Autochthon 2.0?

[Persell]

I do that already, and I don't have kids. You still haven't answered my questions. At all.

Yes, I did. You just didn't like the answers.


No, I'd not take them to an art museum, for the same reason I'll not have the new cover of Exalted in my house. They are not ready.

But you got all the old books? You know some of them contain acts of violence on the cover. Violence usually kills people, sex doesn't (usually ).

 

[Nightcaste]

I know a handy trick to turn a paper grocery bag into a book cover, if you're interested.

 

[Guest]

Actually, a friend has suggested that already, and I might go that route, if/when I decide other than pretty pictures there is stuff in 2E of vlaue to me. (I know there's stuff of value to others, and you're welcome to it if there is)


As for a book cover, for most RPG books, I have found that the Mead 5 Star eXpanz spiral notebook cover will fit over most hardcover RPGs, and has the added benifit of having a built in folder. It can hold character sheets, a softocer or two, and has a handy second pouch for dice/pencils.


I use it a lot at cons, protects my book and is functional. Maybe I'll snap a pic of that in use sometime, if anyone is interested. Hopefully, Mead is still making them.

 

[Flagg]

Yes, I did. You just didn't like the answers.

No you didn't. What's wrong with you kids seeing nipples?


-S

 

[Guest]

Fine. I'm a prude. Does it make you fweel better now that you can attach a label to me?

 

[Flagg]

You attached a label to yourself, not me. I still don't see an explanation of how looking at a drawing of a nipple is something that your kids should be prevented from doing.


So you're a prude. Do you have any rational reasons for this, or do you just feel this way "because"?


-S

 

[Jukashi]

Me, I sez; get 'em used to it now, when you can control it, so their brains won't explode later, when they encounter things outside your protection.


Because they will, you know. It's an unstoppable force.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Now, see I got my first sex ed in 5th grade. Again in 6th.  And again in 7th.  And 8th.  And in high school as well.  And while I was a horny little bastard--let's face it, if they could harness the sheer energy that teens focus on sex related thoughts, we could just do away with the Yankee series of nuclear plants and just use that to power both the US, Canada, and fifteen third world nations to be named later--it did give me a solid foundation to not get anyone pregnant until we chose to have kids--and that was at 32.


While it is a parent's responsibility to educate their child in these matters, I think the schools do need to be in line to step up to the plate, if the community isn't doing their job.  Especially if the community is wailing about the effects of teen pregancy all the while bemoaning the general lack of moral terptitude.


If parents were doing their damn jobs, we wouldn't be seeing law suits suing schools for their childrens' poor behavior and the results of it.  If parents were doing their damn jobs, we might see TVs being turned off instead of bemoaning the horrible state of programming.  Of kids computers coming OUT of the bedroom, and into the living room so that you can watch Johnny surf the net, and check the damn history on occasion, while he's right there, and knows that you're aware if he downloads porn.  


I've got a daughter.  A wonderful girl, but I don't think that she needs to be protected from naked people.  Educated, certainly.  Answer her questions, certainly, but naked isn't harmful.  Putting things in the proper context, yes, that is a real need.  The difference between art and porn.  A good explanation of what constitutes a relationship as opposed to mindless scrogging, yes.  But sex alone isn't harmful.  It's normal, it's natural, and she's going to be interested, probably before I'm really ready to accept it, but that doesn't mean I can shrik my responsibility as a parent to put things in the proper context for her.  


If a child knows what your beliefs are, and you are teaching her what you think is right, all along, then the vaugaries of the public system should be no shock--because she'll know what you think is right before it becomes an issue in school.  If you're trying to avoid it--and a lot of parents are--then perhaps a child's first experience with sex ed is going to be in school, and to be honest, that's a safety net, in case parents are avoiding such things.  


It's a sign that you fucked up as a parent, and maybe were a little late.  And if your community is up in arms about teen pregnancy and the general trends of teh sexy in public and the media, then the schools are caught in trying to appease the community, and caught in a Catch 22--how do you keep the kids from having sex too early and getting pregnant?  By educating them, early and often.  Then you've got parents screaming "It's too early! OMIGOD you're corrupting my little one!"


Make up your goddamn minds, already.  You can't educate kids about sex, by NOT talking about it.  If anything, early and frank discussions, coupled with firm guidance by parents to put things in the proper context is essential if you want your kids to know what they're doing.  Ignoring it only means they'll soak up messages from other kids, the media, and whatever books they're reading--which as a good parent you ought to have a fair idea about as well.  


The idea that kids have to be protected from sex is only applicable to sexual predators--and you ought to be educating them about how to be safe there as well, early and often.  If you do your job, they're going to know how you feel about things, and more importantly, why you feel that way. You arm your kids with knowledge, you give them the power of informed choice, otherwise, you just leave them open to misinformation and at the mercy of their hormones, which is akin to dropping them off into the woods and telling them "Good Luck" without any equipement or training.


What's worse, are the parents who expect everyone else to do their jobs for them, and then moan about what a bad job they did handling their darlings for them.  Their kids are precious enough to wail about, after the fact, but not precious enough to be active about their education or their lives.  Those folks are real ratfuckers.

 

[Flagg]

Personally, I never had "the talk" with my parents, but I wasn't agressively shielded from "adult" material either. By the time I got to sex ed in school, they taught me NOTHING that I didn't already know, and I had no incorrect notions about sex or gender for them to dispel.


I grew up to be a fairly vanilla heterosexual. I've never gotten anyone pregnant. I don't have any weird kinks. I'm not a rapist or a child molester.


Honestly, I think the kids who need sex ed are already at the shallow end of the pool. It's not rocket science.


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

Even if they didn't have the talk, you were pretty sure by that time what your parents' views were.  You were educated, slowly but surely, and the lack of "protection" meant you got educated, and in context with what your parents believed.  No hoo hoo.  


If you're open and honest with your kids, you don't need to go the extra distance.  My Dad, fucked up as he is, was there if I had questions, and he gave me the tools to look things up if I wanted.  That freedom allowed me to educate myself, and by the time school came around to teaching me, I had a pretty good idea about things.  The numbers game was sobering though--for disease, for pregnancy, for effects.  Then again, I was educated, Pre-AIDS, during the first wave of the AIDS scare, and after the flush.  Folks lost their damn minds about it.


When we were first starting out, the worst you were looking at was a sore dick and some antibiotics.  Then, suddenly, sex could kill you.  Slow. Nasty.  Suddenly, it wasn't the same as the swinging 70s.  Nothing like getting prepped for lots of fun and games, and then getting that thrown in your face.  


The pregnancy issue was nothing compared to suddenly discovering you could die. Learned all I could about how NOT to get killed for the Nookie.  And did a fair job at it--no diseases, no sores, not one of the gazillion people that the herpicin ads seem geared towards.  


I am just jarred by the idea that you need to protect your children from naked people.  Naked people brings up questions, certainly, but those are easy to field.  Again, it comes out to putting things in context, and if you're pretty much open and honest, you don't need a lot of hand holding and grand initiations--your kids will know, because they've been taught their entire lives.  Much like drinking.  Or politics.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Unfortunately, at least a fourth of parental units in the US (I don't know about the ratios elsewhere, but I suspect there's at least a significant minority everywhere) believe that children should be kept from certain things until 'they're old enough.' And are horrified--absolutely horrified, I say!--when reality intrudes.


 Oh, and they somehow assume that their kids will spontaneously acquire this knowledge at the stipulated age, all without them lifting a finger or saying a word. Perhaps they think that God will speak to their kids about this... [rolling eyes]

 

[Flagg]

I am just jarred by the idea that you need to protect your children from naked people.

Ditto. When I was in France, I remember seeing full frontal nudity on billboards and the sides Parisian buses. Same with Australia.


You'd think if there was any harm in children seeing such things, it would have manifested already.


-S

 

[Persell]

I am just jarred by the idea that you need to protect your children from naked people.

Ditto. When I was in France, I remember seeing full frontal nudity on billboards and the sides Parisian buses. Same with Australia.


You'd think if there was any harm in children seeing such things, it would have manifested already.


-S

Generally nudity is no problem in europe, violence gets rated her much quicker than in the US though

 

[Jukashi]

You know, if you compare the statistics between France and England on these matters, it's quite interesting. England, of course, keeps such matters close to the chest, while the french stick up posters with naked women all over the place.


Now, according to the reports; the french have more sex than the english, per person... but, the proportion of people who have, what you might call, peculiar tastes, is higher in England than in France.


There's a similar thing in Ireland with alchohol. We drink more, yes, but other countries, somehow, have more people with drinking problems. Drinking is part of our culture, and so, we talk about it with each other.

 

[lowguppy]

When "normal" behavior is not made clear, abnormal behavior is more likely to develop. Given no compass to guide them at all, humans can come up with some pretty fucked up shit.


In Authochthon 2.0, we have no such problems. All children are implanted with proper behavioral protocols at birth, and any signs of deviancy are treated immediately. Out in the reaches however, where we do not impart these higher values, deviants roam free spreading dissonance wherever they go.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

...so runs the pamphlet from the Office of Public Information, carefully not mentioning the 7.8% rate of behavioral protocol rejection leading to brain death, and the 13.9% rate of significant damage to mental capabilities...


--Shadowrunners' Guide to Autochthonia

 

[Flagg]

damage to mental capabilities...

"Damage to mental capabilities", or "increased suitability for menial labor"?


-S

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Ssshh; they haven't unveiled the Gamma, Delta, and Epsilon castes yet...

 

[lowguppy]

Hooray eugenics!


At least then you know that you were made for menial labor, instead of being told all your life that you could be a rock star or astronaut, yet end up doing menial labor anyways.

 

[Flagg]

At least then you know that you were made for menial labor, instead of being told all your life that you could be a rock star or astronaut, yet end up doing menial labor anyways.

Shut up, Tyler.


-S

 

[lowguppy]

I am Jack's bored ass at work.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Genes have nothing to do with it--not with the original Gammas, Deltas, and Epsilons, at any rate.


 [sigh] Isn't Brave New World required reading any more?


 A dose of alcohol or other growth inhibitory at the proper developmental stage, and it doesn't matter what your genes are slating you for.

 

[lowguppy]

Oh I read it, just a long time ago. I mainly remember imagining the baby factories, and then seeing The Matrix and being like, Hey! of course, I was like Hey! the whole movie.

 

[Guest]

I've got a daughter.  A wonderful girl, but I don't think that she needs to be protected from naked people.  Educated, certainly.  Answer her questions, certainly, but naked isn't harmful.  Putting things in the proper context, yes, that is a real need.  The difference between art and porn.  A good explanation of what constitutes a relationship as opposed to mindless scrogging, yes.  But sex alone isn't harmful.  It's normal, it's natural, and she's going to be interested, probably before I'm really ready to accept it, but that doesn't mean I can shrik my responsibility as a parent to put things in the proper context for her.

See, that is where I have my issues with nudity where the kids might see. So far, neither of my little ones show any care nor interest. Sure, they see their own nipples, they see mine, they see their mother's rather huge tits when they stumble into the bathroom when she's changing without knocking. But that's family, and there is no form of sexual content at all. (So far, they've never broke in on us in a private moment, knock on wood.) But things like the new Exalted cover, or Heavy Metal magizine, or even some Maxim covers  are far different, and might start questions earlier than I'd like. I got a few more years of innocence and Polly Pocket. I'd like those to last as long as they can.


Someone mentioned violence, and that I didn't seem to care about that. That's blantaly wrong and stupid to think so. I don't play games like God of War or Resident Evil 4 when they are around for that reason. But I don't shelter them form it either. It's a violent world. They may at some point in their lives be forced to defend themselves. It's why I'm passing on what I know of martial arts. No problem with a boy they like (at the right age) making a pass, but I want them to be able to destroy the one they don't who doesn't understand no. I know I can't be there all the time. As a praent, that is probably the biggest fear I'll ever have.

 

[Jukashi]

I got a few more years of innocence and Polly Pocket. I'd like those to last as long as they can.

No offense intended, but don't you think that's a little dangerous? Where, precisely, do you stop? Or start, as the case may be.