Back on the subject of Movement... You can't every tick

[Thenlar]

The general consensus on normal movement is that since it's reflexive, you can use it every tick, as long as you're not somehow prevented, such as being prone.


This is reflected in Kasumi's Exalted Combat 201.


However, flipping through the errata on the wiki, I came across this.

You can only move every Tick that you are able to act on. So you can't attack someone and then Move the next Tick, because you have to wait until the next Tick you can act on. You could Move, Guard and then abort your Guard to Move and Guard the next Tick though.

Original text, from question on Monkey Leap Technique


Which pretty much contravenes everything most of us have been working with so far.

 

[Toloran]

I've always played it using the method in the quoted text: You can move on every tick you can act on.

 

[Plague of Hats]

The page is commentary by Borgstrom, who helped to write but did not actually write the core rules. Further rules from Michael Goodwin continue to suggest movement every tick. As awesome as she is, she can be wrong.


On top of that, the stuff you quote was added by Draknesis and unattributed and is not an original part of the document. I think it might be user commentary and not from Dr. Moran at all. There appears to be a growing amount of user commentary on the page, which should probably be dealt with.

 

[Jukashi]

I would always allow a little movement every tick. For one thing, that allows some cool stuff to happen, like throwing yourself in front of an attack to protect someone; for another, regardless of how it works as an abstraction, no movement without acting would give the sensation of being frozen every other tick. And, finally, having some small thing you can choose to do keeps people interested when it's not their action (and simply saying "I move to X" won't interrupt another person's action in any big way).

 

[Malekith]

Makes for "Flash" like combat too, which is always fun!

I would always allow a little movement every tick. For one thing, that allows some cool stuff to happen, like throwing yourself in front of an attack to protect someone; for another, regardless of how it works as an abstraction, no movement without acting would give the sensation of being frozen every other tick. And, finally, having some small thing you can choose to do keeps people interested when it's not their action (and simply saying "I move to X" won't interrupt another person's action in any big way).

 

[Persell]

"The character sprints up to (Dexterity) yards per tick over land." "Per Tick", this seems to indicate that you can in fact move every tick AND it's actually in the rule book.

 

[Flamane]

If a tick is about one second long and a character can move three yards per tick, it's easy to do the math. Consider the world record of 43.9 km/h or 13.34 yards per second (stablished on the last olympics by Usain Bolt), and I believe the answer to the riddle is clear.


You can allow that much movement per tick since a dexterity 5 character with no penalties would dash 11 yards per second. The only problem would be the fleet of foot merit that would raise this number to 17 yards per second... Something I don't think any mortal could accomplish.


I've always used the "move only on action" rule, but I think people should play as they like, and I'm honestly tempted to change the way I play.

 

[Flagg]

I just switched over to movement every tick. I think it makes combat more interesting, and keeps players more engaged between their actions.


I needed to come up with a few house rules to make it flow smoothly (mostly determining who gets to move in what order), but it works well.

 

[magnificentmomo]

If a tick is about one second long and a character can move three yards per tick, it's easy to do the math. Consider the world record of 43.9 km/h or 13.34 yards per second (stablished on the last olympics by Usain Bolt), and I believe the answer to the riddle is clear.
You can allow that much movement per tick since a dexterity 5 character with no penalties would dash 11 yards per second. The only problem would be the fleet of foot merit that would raise this number to 17 yards per second... Something I don't think any mortal could accomplish.


I've always used the "move only on action" rule, but I think people should play as they like, and I'm honestly tempted to change the way I play.

The fact that a dex 5 character dashing is slower than the world record holder is silly. Granted for game balance it has to be there, but it still silly.


Also emphasis mine.

 

[Gylthinel]

If a tick is about one second long and a character can move three yards per tick, it's easy to do the math. Consider the world record of 43.9 km/h or 13.34 yards per second (stablished on the last olympics by Usain Bolt), and I believe the answer to the riddle is clear.
You can allow that much movement per tick since a dexterity 5 character with no penalties would dash 11 yards per second. The only problem would be the fleet of foot merit that would raise this number to 17 yards per second... Something I don't think any mortal could accomplish.


I've always used the "move only on action" rule, but I think people should play as they like, and I'm honestly tempted to change the way I play.

A mortal also cannot do a standing jump of 10 yards straight up, but you can in Exalted. Nor can they lift a horse, but you can in Exalted. The game takes the mundane far beyond the possible, so moving a few yards faster than the fastest person on earth is small potatoes compared to the other records you can break.

 

[Flamane]

A mortal also cannot do a standing jump of 10 yards straight up, but you can in Exalted. Nor can they lift a horse, but you can in Exalted. The game takes the mundane far beyond the possible, so moving a few yards faster than the fastest person on earth is small potatoes compared to the other records you can break.

It's true, a man can't jump 10 yards upwards, not even 20 horizontaly, and I think those rules are ridiculous. The characters in Exalted are supposed to do outstanding things, but only the exalted ones. How great is your Solar hero if an average village strongman can jump over a tall city wall? Even the gritty rules (half the values mentioned) are a bit too much for my taste. I use one quarter Str+Ath for jumping up and half for jumping horizontally. If some guy wants to jump like a rabbit, let him use excellencies.


About the athletics feats table, I don't think it's too crazy. Have you ever watched one of those World Strongest Man tournaments? There you see guys pushing busses for 10 yards and other crazy (and rather useless) stuff.

The fact that a dex 5 character dashing is slower than the world record holder is silly. Granted for game balance it has to be there, but it still silly.
Also emphasis mine.

Yes, I play with gritty rules. If the characters want to be super human, they must earn it. And also, the fact that the dex 5 character is slower than the world record breaker isn't important. It's just to make things feasible, not exact.

 

[magnificentmomo]

Any stat at 3-4 dots is supposed to be Olympiad range. 5 should really be superhuman if not overtly so.


I am all for grittier games, but I am talking about RAW and fluff not exactly matching.

 

[Flagg]

Any stat at 3-4 dots is supposed to be Olympiad range. 5 should really be superhuman if not overtly so.

5 is exceptional, but not superhuman. The superhuman range is 6+.

Ordinary humans have Attributes ranging from one to four dots,


and most people have two or three dots in all of their Attributes.

 

[cyl]

So... if I get your argument right the difference lies within these 2 options:


1- you can move on every tick you act


2- you can move on every tick


I think the 2 is probably the most accurate, but the heaviest to deal with in game reguarding the hit & run technique.


Picture a dex 5 (A) and a dex 4 (B) characters fighting each other from 0 yds (face to face) with 2 ticks of delay between each other


T0: A attacks B + move 5yds (A - 5yds - B)


T1: B moves 4 yds A moves 5 yds (A - 6yds - B)


T2: B is 6yds from A, can't attack unless he flurries a dash + attack A moves 5yds B moves 10 yds (A-1yd-B)


T3: B attacks and continue running (now that he has taken a -3DV, he better get the hell out of reach), A moves 5yds B moves 10yds (B - 4yds - A)


T4: B sprints again 10yds, A moves 5yds (B - 9yds - A)


T5: A declares a flurry dash + attack and sprints 11yds, B moves 4 yds (B- 2yds-A)


T6: A sprints 11 yds and attacks (B is at -3DV) and continues to run past B, B moves 4 yds (A - 5yds - B)


T7: A sprints again 11yds, B moves 4yds (A -12yds - B)


etc etc... it's gotta be hell to keep track of everyone's movement if you apply 2-

 

[wordman]

it's gotta be hell to keep track of everyone's movement if you apply 2-

Yep; however, that is definitely what the rules actually say. What they intended to say, however, is not that clear.


One approach might be to just stop treating Dash as an action. Instead, allow the reflexive Move action to work in two "modes": the one that already exists and a faster one, where you move more quickly, but your DV penalty increases.

 

[cyl]

Problem is also speed and action speed. Like when you attack, do you attack in the interval of the 5 ticks of your weapon or do you attack during the first tick and then spend 5 ticks waiting for your DV to refresh...


If so, it would mean taking guard / movement actions to move towards your target delaying your action, your speed 5 and your dv refresh.

 

[wordman]

Problem is also speed and action speed. Like when you attack, do you attack in the interval of the 5 ticks of your weapon or do you attack during the first tick and then spend 5 ticks waiting for your DV to refresh...

Rules as written say the latter. It makes movement-based characters... difficult.

 

[cyl]

To say the least :lol:

 

[Flamane]

Any stat at 3-4 dots is supposed to be Olympiad range. 5 should really be superhuman if not overtly so.

I believe you're underestimating our athletes...


About all the rest, it's clear to me the rules are too confusing. Maybe they're supposed to be that way. It's a storytelling game, not a bookkeeping game. Each group should use what they like better, doesn't matter what the core book or other people (please don't take it the wrong way...) says. I've found some quite good suggestions in this topic, and am inclined to try them all.


My conclusions were: movement every tick allows a more interesting combat, but is a strain to the storyteller. I will use a board to try and make things easier. The combats will probably change a lot, become a bit more strategic and less "I activate my super combo while theydistract him", which will make the mass combats even more interesting. After our next session, I'll post the results.

 

[Flagg]

I think a grid (square or hex) is a must for this kind of playing. The amount of maneuvering that goes on in a move-once-per-tick combat will quickly become impossible to keep track of unless there's a visual aid.


Edit: Personally, I use a hex map, which has caused me to change the max number of assailants per character to 6, but that's pretty minor.

 

[Flamane]

I like hex boards too. Will change the number of assailants, thanks for the tip!

 

[MrMephistopheles]

Just in case it hasn't been outright said. Yes you can reflexively take a Move action each tick.

 

[Flamane]

As promised, I'm back to report on my experiences with the "move every tick" rules. I used a hex grid as visual support with some lego to make the landscape (it was my favorite toy as a kid, and I still have lots of it).


The characters learned pretty easily how to work around the new system, they're experienced players. They had to use the terrain in order to surround and better fight their enemies, and, being able to see the buildings, themselves and the enemies made them come up with some rather nice stunts! The visual aids are from now on a MUST in my Exalted games.


One character was slower than an opponent, wich made it difficult for him to keep on combat, but not for long. He soon realized he could take a dash/guard action in only 3 ticks and then attack. It made him a slower fighter, but he didn't complain. I guess his next upgrade will be a new dexterity dot, though.


The other problem I had was: one of the characters is a mounted fighter. The marukani dawn caste took dash/attack actions, entering, attacking, and then leaving the reach of his enemies. He added a whole new advantage in mounted combat besides the DV bonus (not to mention the charge damage bonus). But I can't complain, It'll only force me to counter his strategy, just like they had to in order to avoid the scape of faster opponents.


Botton line is, I really enjoyed the new rule and specially the use of miniatures. If other people should like to try, I strongly recommend.

 

[Flagg]

But I can't complain, It'll only force me to counter his strategy, just like they had to in order to avoid the scape of faster opponents.

Archers.


Also, unless he has a Charm that lets him use his defensive abilities on his mount, the horse is the weak link in the chain, DV wise. Probably easier to hit than he is.


Also, remember that all of his combat actions are capped by his Ride ability when on horseback.

 

[Kyeudo]

That brings up something that's always bothered me. Exactly how fast does a horse move in combat?