative.

 

[Esbilon]

There are several examples of Exalted who do squat with their Exaltations. In the First Age, Maha-Suchi's goal was "sleep with all of the Celestial Exalted". There's also a dude who became a crimelord and did nothing else with his Exaltation in spite of chance and reason to do so. I will also not continue this debate as you misunderstood what I was getting at.

1) Dreams of the First Age is not exactly the finest example of Exalted writing, 2) Ma-ha-suchi did a whole lot more with his Exaltation in the Second age than sleep around, but I'll agree he isn't the post boy for much of anything.


You're absolutely right that I don't understand what you're getting at as regards to the difference between Heroic and Nonheroic mortals. You seem to be interested in telling a story about nonheroic heroes, and I don't know what that means.

Character creation for nonheroic mortals is identical to character creation for heroic mortals. There is no need to change anything on anyone's sheet. The only mechanical difference is that nonheroic characters don't count 0s as two successes. The difference is largely narrative.

You are of course free to house rule this, but it's not how the rules are written. Nonheroic mortals only get 4/3/3 Attributes, 18 Abilities, and no favored ability.

 

[MechanOmicron]

You are of course free to house rule this, but it's not how the rules are written. Nonheroic mortals only get 4/3/3 Attributes, 18 Abilities, and no favored ability.

Under what rules? The "playing humans" sidebar of the core does not say any such thing.

 

[Epiphany]

As memory serves, a heroic mortal eligible for Exaltation is a mortal with a Destiny of 3. And to a degree, that's independent from whatever opportunities said heroic mortal has to actually be heroic.


2e's had quite the fetish for steering Exaltations towards people who are already heroes, particularly with the added qualifier that the shards only pick people who will actually wield the power given to them. The whole of 1e never had those requirements, though. Hell, the 1e Core book actually cited sun exposure as a possible cause of Solar Exaltation. While that may seem a bit silly to contemporary sensibilities, seems to be the ST of this game is well within her rights to focus on those people who've had power thrust upon them rather than people naturally thrusting out for power.


Not that I'm playing in this full game or anything. Just felt compelled to speak up.

 

[Esbilon]

Under what rules? The "playing humans" sidebar of the core does not say any such thing.

STEP TWO: ATTRIBUTES


Prioritize Attributes as normal, but with fewer points than one of the Chosen. Mortals get only six dots to


spend in their primary category, four dots in their secondary and three dots in their tertiary. This is a lot for a


mortal. While not Exalted, your character is still relatively powerful. Ordinary mortals have four dots in one Attribute category and three dots in the other two.


STEP THREE: ABILITIES


Unlike Exalted, mortals don’t have Caste Abilities. Heroic mortals get 25 dots to distribute among their


Abilities, while normal mortals get 18.


A heroic mortal may choose one Ability as a Favored Ability, complete with the discount. The character


excels in this Ability above all others, but he can never have any other Ability rated higher. The Favored Ability


must be equal to or greater than every other Ability he possesses. The Exalted aren’t similarly restricted—simply


another advantage of the Chosen over mortals.


Mortals may purchase specialties as normal.

 

[MechanOmicron]

Bluh, apparently I can't read.


God that's dumb. The game doesn't need that kind of excessive compartimentalization.


What do you even do with 18 Ability dots?


That's less Attribute dots than a mortal gets in the freaking World of Darkness.

 

[Esbilon]

Bluh, apparently I can't read.
God that's dumb. The game doesn't need that kind of excessive compartimentalization.


What do you even do with 18 Ability dots?


That's less Attribute dots than a mortal gets in the freaking World of Darkness.

Yes. Because these are the farmers, fishmongers and salesmen of the world. They're decent at one thing and terrible at most things.

 

[Flowing Ink Words]

Bluh, apparently I can't read.
God that's dumb. The game doesn't need that kind of excessive compartimentalization.


What do you even do with 18 Ability dots?


That's less Attribute dots than a mortal gets in the freaking World of Darkness.

Honestly? I used it for generating NPCs. Why the hell there's a PC generation for it? THAT is something I'd -love- to see a logic for. xD

 

[Shining Lotus Sage]

Okay, so, there appear to have been some cascading communication failures. That's cool. It happens sometimes. Recrimination is dumb, so let's just go forward with corrections, yeah?


We create using the Heroic Mortal numbers, but we don't double 10s for anything. Willpower (2BP/dot) is still derived from Virtues (3BP/dot). We do get a favored Ability, which has to be the highest or tied for highest. No specialties are free at the moment. Is that the intent?

 

[Epiphany]

Actually, in rereading the thread, I find myself intrigued and wouldn't mind submitting a concept. I can't quite tell if you have an excess of players or not since a lot of people find chat play a dealbreaker. Is there still a spot open? Or is the game still open to new pitches?

 

[Mei]

I'd say put in an app, there's no reason not to.

 

[Esbilon]

[QUOTE="Shining Lotus Sage]Okay, so, there appear to have been some cascading communication failures. That's cool. It happens sometimes. Recrimination is dumb, so let's just go forward with corrections, yeah?
We create using the Heroic Mortal numbers, but we don't double 10s for anything. Willpower (2BP/dot) is still derived from Virtues (3BP/dot). We do get a favored Ability, which has to be the highest or tied for highest. No specialties are free at the moment. Is that the intent?

[/QUOTE]
Indeed.


What confuses me, though, is how we're supposed to play our characters. I was imagining a character who spoke out against the nonsesne in the world, and who tried to understand it through science, and better it through technology, and who did all of this publically and emphatically. But if we're not meant to be heroes, does this mean that I should not try changing the world? Should I make a character who will be content with tenure at a community college somewhere? And whose ambitions for the year consists of passing her exams?