Charm Discussion [Four Factions ]

[xarvh]

I want to keep the modifications to the barest minimum.


I will approve changes that are supported by a significant number of players.


fhgwdads05 expressed concern about some charms in the recruitment thread:


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1081&start=26


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1081&start=30

 

[Tikor]

Re: House Rules


Immaculates vs. Seculars: they get the same number of Charms since this is a mixed game, I'm assuming?

 

[xarvh]

Re: House Rules


The idea would be to stick to the MEP.


Seven charms for the Dynasts, five for the Immaculates.

 

[saganite]

Re: House Rules


What's a problem isn't the exact number. What's wrong is that the book never specifically states if Immaculates pick all five Charms directly from their chosen Immaculate Martial Arts Style and get the Initiation Charms on top of that, or if they're forced to spend two of their five Charms on the Initiation Charms themselves first before taking their Style's Charms. The former is generally recommended in games with Celestials PCs alongside the Immaculate (where DBs need the power boost) and the latter is generally recommended for Dragon-Blooded games.


Since this game mixes both, you get stuck at a crossroads. The way I see it, you could do one of two things to keep things balanced for everyone:


1) Give the Immaculate the extra two Initiation Charms for free, on top of their normal five Immaculate Martial Arts Charms, as well as an extra (1) Bonus Point. Give the normal Dragon-Blooded Characters an extra three Charms on top of their normal seven, and explicitly state that these can only be used on Favored Charms. This gives you an equal bonus point total between each of their for the additional power, with the Immaculate gaining 15 bonus points in power (14 for two Celestial MA Charms, and 1 on top of that) and the Dragon-Blooded gaining the same number as well (15 for three Dragon-Blooded Favored Charms).


2) Force the Immaculate to spend two of his five Immaculate Martial Arts Charm choices on the initiation Charms. This leaves the Dragon-Blooded group ever morseo at Dragon-Blooded starting power levels. In this case, I suggest you give both of types of Dragon-Blooded an extra fifteen (15) bonus points to play with on top of their standard chargen - this will help bring them slightly more in line with the Celestials, and ensure that the DB's aren't completely steamrolled from the get-go.


There of course is the third option of using #2 and not giving them any extra BP, but that's not a good choice in my mind, given that they'll be up against dangerous Celestials (especially the Abyssals). If you've given them a whole crapload of requisitioned goods and troops from the Realm, that may help them a little, but their characters will still be far weaker overall. Giving the players some extra Charms or Bonus Points will enable them to give a little extra of an "umf" to their characters in the early game, at the very least, enabling them to stay in the fight with those Dragon-eating Anathema a little while longer.


EDIT: As far as Void Avatar Prana goes - Seriously, I really can't suggest enough that you please just drop it all together. Void Avatar Prana doesn't work as written (nor with what you've listed there for a change, unless you're implying you want to use Fixalted's entire change, and not just a cost of 4m). And while Fixxalted's change is mechanically sound in that it works with the system, it's unbalanced. It turns Void Avatar Prana into a Solar/Abyssal-level perfect defense (with an attack power to boot!). Celestial Martial Arts Styles are not Solar/Abyssal-level in power. Though I believe this, this isn't my opinion - this is a fact proven by comparing the CMA styles in every book out there (save a few horrible mistakes, like some Charms in Violet Bier of Sorrows Style, etc). It's something the writers themselves have come out and said. Obviously, you're free to ignore that if you feel that's what you want. I just wanted to make sure this was known.

 

[TheFeasterFromAfar]

fhgwdads05,


xarvh told us that the teams were purposefully chosen to be on unequal power levels. Since the DBs have little chance of defeating even one well built combat celestial there must be some plot device that will even the odds. The DBs will just have to flee from any serious combat until they can find their great equalizer, whatever it may be.

 

[saganite]

Fair enough.


Though, I should note that unless Dragon-Blooded have at least one to two hundred experience more than any Celestials they go up against, they're still completely shafted. And that's when they're fighting newbie to relatively inexperienced ones; against a seasoned Celestial, most Dragon-Blooded will die horribly even if they have a slight numerical advantage.


I hope you guys really do get a plot device, and if you do, I hope for your sake that it's enough.

 

[Tikor]

As for Charms tweaks proper, here's my suggestions mixed in with some super-relevant errata with credit given to PoH's superhouse:


Solars


Irrepressible Bravery Tactic is now a permanent charm and it only costs 2 motes to convert stunt die into successes. Though this charm does not take the charm slot (being permanent) each die converted to a success counts as 1 die from charms for the purposes of die caps. Scroll of the Monk p.84


Hypnotic Tongue Technique gains the Compulsion keyword. Exalted p. 203


Majestic Radiant Presence gains the Emotion keyword. Exalted p.204


Authority Radiating Stance gains the Illusion keyword. Exalted p.204


Durability of Oak's Duration is now Scene, and costs 3m and 1wp instead of 3m. Exalted p.206-207


Spirit Strengthens the Skin now reduces 2 pre-soak damage per mote. Exalted p.207


Iron Kettle Body now has a keywords section! They are: Nothing. Exalted p.207


Unbreakable Warrior's Mastery's Duration is now Scene (once activated all non-pre-existing Crippling effects are subject to a Stam+Resist roll for the rest of the scene). Exalted p.208


Friendship with Animals Approach has no prerequisites. Exalted p.209


Wonder Forging Genius also applies to Manses. Oadenols p.29


Chaos Repelling Pattern's Duration is now one day. Exalted p.216


Wyld Shaping Technique has a range of [Essence] miles. Exalted p.216


Wound Mending Care Technique's successes work at the end of the dramatic action. The additional [Essence] levels are still at the end of the day of resting.


Lunars


Shell-Crushing Atemi


The Fury effect of this Charm allows the Lunar to ignore


Hardness for the duration of her Fury. See Manual of Exalted


Power: Lunars, p. 145.


Flowing Body Evasion


Duration is Instant. Use is optional.


Snake Body Technique


Counterattack resolution begins at Step 9 (instigating a new Step 1) that is an unexpected attack with the original Step 1 declaration in addition to any Charms the Lunar wishes to add to attack that effect damage only. Successfully dodging or parrying the attack is a requirement that can be filled by FBE.


Might-Bolstering Blow


This Charm’s Fury effect returns one mote for each successful


attack, and one mote for each attack that deals damage. See


Manual of Exalted Power: Lunars, p. 158.


Halting the Scarlet Flow


This Charm is a reflexive Charm activation, and not a miscallenous


action. The Gift effect of this Charm requires the


committment of four motes, and allows the Lunar to reflexively


heal one level of lethal damage every action immediately before


her next action begins. This effect is incompatible with normal


activations of the Charm. See Manual of Exalted Power: Lunars,


p. 160.


Wound-Mastering Body Evolution


Divide sources of damage into Bashing, Lethal and Aggrivated.


Clover Can’t Be Found


When the character Joins Battle, Debate or War this Charm


lapses. See Manual of Exalted Power: Lunars, p. 160.


Irresistible Silver Spirit


This Charm’s duration is (Essence x 2) actions. See Manual


of Exalted Power: Lunars, p. 177.


Instinctive Essence Prediction


Activated with Relentless Lunar Fury, this Charm adds the


difference between the Lunar Exalt’s Essence and the Essence


requirement of Charms as bonus dice to the Lunar’s rolls when


contesting a Charm. See Manual of Exalted Power: Lunars,


p. 179.


Leaf-Falling Scrutiny


Now also works on Attribues, Willpower and Backgrounds. Each use can declare only one of the (now 4) trait types and one of the three uses listed on the Charm.


DBs


Glowing Coal Radiance - now Reflexive


Hopping Firecracker Evasion - now step 9, Counterattack


Elemental Defense Tech - replace "First, any Archery attacks are totally negated, as any incoming arrows are torn apart by the surging elemental force." with "First, any ranged attacks are severely dampened, losing 10 raw damage as they are deterred from their intended target by the surging elemental force".


Still need to look at DBs more.


Abyssals


Haven't looked at these yet.

 

[Chaka]

Fair enough.
Though, I should note that unless Dragon-Blooded have at least one to two hundred experience more than any Celestials they go up against, they're still completely shafted. And that's when they're fighting newbie to relatively inexperienced ones; against a seasoned Celestial, most Dragon-Blooded will die horribly even if they have a slight numerical advantage.


I hope you guys really do get a plot device, and if you do, I hope for your sake that it's enough.

Pfft. A well-built starting dragon-blood making clever use of free reflexives and stunting to regenerate essence quickly is a match for a starting celestial, and underestimating Dragon-Blooded gets Celestial Exalted killed. Not to mention that Dragon-Blooded rarely work alone, and almost nothing is as dangerous as a group of well-built starting dragon-blooded making clever use of free reflexives and stunting to regenerate essence quickly whilst breaking out the Co-operative charms.


Don't be so quick to dismiss them. You may regret it later.

 

[saganite]

First off, I never mentioned a group of Dragon-Blooded in the context of a starting or unexperienced Celestial. Good for your Dragon-Blooded rarely working alone. I take it you're assuming you're dealing with Realm or Lookshyan Dragon-Blooded. Tell that to the poor Outcaste who's running around on his own, and please, do remember that there happen to be more Outcastes in Creation than Realm Dragon-Blooded. While there are many, many, more of them in Creation than Celestials, assuming that Dragon-Blooded work together more often than other Exalt types is fallacious. It has been stated many times throughout the entire Exalted line that Celestials are naturally drawn towards collecting together in groups, be they circles, packs, gatherings, etc. Working together isn't something only the Dragon-Blooded do - it's just within the purview of their Charms and powers. Nothing more.


And stunts? That's not a very strong arguing point. If you claim it for one side, you damn well better be prepared to claim it for both. A stunting Celestial can perfect nigh-indefinitely until you unload an insane flurry on her. And even then, if she's smart and prepared, I doubt she'll even need the perfect defense most of the time.


Now, show me your "well-built" Dragon-Blooded. Go on. Pick your three Immaculate Martial Arts Charms and two Initiation Charms, or your Excellencies or whatever from your 7 standard Charms. Do it. In response, I'll not only show you "well-built" - I'll show you true horror. How this: a kitted out Dawn with an Orichalcum Grand Goremaul (how about with Jade Hearthstone bracers, hmm? you don't always find Orichalcum just sitting around anywhere) and a combo with a Melee Excellency, Iron Whirlwind Technique, and a perfect defense. For argument's sake, said Perfect defense is Seven Shadow Evasion, and we're adding Leaping Dodge Method in there as well. Show me a starting Terrestrial that can take that on. Hell, show me a starting Terrestrial that can take on a starting Solar with say, a Daiklave, and a combo with Peony Blossom Attack, a Melee Excellency, and a DV penalty reducer. Or an Archery Solar with Trance of Unhesitating Speed and DV reducer? Or the Thrown Solar with Cascade of Cutting Terror and a DV reducer? Or how about that Snake Stylist, who has a combo of Snake Bites the Heel and Iron Skin Concentration? Seriously. I want to see this.


Please, give me a little more credit.


EDIT: Tikor, Iron Kettle Body was revised to have both the Combo-OK and Obvious keywords in the pdf rerelease of the Core. Also, the text of Abyssals' Poisoning the Will, which is the mirror of Hypnotic Tongue Technique, lists a stealth-errata for its mirror, giving it the Compulsion keyword as it should have (and explaining that the mirror should have it too). For the other Solar Charm tweaks, you should also tweak the respective Abyssal mirrors in the same manner. I'm with you on those changes though, provided others are and xarvh is okay with it all.

 

[xarvh]

Tikor, there is NO way in Hell or Heaven that I'm going to apply all of those.


Select a precious indispensable few and go with it.