Are prayers answered?- Getting the gods' attention

[Toptomcat]

So prayers appear in Yu-Shan as Ambrosia BAMFing into existance. All well and good if the prayer is 'you're so awesome, Uvanavu'- but what if the prayer is 'please help my family survive the winter', or even 'hey, there's a horrible demon down here about to do something that will directly harm your interests. Thought you'd like to know'? Does the intent and content of a prayer get anywhere in Yu-Shan, or what?

 

[Brickwall]

Gods hear the prayers that reach them, and process them subconsciously. Even little gods, in their sleep, hear prayers. Gods are highly inclined to answer prayers, as it means the people already praying to them will stay happy, healthy, and praying, not to mention spreading their worship.


Yes, gods do have the power to process the tons of prayers that come to them at any given time. The Immaculate Dragons are no less potent due to the constant stream in their heads.

 

[cyl]

Uh well that would be valid if most gods weren't lazy jerks trying to get away from their duties and responsabilities.

 

[wordman]

...that would be valid if most gods weren't lazy jerks trying to get away from their duties and responsibilities.

...but not necessarily from a source of free wealth. This is a key premise that is often overlooked in Exalted. The issue a "corrupt" spirit faces is: how do I keep getting all that ambrosia, while still slacking as much as possible? Or: how can I increase my supply of ambrosia by doing things I'm not supposed to be doing, while still looking like I am?


Just four facts provide the motivation for a huge array of different behavior from (and plots involving) spirits: a) prayers generate ambrosia, b) ambrosia is the currency of heaven, c) some spirits shirk their duties and d) getting audited by heaven really sucks.

 

[cyl]

Which is why most gods, I mean the important ones, delegate their responsabilities to their servants (lower spirits and elementals) while still getting the prayers.


Mortals do not pray when they are happy, they also pray because they are afraid, you just need to scare or threatens the locals, and prayers and ambrosia will continue to flow (remember the wood lord from the corebook comics).


Plus heavenly audits are no longer what they used to be, corruption and connections rule the control system and even the censors are slacking as much as they can.


It was about time that solars returned to tighten the ranks ! :twisted:

 

[Brickwall]

Being a god is like having a part-time job. Slack off if you want, but you don't get paid for days you don't come in. Gods like to get paid. Therefore, they maintain worship. Therefore, they answer prayers.

 

[cyl]

You missed my point on fear and praying apparently :roll:

 

[Brickwall]

Extortion is a lot more of a bother if you're powerful enough to grant prayers with 4 motes and a second of thought. Seriously, wouldn't you rather be enjoying the pleasures of Heaven or your Sanctum than going off and killing/maiming people? Only the fairly weak gods (no more than Essence 4, probably less) need resort to extortion of prayer. Of course, some, like Storm Mothers, make it their Modus Operandi, but most would find minor power expenditure a lot easier.


Less important spirits, like those of Essence 2-3, would be the most variable on this aspect. A good many of them haven't the capabilities to extort, or are of naturally kind nature, or have other methods of getting prayer (Immaculate Holidays, anyone?). Even the ones who extort prayer will grant it if the mood strikes them or it suits their desires. The end sum is that most gods grant prayers that reach them, such as ones by priests and with large sacrifices. It's not ubiquitous, which is why the Exalted spend a bit of time hunting down those who harm people, but prayer in a world with obvious gods would be much less common if it didn't get people stuff.

 

[JadedSmile]

...that would be valid if most gods weren't lazy jerks trying to get away from their duties and responsibilities.

...but not necessarily from a source of free wealth. This is a key premise that is often overlooked in Exalted. The issue a "corrupt" spirit faces is: how do I keep getting all that ambrosia, while still slacking as much as possible? Or: how can I increase my supply of ambrosia by doing things I'm not supposed to be doing, while still looking like I am?

just like Bernard Madoff!

 

[The zombie cat]

While gods hear all prayers it’s a bit like standing in the middle of a crowd, it comes out as a constant murmur. Occasionally a voice will rise above the rest and be understood.


The mechanic of the prayer roll (char + performance) dif (10-resorses value of sacrifice -1 for priests -1 if you have an appropriate ritual) I think that’s correct anyway. Represents the difficulty of getting herd above the general nois, as well as being favorably received. The god will then need to choose what to do about your information, this will vary from god to god. It’s usually less than you want but more than nothing, almost never is it showing up in person (for one gods don’t get instant travel to site of prayer).


As to the ease of extortion. What dose an organized crime boss do when he gets word that somebody is burning down the shops of his paying customers. Dead cultists don’t prey to gods so even an extortionist god will grant prayers when the fair folk raid is coming, it’s a lot easier than finding a new village to intimidate, that doesn’t already have a god intimidating it, or an immaculate presence, or a friendly solar,


Edward

 

[Brickwall]

The mechanic of the prayer roll (char + performance) dif (10-resorses value of sacrifice -1 for priests -1 if you have an appropriate ritual)

It starts at difficulty 7, with those same difficulty reductions.

 

[Mempo]

In the universe of Exalted, it is indisputable that prayers to the Gods are heard. Sometimes, they're even heard by beings other than the intended recipient, which can lead to scheming, sabotage, subterfuge, and outright poaching.


A good example of this is Solar Exaltation, actually - it usually occurs at a critical moment, when a candidate is on the brink of death, fighting against unwinnable odds. Said candidate may well be praying to whomever it is *they* venerate - but it is the Unconquered Sun who answers.


Abyssal Exaltation is an even better example of prayers being 'poached' by another being - a Deathlord is not a God, but they have a gift for showing up at a critical moment (even if it's one they happen to have engineered themselves, heh heh heh) to offer a bargain.


All that aside, in order for a deity to answer a prayer, they have to have three things:


Motivation: Praying to Han-Tha to spare you from a horrible death, for example, is likely to be ineffective. Or perhaps even make the situation worse.


Power to intervene: A forest God can't do much for you in, say, the open ocean. Likewise, one God might only be able to whisper advice, where another would throw thunderbolts from above.


The ability to understand what's wanted: This is perhaps the most overlooked part of the equation. A spirit's perception is immeasurably different from a Mortal's. They see too much, or too little. A Little God is barely aware of its surroundings, but it may comprehend more of a mortal's wants than a Celestial Incarna, many thousands of times removed from the world of Flesh. Yozis see the world through perceptions so flawed and alien that they may grant a prayer by turning the recipient into bronze, or causing a plague of burning vitriol, or sending a First Circle Demon to empty the surrounding countryside of some vital, but troublesome material... or any of a hundred other totally random actions.


The problem with prayers is often not that they aren't answered. The problem is that the answers are very rarely what you expect.