Alchemicals under powered?

[Dezeroth]

they are supposed to be primordial exalts much like infernals and abyssals but all it takes is an eclipse, moonshadow, or fiend to start taking a liking to the alchemical charm sets and start pumping the solar juices through them to out do the alchemical exalt


are there any house rules to juice them up to bring them on par with solars/abyssals/infernals? or even some errata that i just might have over looked.

 

[magnificentmomo]

Alchemicals are actually supposed to be the bottom of the celestial tier, not Solar tier like, well, Solars, Abyssals, and GSPs. You kind of jumped to the conclusion that they are Primordial in power because they come from Autobot. Think of them more as bridging the gap between the Celestials and DBs (who also come from a primordial).

 

[Dezeroth]

im still working on house rules to bring all the different types of exalts on par with each other, so say a solar starts out with a head start in power level but everyone can make it there eventually


i used to use the same kind of rules that came with dnd to turn a pseudo-dragon into a full fledged dragon, and many other critters like that. reason im posting though is to see if anyone else has done anything like that already

 

[magnificentmomo]

One of the first things you can do is give them the same dicecaps.


If you want Solars to start off ahead, don't mess with chargen, if you do, make everyone's chargen closer to Solar's.


To equalize crafting, give everyone a wonder-forging genius equiv (most already have something, but they are a little restricted in most cases).


Rule of thumb, Solar charms are generally a mote or two cheaper than others. So look at PD and other bread and butter charm costs, look and see if it has clear advantages for the extra cost, if not, make them about the same.


You can give everyone the same mote pools, IIRC, everyone's pools are smaller than Solars (except maybe gods, and the ridiculous motepools that are the DLs).


You get into a particularly weird place with Alchies because of charm installations. Just make vats or some other equivalent easily accessible.


Normalize xp tables between the splats, but remember if your exalt gets charms from attributes or abilities. Also, training times I guess.


There is also the weirdness of access to MA and Sorcery. Make your pick if you want to let everyone get to the same level there.


I'm not necessarily advocating this, but if you are into it then go for it.


If you want to be minimalist, and not mess with things too much, I would just do the Mote pools, dice-caps, and XP.

 

[wordman]

Random, not-very-well considered idea for alchemicals:

• Eliminate slots
  
• Eliminate arrays
  
• Eliminate installation costs
  
• Allow alchemicals to "learn" as many charms as they like. All charms are "installed" at all times.
  
• Only 2*Essence charms can actually be active at once.
  
• Only active charms can be cast.
  
• Any combination of active charms can be used like a Combo in a single round, without needing to learn the specific combo.
  
• Alchemicals can deactivate a charm with a free action.
  
• Alchemicals can activate a charm (transformer style) by spending a miscellaneous action with a Speed of 4 plus the charm's usual installation cost in motes (ie. a charm that would usually have a 1m installation cost can be activated with a Speed 5 misc action.
  
• Alternatively, Alchemicals can activate a charm (transformer style) reflexively by spending motes equal to the charm's usual installation cost.

The end result should be that alchemical charms become even more flexible, but alchemicals have to pay (in either time or motes, their choice) to swap between them. They will also have a more limited selection of charms at any given time, but can combine those they have active much better.


They'd also look cooler.

 

[Vikingnewt]

well, what is the problem? we already have the gsp's solars and the damn abyssywissywoo's at ub4r level.


can anyone please explain the obsession that they should all be of equal power?


im guessing the autobots are pretty "easilly" manufactured by aut himself - making them numerically potentially on a par with the dragon blooded, with access to charms and stuffs that exceed the DB on an individual basis.


im running a DB game tomorrow - continuing the story in whitewall of all places... running a DB game makes the anathema there a potent threat requiring teamworks and stuff instead of just rock paper charms.


im also in the process of designing a cyceline douchebag to stalk and mess them up. let just hope the players actually learn how to use the reflexives properly instead of relying on kame-hame perfect defense.


different powerlevels is what makes the damn game fun.

 

[Mr. S]

I've always been of the opinion they should have been terrestrial power level.

 

[MrMephistopheles]

well, what is the problem? we already have the gsp's solars and the damn abyssywissywoo's at ub4r level.
can anyone please explain the obsession that they should all be of equal power?


im guessing the autobots are pretty "easilly" manufactured by aut himself - making them numerically potentially on a par with the dragon blooded, with access to charms and stuffs that exceed the DB on an individual basis.


im running a DB game tomorrow - continuing the story in whitewall of all places... running a DB game makes the anathema there a potent threat requiring teamworks and stuff instead of just rock paper charms.


im also in the process of designing a cyceline douchebag to stalk and mess them up. let just hope the players actually learn how to use the reflexives properly instead of relying on kame-hame perfect defense.


different powerlevels is what makes the damn game fun.

I don't get the mentality either. It almost feels like some sort of MMO mindset sort of thing. One thing about trying to house rule stuff when it come to Alchemicals to boost them is that people need to be careful they don't royally screw it up. All the things that mechanically balance Alchemicals on the low end of the Celestial tier is arguably more complicated due to balance factors like modularity. So messing with it can quickly make a mess of things.

 

[Vikingnewt]

All the things that mechanically balance Alchemicals on the low end of the Celestial tier is arguably more complicated due to balance factors like modularity. So messing with it can quickly make a mess of things.

agreed in principle, but we all know that WW's ideas of playtesting and balance involve attaching names to putty and slinging them at the wall.


the powerlevels are about right for pretty much everything but some (like WGM) need some major help to be anything but a "take a walk on the wyld side" adventure with monochromatic schwarzeneggers.

 

[magnificentmomo]

I'm not of the mentality to white-wash everyone powerwise, I was just trying to answer a question.

 

[MrMephistopheles]

All the things that mechanically balance Alchemicals on the low end of the Celestial tier is arguably more complicated due to balance factors like modularity. So messing with it can quickly make a mess of things.

agreed in principle, but we all know that WW's ideas of playtesting and balance involve attaching names to putty and slinging them at the wall.


the powerlevels are about right for pretty much everything but some (like WGM) need some major help to be anything but a "take a walk on the wyld side" adventure with monochromatic schwarzeneggers.

Considering who's baby Alchemicals 2nd edition was. No it was decidedly NOT "attaching names to putty and slinging them at the wall."

 

[Vikingnewt]

i meant it as a usually, tbh balance between the various exalt types is only important for the infernal/solar/abyssal since they are the same.


everything else has different and should stay as such, my groups dragonblooded are currently shitting themselves at the thought of finding more snow ghosts... and all they have done is seen them up till now.

 

[MrMephistopheles]

i meant it as a usually, tbh balance between the various exalt types is only important for the infernal/solar/abyssal since they are the same.

Not really. For things like the mechanics and fluff to make sense. It means that ALL exalt types must be balanced within where they all fall in relation to each other. It's just as important how Sidereals, Lunars,etc all are balanced as it is how Solar tier exalts co exist.


My point was. All the factors in how Alchemicals find their spot at the bottom tier of Celestial Exalt the way Solars exist at the top tier are arguably more complicated than how other Exalts are balanced. So caution needs to be exercised in attempts(for reasons beyond me) to take an MMO approach and "balance" all the exalt types. Because you might end up tinkering with some piece of Alchemical mechanics with unforeseen consequences.