Advice/Help Character Goals vs. Plot

[Willow Whisp]

This is just a trend I've noticed that maybe other roleplayers have seen as well and have advice for it.

Generally, when I look for roleplays I tend to search for one x one or small groups. It's easier to keep track of the story. The less people, the less likely your story ends because someone dropped off your thread completely. We all have those great stories that just die out because too many people were in it, it was hard to manage, and it generally never went anywhere. Anyway, the biggest downside to this is there's no real structure. I often times find people looking for story ideas revolving around characters and the romance.

It typically goes like this:

"I want to do a story about patient and doctor."
"Cool, what's the plot."
"The patient falls in love with the doctor, but they can't be together."

That's not a plot or storyline. I see this quite frequently. Do you just 'nope I'm out' with this person or try to educate them?

The reason it frustrates me is because it's generally left on you to create the story. And you're reacting it, but your partner isn't really invested. They want the romance piece while you do the work. You then will be in a writer's block frenzie and ask for help, where the typical response is "Your ideas are great lets just do that." Eventually it leaves your burned out and you leave for awhile and come back.

Has anyone else run into this? And if so, do you also feel burned out after trying to maintain the story for awhile? What are good ways to avoid that blank burned out feeling

 

[Onmyoji]

It's easier to keep track of the story. The less people, the less likely your story ends because someone dropped off your thread completely. We all have those great stories that just die out because too many people were in it, it was hard to manage, and it generally never went anywhere. Anyway, the biggest downside to this is there's no real structure. I often times find people looking for story ideas revolving around characters and the romance.

I agree with this and this is also one of the reasons I prefer to play 1x1.
I did have some good experience with group RP that didn't suffer from that but it required a HUGE effort of the DM to keep it on track. DM showed amazing dedication and the players were mature enough to not mess the whole thing up. But I find this rare. It's way easier to keep things on track with 1x1 or small groups with 3-4 people.

"The patient falls in love with the doctor, but they can't be together."

While I agree it's not the plot, it's still a decent starter for the plot and can be developed into a good RP with enough input from both players (I'll only talk from 1x1 perspective as it's my main rp pattern).
Key word is BOTH.

There is nothing wrong with feeling burnt out and get writer's block when you feel like you're forced being a DM in 1x1 with practically no input or support from another player. I felt that too. And for me it's a huge neon sign to initiate the process of disbanding the RP due to lack of compatibility with rp partner. These things happen and you shouldn't be afraid of this, as long as you handle it politely.

If you do not wish to stop the RP for whatever reason, another way to overcome this is to discuss the issues with the partner. Maybe the partner doesn't even realise they don't give enough input and they genuinely like your ideas. Talk to them, discuss the plot and ideas, ask for their input. But if nothing helps, see my previous statement.

All of the above is my personal opinion and I don't assume it's the only possible solution. Every person deals with this in a different way, there is no one 'correct' way.

 

[DisneyGirl]

"The patient falls in love with the doctor, but they can't be together."

I'd say that actually is a plot; it's just missing the reason why they can't be together. Examples: It's against the hospital rules and could result in the doctor losing his/her job; one of them is already with somebody else; the patient is dying and has little chance of surviving. Etc etc etc. The story then becomes about the couple overcoming that obstacle and all the other obstacles that come with it. Boom. You got a plot that could easily be a movie, a novel or a 1x1 roleplay.

As for the burned out feeling, I do know the feeling when I'm searching for a new partner or two. There's a lot of roleplayers like what you described. The good news is-- at least in my experience-- it's usually pretty obvious by the first couple of messages if they are the "lol k00l lets do that" kind who doesn't contribute. And honestly, when I find myself with that kind of roleplayer, I just drop them and brainstorm with other folks until I find somebody who I can actually bounce ideas with. It's a waste of time and too much of a headache trying to write with somebody who makes you do all the work, especially when there's people out there who are much easier and way more fun to collaborate with. Life is just too short, ya know? If people want to enjoy a good piece of romantic fiction without having to come up with ideas and actually write them out, then they should read a novel, not do a roleplay. Likewise, if I wanted to write a romance story by myself, I would have just started working on writing a novel and not went looking for a roleplay partner in the first place.

As for those who enjoy the teamwork of writing a roleplay, they're out there and worth looking for instead of settling on someone who wants to be told a story instead of helping tell a story.

 

[Tove]

It could work but I don't like the idea of forced romance it seems forced to me like the two have to fall in love. Although I don't mind romance I rather see how the characters interact with one another first then maybe if they fall in love so be it but there's got to be more. Romance has be on the side. I wouldn't immediately say I'm out I would have to work hard with the plot pitch ideas and get more in return.
If I'm doing all the work I will leave. I'm not interested in pitching ideas if my partner just wants to be romanced.

 

[Idea]

Topic list
1. Plot vs character motivation
2. Planning as an uncommon method
3. Romance is a plot (what is a plot?)
4.How to avoid being burned out for planning

Ok, there is a heck of a lot to talk about here. So I suppose that I'll tackle this with separate topics rather than in one long string.

1.Plot vs Character Motivation
At first when I saw this thread I presumed by the title it was gonna be a question of which , in case of doubt, ought to trump in a roleplay: The needs of the plot or the motivation of a character, in terms of deciding what the character does.

Beyond the obvious opinion that those should, if you set up the plot and character well, match at least as far as the character's actions are concerned, assuming a case where that has failed, I'd argue for the needs of the character. The plot is composed of many more elements than just the character so it's possible to stir it in the right direction again by other means, sometimes a little contrived but hopefully still internally consistent. On the other hand, making your character act out of themselves is character breaking. An inconsistent character is boring, contrived and often leads to symptoms of Mary sueness due to not being limited by their own personality. Inconsistent characters are something I truly hate, to be honest, having ruined many roleplays for me in the past.

2.Plot vs Plotting (Planning is uncommon)

I am a planner by nature. I like planning my plots, I like developing good well-structured stories, I like setting up scenes... I like a well-fleshed out plan gradually coming together over a parade of surprises. That said, I'm in the vast minority.

Most players are more inclined to a "go with the flow" type of roleplaying. The idea they have is to build the story as they go or simply make a sort of character study, not much a story to speak of just jamming characters into a world with a faint premise and seeing where it goes. No end goal or planned scenes, just watching characters develop and interact and hoping for the best as they attempt the most spontaneous and organic responses they can muster. In a nutshell, and of course with gradients, this is how the average roleplayers feels about developing a story.

Which is not to say they are wrong. In this case it's a matter of preference. Fluency over good structure, surprises over accomplishment, simple trade-offs. I'm telling you this because while yes, plenty of people are just plain lazy, there is a large sect of people within the community who do a lot of the things that you complained about without incurring into what one could describe as not contributing. Rather they want to contribute in the roleplay itself as opposed to any planning stages. If you want it otherwise, you can't assume it, you must actively seek it out.

3.Romance is Still a Plot

Romance, even pairings, can serve as a plot. This is more of an assumption I've gained from your wording, so I do apologize if I'm mistaken, but you seemed to be somehow working from the assumption that you can't make a plot just out of the romantic relation of two characters. I believe this to be a dangerously wrong viewpoint, whether you personally have it or not. The danger is in ignoring not only a large portion of plots , but in damaging your own perception of character growth.

So, what is a plot? In it's simplest form, a plot is simply a goal and the obstacles in between the character and that goal. So long as those three elements exist , the goal, the problems and the character progressing through the problems to the goal, you have a plot. Do note because it is of special importance here, that said goal does not have to be the character's own. While the character being invested in the overall goal of the story is certainly endearing, it is not a requirement for a plot to be a plot.

For that reason, even a simple ship can be a plot, so long as some form of obstacle stands between the characters and the shipping. As such, a full blown role romance, while by no means a good plot or anything meant to last, is still a plot. Romance shouldn't be discarded as a mere thing on the side, though of course if you don't want to focus on it you don't have to.

4.How to Avoid Burn Outs
Lastly, to answer your questions. Yes, it does happen a lot, me getting with people who respond about as well as an automatic machine when it comes to making progress in a conversation. I've learned that picking the right people by how they type and being specific about what you want and how you are also helps a lot in getting people who are more willing to think. More than anything, try to keep asking questions, keep the ball on their park.

But, if you find yourself running out of ideas, this is what I tell you: plan ahead. Plan while you're not burned out, make an end goal, plan long-term not just short term. Figure what needs to happen to get there, focus the times when you are lacking ideas in finding the optimal way to get there instead of resting new paths. Do that and even burning out, you'll still have good material to work with.



Hope this helps! Good luck and happy rolepalying!

 

[Willow Whisp]

All this advice is great guys. Learning different perspectives at how to look at plot. I didn't think about the obstacles and everything. Typically I think big grand stories, but you're right. Grey's is one of my guilty pleasures and they run off those storylines all the time.

And the burn out advice is great. All of you. Biggest take away...it's about the partners and choosing where to spend your time.