Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martialart

[Synapse]

Re: Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martia

I don't really know about other styles, as I haven't seen them in play.


The Dawn in my party is who is constantly rambling that they should be the ultimate fighters, than how come the Sidereals get the "even-more-ultimate" martial arts.


/OFF

The dawn DOES get them. Sidereals also need a sifu for all SMAs.

 

[Plague of Hats]

Re: Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martia

I see them as suffering of "incredible clusterfuck" and "terrible deisgn"' date=' but speaking purely of balance, I don't think they're too off.[/quote']I really just cannot understand what you're trying to say here. The majority of existing Sidereal martial arts are incredibly poorly balanced, against each other and everything else. The more recent, high-Essence Solar Charms light the way to better design space, but they do so by being very unlike all of the older Sidereal martial arts that came before. Prominent among these differences is that these Solar Charms are weaker than the best combat options in the old Sidereal styles by orders of magnitude. With only a few certain Sidereal martial arts Charms you can take a steaming crap all over combat balance and dominate the field in ways even the un-errata'd Dreams Solar Charms did not.

I don't really know about other styles, as I haven't seen them in play.


The Dawn in my party is who is constantly rambling that they should be the ultimate fighters, than how come the Sidereals get the "even-more-ultimate" martial arts.


/OFF

The dawn DOES get them. Sidereals also need a sifu for all SMAs.

To learn quickly, yes. Sidereals can invent Sidereal martial arts, and that of course does not require tutelage.

 

[Kyeudo]

Re: Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martia

The dawn DOES get them. Sidereals also need a sifu for all SMAs.

As pointed out, they only need the sifu to learn SMA quickly. IIRC, A Sidereal can learn an SMA from a scroll, manual, or dreamstone tutor.

 

[Synapse]

Re: Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martia


Considering he has a sidereal in a party with a dawn, I hardly see that as an impediment

 

[Cryoseraph]

Re: Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martia


As to the original post, try to look at it from a mechanical standpoint first. If you would have required a 5 dot Sifu/Mentor to get Sidereal MA Training, then perhaps an Artifact could do the same. BUT it is then up to the ST to keep the background engaged. If you would have let him just 'montage away' his training under the tutor, then it would have been the same as an artifact teaching him. If the tutor would have required great feats of amazement, so too should the artifact.


Examples: To learn anything from Prismatic Arrangement of Creation, the artifact may need you or it exposed to vast amounts of essence or magical materials to correctly teach just one charm. Survive exposure to a Fire Aspect's Anima just to Learn Fire Aspect Exalt Ways, or cast one hundred different spells into it just to learn Spell Shattering Palm. Different styles would require different training. Citrine Poxes will likely expose you to diseases, Quicksilver Dreams would need exposure to Wyld energies and be fed Gossamer (hard before you learn how to handle it). Scarlet Patterned Battlefield may require the spilled bloods of numerous battlefields to power it up, or two-dozen ghosts of legendary generals for each lesson.


As for the strength of certain Sidereal Martial Arts, the flourish is always particularly strong on these guys, so it is good to fall back onto the mechanical descriptions and keywords, thin as they were at the start of Second Edition. For example, the 'trapped forever in what you've forced me to see' or being 'cursed to madness by being unable to sleep' are each an illusion and a compulsion based power, and there are charms to defend against that, and against all mental effects. Stunts can help as well (you can stunt DVs if you're desperate and the ST isn't a hard-ass about it, and NPCs can stunt some too).


Edit: In reference to the earlier post worried about Quicksilver Hand of Dreams Style and it's brokenness.


But when it all comes down to it: These are the end-goal powers for people, learning just one of the charms in a sidereal MA is to achieve a motivation on par with "Kill the Mask of Winters' or 'Take control of the Imperial Manse'. While doable for our heroes, it should be an endgame goal. Meanwhile, NPCs, if built comparable to PC xp, would need hundreds of years and tons of power to gain such skill, power that may be easier spent buying charms for other modes of buttkicking, sorcery, necromancy, time poured into extra artifacts or army-building, etc. Do you know why its always the old hermit who's the master of the Martial Art? Because he just may have given up everything else in his life to obtain such mastery, no friends, no family, no job or money. Instill THAT fact into a PC or two, and that would be epic.

 

[Lowkey]

Re: Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martia

As for the strength of certain Sidereal Martial Arts, the flourish is always particularly strong on these guys, so it is good to fall back onto the mechanical descriptions and keywords, thin as they were at the start of Second Edition. For example, the 'trapped forever in what you've forced me to see' or being 'cursed to madness by being unable to sleep' are each an illusion and a compulsion based power, and there are charms to defend against that, and against all mental effects. Stunts can help as well (you can stunt DVs if you're desperate and the ST isn't a hard-ass about it, and NPCs can stunt some too).

Thanks, we'll try to keep in mind that and see how it works out.

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

Re: Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martia


My only question is...why?


Seriously, a sifu, in my honest opinion, would be better. Is this player allergic to roleplaying? If so, he should play 4th edition or something...but, seriously, a sifu doesn't require committed essence, can't be stolen (more on this point later), destroyed with a mere Celestial level charm (Looking at you Earth Dragon Style), and would in all ways be more beneficial? Seriously, if he earns the respect of a sifu well enough to learn, he essentially has an Essence 8 ally, albeit not as available. The master-student bond is strong as hell in Exalted, especially in the martial arts world. I strongly suggest you read over Scroll of the Monk (I mean the fluff, not the Charms), and get a good feel of what it means to be a martial artist. An artifact not only cheapens the whole deal, but, honestly, would be screwing your player out of a valuable experience.


Also, on the note of stealing, should you implement your artifact...should such a thing exist, every Solar, Abyssal, and Green Sun Prince that hears of it will move the player pretty high on their kill list. And, do NOT let your player cop out with a 'it only works for MY incarnations' limitation. Any Twilight with half a brain can rewire an artifact. As with most Artifact 5's, this is a world shaping thing. The Thing Infernal would LOVE to have one of those.

 

[Indon]

Re: Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martia


Registered so I can put my two cents in here.

He wants to get Prismatic Arrangement of Creation Style and baiscly he wants a five dot version of the dreamscape tutor. Built by his first age incarnation so when if he died his next incarnation could learn the charms without having to beg a sidreale for it.

Workable, if you ask me, but needs more First Age Crazy. Solars know that they can potentially die of age, and late in the First Age they could easily become paranoid enough to want to become wholly self-sufficient for tutoring in their next incarnation. But why stop at an SMA?


Have an artifact that can tutor in any ability or charm the Solar had, instantly, by overwriting part of the user's soul with that of the ancient Solar. This is also how the artifact can teach SMA's, because it's not teaching them at all, it's grafting a part of the being that originally knew the charm into the artifact's user.


Possible consequences for use of the artifact include:


-Extra XP cost


-Outright possession by the 1st age Solar, GSP-style or otherwise


-Addiction (in conjunction with other consequences)


-Limit/Resonance increases


-Maximum limit decreases, ala Power From Darkness, or permanent Resonance : I don't imagine the Neverborn would take kindly to a 1st age Solar soul-grafting onto one of their servants!


-Loss of temporary and/or permanent WP


The Solars of the First Age were crazy powerful - emphasis on both words. Such a potent artifact can be as much a danger as a boon.

 

[Greenstalker]

Re: Artifact that allows the user to learn a sidreale martia

Registered so I can put my two cents in here.

He wants to get Prismatic Arrangement of Creation Style and baiscly he wants a five dot version of the dreamscape tutor. Built by his first age incarnation so when if he died his next incarnation could learn the charms without having to beg a sidreale for it.

Workable, if you ask me, but needs more First Age Crazy. Solars know that they can potentially die of age, and late in the First Age they could easily become paranoid enough to want to become wholly self-sufficient for tutoring in their next incarnation. But why stop at an SMA?


Have an artifact that can tutor in any ability or charm the Solar had, instantly, by overwriting part of the user's soul with that of the ancient Solar. This is also how the artifact can teach SMA's, because it's not teaching them at all, it's grafting a part of the being that originally knew the charm into the artifact's user.


Possible consequences for use of the artifact include:


-Extra XP cost


-Outright possession by the 1st age Solar, GSP-style or otherwise


-Addiction (in conjunction with other consequences)


-Limit/Resonance increases


-Maximum limit decreases, ala Power From Darkness, or permanent Resonance : I don't imagine the Neverborn would take kindly to a 1st age Solar soul-grafting onto one of their servants!


-Loss of temporary and/or permanent WP


The Solars of the First Age were crazy powerful - emphasis on both words. Such a potent artifact can be as much a danger as a boon.

There are heartstones prevents you from dying from old age or aging at all and considering solars are peak of combat (even the twilights) I don't think they had any fear from aything at first-age.