Artifact advice if you'd be so kind...

[Smeggedoff]

I'm thinking about a weapon, moonsilver, that can essentially perform a sacred hunt to steal the forms of other weapons.


looking for inspirations, for instance would it need to destroy the weapon or just touch/observe it?, does it have a special ability to destroy weapons?, can it steal the abilities of artifact weapons too?(this may get waaay too powerful without limits/drawbacks/added costs), how long can it remember forms? does it forget them at all?


as you can see I've had ideas myself I'm just looking for inspirations to fill in blanks, Ideas of how it would work etc


ideas for aesthetic effects that don't actually do anything will be really appreciated


and for abilities keep in mind I'm trying to keep this a 4 dot artifact, and I'm just brainstorming for now


thanks in advance for any help/opinions, even if it's just "that's stupid, you're stupid" (provided you keep it constructive and tell me why I'm stupid)


cheers

 

[Solfi]

... this idea makes me think of the Solar Circle spell that copies an opponent's technique ('Mirror Technique'-something or other? I forget...). It's in the White Treatise. Ok, so you're not mirroring an actual attack, but rather the weapon, but still.


Do you want the power to be usable in actual combat? If so, I don't think it should be able to destroy the opponent's Artifact weapon. Not at Artifact 4 anyways. If the power has a ritualistic component that means that the power is unusable under duress, then it's a different ball-game.


I gotta point out that I really don't like the idea of breakable MM:s at all though. Or at least not to the extent I've seen in recent canon. But that's just my opinion. The idea of a shape-shifter weapon that takes on aspects of an opposing weapon is pretty interesting, but it needs limiters - the easiest one being that it shouldn't be able to take on powers that exceed it's own rating. But then it gets trickier... Does its actual shape change, or just its properties? Should it be further limited in the scope of powers it may steal? Should it have a duration?


Personally, I'd find it interesting if the 'original' weapon was pretty useless, but it keeps the shape from its last transference of power permanently, unless under some condition, in which case it reverts to its original shape.


Or, if you want to amp up the power, and make it forgiving when it comes to the scope of powers it may steal, make the power work outside of the owner's control so that it takes on the properties of the last weapon it fought. Regardless of what kind of weapon it was (even if mundane).

 

[Smeggedoff]

that was my thought, if you were to break and steal an opponants weapon in combat he'd be buggered really


I don't really like breakable mm's either (I was really surprised that the DB earth style MA can break any MM weapons with eith 3 or 5 successes, I forget which)


yes it changes shape, it's moonsilver


I did consider a power which means you must spend some motes, spend so many rounds in combat with the chosen weapon (maybe physically clashing with it a number of times = to it's artifact rating) then you must defeat it's wielder, take if from him and spend a further period of time (hours, days or weeks) with the weapons touching, at the end of which the hunted weapon would either


a) shatter


b) go on living it's life


but the moonsilver weapon would gain the ability to spend essence to transform into a copy of it


with the distinct possibility that it can't steal abilities at all (just stats)

 

[Quchu]

I'll admit to not having actually read the thread in detail, but a brief skim gave me an idea of a Moonsilver weapon which, when activated, melts into a semi-solid pool of Moonsilver and swallows the target weapon, from which point the Artifact can emulate the swallowed weapon's traits.

 

[Ker'ion]

Have you seen the writeup for Proteus Gauntlets?


Try using that as a jumping point... and watch out for that cliff...


When emulating powers, make it charge a mote cost to the user or it could automatically change after each fight.  So, you fight a badass with a Grand Daiklave, your weapon is now said Grand Daiklave.  Then you get jumped in an alleyway and parry a dagger.  Oops, your Grand Daiklave is now a dagger.

 

[Persell]

I'd suggest making it's power-duplicating ability dependent on a short ritual, rather than having it work instantaneously- it'll be easier to deal with in play if you don't have to constantly adjust the character's combat stats every time he parries. Tie it's attunement cost to the size of its "library", maybe 1 mote per mundane weapon it knows, and (Rating x 2) motes for artifact weapons. That'll put a practical limit on how many things it can be, and thereby lessens the headache for the ST.


Alternately, rather than having it "learn" specific mundane weapon forms, you could just give it a pool of points that could be distributed among its stats, depending on what shape it takes.


I'd also sternly limit the kinds of powers it can "learn"- things like the Singing Staff should be outside its ken.

 

[Chaka]

Having an artifact 3 or 4 level weapon that can 'learn' weapon shapes and mimic them, thus allowing you to spend a couple of motes to change the weapon's shape, is awesome. I'd seriously draw the line at unique artifact powers.


For example, this is how I'd do it. Let's say you start off with it as a bog standard moonsilver daiklave. Ok, you fight a guy with a wrackstaff and that shape is somehow added to the artefact's library. Now, for a few motes, you can cause your weapon to melt from a moonsilver daiklave to a moonsilver wrackstaff. In my artefact, that'd be a speed 3, -X dv action, during which you can't parry with the weapon. Boom, you now have a wrackstaff. You can shapeshift the weapon at will as often as you like, as long as you have the motes to do so. The stunting possibilities are, in fact, awesome.


Now,I'd allow this for prettty much any basic artefact hand to hand weapon, and probably powerbows as well (though i think firewands might be a bit iffy.)


However, they'd be the basic weapon, and I wouldn't allow unique powers to be copied. For example, you want a grand daiklave, groovy. You can do it. But it can't mimic a Daiklave of Conquest (assuming you somehow have a Dawn caste using this thing, otherwise they couldn't use a DoC anyway) because that has extra magic powers. Similarly, you want it to mimic a Lightning Torment Hatchet and it'll look like one and fight like one, but no electric shocking mojo for YOU. Otherwise the artefact's horrendously overpowered.


I'd personally be inclined to make this one an Artefact 4, for sheer versatility and potential usefulness, especially for a martial artist with a few different styles, though it could also be good for an archer who wants a close combat option or someone who wants a big weapon for open combat but also a switchklaive for those intimate moments in darkened alleyways. I'd also treat all weapons stored as moonsilver, regardless of the material of the originals. As a last thing, i'd have it have two forms at the start: a basic weapon (probably daiklave) and something innocuous, like a large piece of jewelry or a belt. I suggest you check out Keychain of Creation, Secret's weapon Cluivnarihe seems to be able to shapeshift between bracelet, belt, daiklave and powerbow.


How does that take on it strike you?

 

[Smeggedoff]

I like that Chaka, it's a lot simpler (and more effective) than my idea


now, the gap in your mechanic (aquiring the form) I was considering that it must either clash with the weapon in combat a number of times equal to the artifact rating of the target (this also makes it harder to aquire ranged weapons)


or a special ability like the weapon having its own anima, x moes to activate the anima, perform a maneuver (stunted?) to have the anima engulf the opposing weapon, imprinting it onto the anima and allowing the weapon to use its form (and increasing the commited mote cost of the weapon)

 

[Solfi]

... as a matter of semantics, I'd call it 'aura' and not 'anima' if I used that (I know; picky picky) - The anima is really an expression of imperfect control over Essence (it bleeds out into a visual display), since exaltation is an 'unnatural' state for a mortal.


The idea of stunting with a weapon that changes shape are indeed awesome, and flurrying a weapon-shift mid-attack should probably (besides adding a DV penalty to the user) also add a penalty to the opponent, who must struggle to keep up with changing circumstances...


Another question for consideration - should there be an upper limit to the number of forms it may acquire? Also, I'm kind of partial to the idea that if attunement is lost, so is the library (meaning that a new owner must start anew to acquire shapes).

 

[Smeggedoff]

going by chakas post, the upper limit on forms is the amount of essence the user can or is willing to commit.


but what happens if the wepon is lost, the user is killed etc, does the weapon keep all its previous forms or are they erased?

 

[brennanhawkwood]

I'd be tempted to tie the number of forms to the wielder...maybe equal to their permanent essence.  If someone else attunes the weapon the learned forms are wiped and they start over.


As to how it learns the forms, this is a moonsilver artifact which says to me that it was originally designed for/by a lunar.  To learn a new weapon form the wielder must survive facing that weapon in combat.  


The problem with this idea of course is that it becomes very subjective.  You would want to exclude encounters that were not a real threat/challenge and you would need to deal with what 'survive' means...running away right away should count, but maybe getting away after several exchanges should?  All in all, I like this way of gaining new forms thematically, but its got problems in the execution.

 

[Haku1]

If you have the 2nd edition Lunar, take a peek at page 150.


The rules there for Lunar Blade Reconfiguration would work for the 'changes' if you want a 'bare-bones' changing ability, stat-wise.

 

[Smeggedoff]

I like the ideas so far, very helpful.


if people want some backstory.


(WARNING, WAR AND PEACE STYLE TEXT BLOCK APPROACHING!)


the artifact was made by a first age solar as an experiment and was truly shapable, composed of an alloy of a majority of moonsilver and small amounts of every other magical material, it would change into whatever you wanted provided you had the right mindset, but he could never get it to work, so he discarded it.


along comes his Lunar wife and finds the discard project and through Lunar Instinct can use it to its fullest potential, so he lets her keep it.


during the usurpation she uses it to try and protect her mate but to no avail, as she is cut down by the dragonblooded he lets out a howl of fury, takes up the artifact and as his anima erupts in fury he begins to use it to smite down droves of the betrayers.


He Attacks using such force the artifact, at the time in the form of a great bladed chain, began to break apart, great numbers of links flung far and wide, until finally, as his enemies lay dead and he too collapsed from his wounds with the reaining length of chain in his hand, tempered with fury and his love for his mate, but broken and left with only the ability to change into weapons.


*wall of text crits you for 4465 damage*


halfway through typing this I modified the background because the initial artifact before breaking reminded me of a 5 dot artifact dire chain that I wrote up that could change in to anything, but that had links in the forms of crowns and was called royalty..so now I might market this as a fragment of Royalty and suggest to the gm that I might try and reform it if I ever find out that it's just a fragment of its fromer self.


it's royalty chain form is too short to be used as a weapon but locks together to form a bracelet, necklace or belt with links shaped like crowns (depending on the size of the user), when a user attunes to it it takes the form of one weapon automatically that suits their personality (GMs discretion)


as an added note, a solar attuned to this weapon will have his anima alter slightly by the addition of a swirl of silver light, just a s a lunar attuned will have the addition of a swirl of gold to their anima.


if the lunar or solar has met their reincarnated (or original) mate this swirl will shift to resemble a part of their anima, while fitting the theme of the weilders anima

 

[Smeggedoff]

sorry for double posting


a recap


Duchess of Protean Grace, A Fragment of Royalty


Artifact 4


-Moonsilver artifact with 2 automatic forms, a small length of chain with links in the form of Crowns that can be worn as a piece of jewelry or clothing and one weapon, influenced by the wielders personality (GM Discretion)


-has the ability to engulf a weapon it is currently clashing with in its aura, making an essence imprint upon itself


- has the ability to transform itself into a moonsilver copy of any weapon imprinted upon it, but cannot copy unique powers


-may store a number of imprints equal to the users permanant essence


-alters the users anima aesthetically


this is a current bare bones sum up of the item so far, how does it sound? too powerful for 4 dot? not powerful enough? how about the working title?

 

[Chaka]

going by chakas post, the upper limit on forms is the amount of essence the user can or is willing to commit.
but what happens if the wepon is lost, the user is killed etc, does the weapon keep all its previous forms or are they erased?

That's not exactly what I meant. You commit essence to attune to the artifact as normal, and you spend essence (and perhaps willpower) to absorb new forms, and spend essence to shift the weapon, but the committed cost remains the same. I would be inclined to limit the number of shapes to (bearer's essence X2) or (artifact rating x2) if you want to have several different versions of the artifact, with each shape added over the limit overwriting an earlier one. This would not include the original weapon form the charm had to begin with, which is for want of a better analogy the artefact's 'spirit form'.


EDIT: I really like the idea of the artefact's memory being wiped upon attunement being broken, and would be inclined to include it in the weapon's design.

 

[Smeggedoff]

hmm, thinking about this "spirit form", even at GM's discretion that could vary wildly and thus the user could end up with a fairly potent weapon for free, any Ideas on how to normalise this?


I'm adding the first draft of the weapon to this post, feedback appreciated as I'd like to present this to my GM with my finished character soon


Duchess of Protean Grace, A Fragment of Royalty


Artifact 4


Attunement 6


this artifact was made by a first age solar as an experiment and was truly shapable, composed of an alloy of a majority of moonsilver and small amounts of every other magical material, it would change into whatever you wanted provided you had the right mindset, but he could never get it to work, so he discarded it.


along comes his Lunar wife and finds the discard project and through Lunar Instinct can use it to its fullest potential, so he lets her keep it.


during the usurpation she uses it to try and protect her mate but to no avail, as she is cut down by the dragonblooded he lets out a howl of fury, takes up the artifact and as his anima erupts in fury he begins to use it to smite down droves of the betrayers.


He Attacks using such force the artifact, at the time in the form of a great bladed chain, began to break apart, great numbers of links flung far and wide, until finally, as his enemies lay dead and he too collapsed from his wounds with the reaining length of chain in his hand, tempered with fury and his love for his mate, but broken and left with only the ability to change into weapons.


-Moonsilver artifact with 2 automatic forms, a small length of chain with links in the form of Crowns that can be worn as a piece of jewelry or clothing and one weapon, influenced by the wielders personality (May not be worth more than artifact 2 GM Discretion)


-has the ability to engulf a weapon it is currently clashing with in its aura, making an essence imprint upon itself, this requires a successful parry, blocked attack or aimed attack during which Duchess must make contact with the opponants weapon, upon making contact the weilder may reflexively spend 1 mote of essence to have duchesses aura engulf the weapon and make an imprint of the weapon on the aura, if the weapon is an artifact this will only make a partial imprint and this procedure must be repeated and number of times equal to the artifact rating the the weapon to be imprinted


- has the ability to transform itself into a moonsilver copy of any weapon imprinted upon it, but cannot copy unique powers. at any time the user of the weapon may spend 2 motes of essence and perform a speed 3, -Xdv action ,during which time the user may not parry, to transform Duchess into a copy of any weapon imprinted upon its aura. Duchess becomes a perfect moonsilver copy of the weapon in question (and due the the small amount of each magical material used in its contstruction an extra 1 mote may be spent suring transformation to "plate" Duchess and have it appear to be made from the correct MM, this layer is very thin however and will not stand up to attacks or parries) no special abilities of the weapon will be copied, mereley its appearance and physical statistics (apart from being made of moonsilver of course)


-may store a number of imprints equal to the users permanant essence


-a solar attuned to this weapon will have his anima alter slightly by the addition of a swirl of silver light, just a s a lunar attuned will have the addition of a swirl of gold to their anima.


if the lunar or solar has met their reincarnated (or original) mate this swirl will shift to resemble a part of their anima, while fitting the theme of the weilders anima


feedback will be rewarded with pictures of cookies (and if requested the recipe for a pretty rockin chocolate cake)

 

[Chaka]

Simple enough. limit the Spirit form to a weapon no greater than Artifact 3 that must be appropriate to the Exalt's skills, and with no powes beyond being an exceptional weapon (so you could have a baneclaw, but it wouldn't flex to disarm opponents). A daiklave or goremaul for a melee user, a powerbow for an Archer, some kind of thrown weapon (chakram or sky cutter?) for a Thrown specialist, and one form weapon for a martial artist (Mantis Users get to pick, i guess..)


Oh, another suggestion, I'd be inclined to allow for certain weapons that are meant to wielded paired or are often wielded paired that by spending a willpower with the transformation cost the artefact could split into two seperate weapons. Obviously nothing bigger than short daiklaves or hook daiklaves, but if you didn't there'd be no point in gaining forms for things like smashfits, god kicking boots, razor claws, etc.