Abyssal Exalted- Do they measure up?

[malhimweaver]

I was reading some whining on RPG. net about the Abyssals, and how most people don't seem to like the fact that deathknights are  the servants of Oblivion and want to end all Creation.


It sort of seemed to be along the lines of " Abyssal powers are cool, but I want mine to wear pink and give candy to children!"


Whats is your opinion? Personally I love the Abyssal book, its theme, and its highly detailed setting of the Exalted underworld. Then again, I was also a person who loved Wraith, and Abyssals is somewhat  perserving that wonderful world.


Also, Infernal Exalted anyone? Who else wants to see a book about those guys? I know I do.  But I also know White Wolf has been severly toning down the Infernal influences in their books since an incident in West Virginia where a couple freaks killed a family in the name of the Sababt.   Oh well, at least we still got Path of Screams for mage right?

 

[Hanat-Osul]

I think it's spelled "mescaline."  Not a big deal, just FYI.


... as for your question: anybody who thinks "Abyssal powers are cool" but doesn't want to deal with the spiritual & emotional blowback of using them doesn't understand what they're dealing with.  You cannot truly think Artful Maiming Onslaught is "cool" unless you understand that cutting off someone's arm is a horrific thing to do, and the fact that they have magical powers intended specifically to do that makes them horrible people.


When I make Abyssals, I try to give them a fucked-up history: violence, violation, and vengeance.  Nobody becomes a harbinger of Creation's undoing because they're a little sad or angry sometimes.  You have to earn that shit... in the worst way possible.


Infernals are an interesting concept, too.  I dunno if I'd like to see a whole book on 'em... but why the hell not?  If they make one, I'll buy it off drivethrurpg.

 

[Flagg]

I was reading some whining on RPG. net about the Abyssals, and how most people don't seem to like the fact that deathknights are the servants of Oblivion and want to end all Creation.

I haven't heard much, if any, complaint around here. In fact, the Abyssal book is one of the highest rated in our book review section.

It sort of seemed to be along the lines of " Abyssal powers are cool, but I want mine to wear pink and give candy to children!"

There seems to be a trend among a large body of roleplayers where it's desireable to completely subvert the theme and intent of a particular type of character and/or make ridiculous combinations of character-types. I think this is largely borne out of the mistaken notion that this, in and of itself, is somehow sophisticated roleplaying to the nth degree, and the height of cleverness.

Also, Infernal Exalted anyone? Who else wants to see a book about those guys?

I'd love to. Not holding my breath though.


-S

 

[Jakk Bey]

Wah, frippin' wah.  


Whining is exactly that.  They like the beefed up Charms, the extra goodies, but not the cost.  


Vast cosmic power, little tiny living spaces.  


Folks who whine about the limitations of Abyssals identify themselves as inveterate Munchkins with little idea of balanced play, or anything out of their limited view of gaming. They also touch themselves inappropriately, and probably have more Bauhaus in their possession than is neccessary, and probably have a few Madness albums tucked away where they think no one will ever look.  Further, they probably are all John Birchers and should be watched, preferably with a baseball or cricket bat in hand--lacrosse sticks are too flimsy.  


Which is pretty much why I keep the heck away from RPG.net*.  I find the stench of Twinking too prevelant, and the noisome stink of narcissism and thinly disguised misanthropy rises each time I've given them any chance to redeem themselves.


*Any of the ECR crew that also post there, be assured that I'm not talking about you.  You're cool.  Until you pull that "Pink Abyssal" crap...then it's open season...

 

[Flagg]

Why is it, do you think, that the various Exalted forums each seem to have a different character?


I'm not too familiar with RPG.net, but it obviously has it's own flavor. The WW forums have their own....quirks. I think I lack the proper perspective to  really qualify this place, but it's certainly unlike the others.


Why do these forums, which are all open to the public, each attarct a different sort of crowd?


-S

 

[Hanat-Osul]

It's all in the people, comrade.  I came here, for instance, through Forn Clakes; saw him on that Frappr map they put up over on the WW forums, and he led me here.  If not for him, I wouldn't be here assailing y'all's ears...


We could probably do some kind of exhaustive 6-degrees-of-separation thing to find out how each member came to find this place, but we'd need some grant funding for that shit.

 

[Flagg]

Yes, but what I'm getting at is, what mechanism is at work to attract particular types of people to particular sites?


I hear comments all the time about how "People on site A are B, and people on site X are Y. This site is Z".


However, what's stopping the B people from B'ing up site X?


Follow?


-S

 

[Hanat-Osul]

The personalities of the founding members must have a big impact - which might explain why us ECR kids tend to be more rational, critical, etc. than kids at other sites.  You and Jakk (not to mention memesis, QC, Fruan, and a number of others) are quick to call bullshit & usually quite accurate in your analyses, so the bar for comments and submissions is much higher.  We also have a nasty-ass sense of humor 'round here... which I attribute entirely to you, ya filthy mick.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Preponderance of one type over another.


And how the Mods approach their job as another.  Just like a bar.  You put out your sign and folks wander in.  After a while, you get a crowd that either mixes well together, or there's a ruckus--and after a few ruckusi, you get folks who get tired of the rumbles, and either move on, or act to defend their turf.  Or the management looks to kick out some folks, and that sends a message to the folks who remain.  


Management has  a lot to do with it.  WW polices their forums to encourage the widest net possible--and the folks who stay there, like how easy it is to be  seen as brilliant, when you're compared to the mob scene there. They troop in, remove articles, and users, who muck up their hits per hour count and miight offend the Great Herd of demographical kine that they've gathered.  


The Old EC might have attracted a different crowd if Yoshi had moderated TSJ and Little Joe more.  Those fellas gave the forums their own flavor, and the crowd that stuck around, could take the flames--those who couldn't or didn't like it, left.  


I'm not a big fan of the Wiki.  Not that those folks are bad people, but folks the atmosphere of kindly interference is a bit much--when anyone can act as a moderator and remove posts, then it gets to be a very sedate and moderate place.  Kind of boring too, in my opinion.  


Don't get me wrong, folks at the Wiki do some nice stuff, but it is primarily a spot for burgeoning designers and writers to exchange ideas.  They aren't so much about discussion, and that's the Wiki formula.  Post up an article, get feedback.  Repost article.  Not so much about thread discussion.


So, I post up large articles there, and that's pretty much it.  Their discussions are a bit too sedate to my taste.  


WW has far too many folks posts, and that means the Laws of Median Intelligence drops its lead bar of demographics on the forums--especially coupled with how they moderate their forums.  RPG.net encourages a particular kind of Twink as well--because they'll pay for the privilege to post.  F8al.com is run by terribly self involved fella who runs his vanity site with aplomb to talk more about the glory of him.  And folks who stick around, either get on board, or they find communities that suit them better.


Not so much that folks are attracted to one forum or another, as much as drift.  Folks try out a site, either like it, or they don't, and move till they find a better fit.  Me, I'm a Farker.  Not so much about the Something Awful forums.


It's in part how you form your community as much as the folks who are active in it.

 

[Samiel]

With respect to the topic:


I find that attitude strange: I actually love the Abyssal theme, but I'm not too gone on their charms. Their Necromancy, on the other hand, is just great. It's the same reason I always loved the Tzimisce in the old Vampire.


With respect to the conversation:


Funny thing. I used to check out the old EC for game material, but by the time I got to the place the forum wasn't really.. happening. I was disappointed when the place closed down because it was a cool resource (I liked the merits/flaws especially).


When I found the ECR, I actually didn't sign straight on, and strange as it sounds, I think it had a lot to do with the colour scheme. I find the sky-blue a bit banal, so I think it reflected badly on me as a first impression. Coming back a few months later, I joined up to give it a try, and found that I could change it. It was only then that I actually looked at the forum and saw that it was good.


It doesn't take long to get the feel of a forum. Either you wind up after the first post with someone wrtng liik dis for no good raisin, or someone starts flaming or advertising viagra.


If none of that happens, it's worth a look. Next up is the demographic you find on the forum. I think most of the people here are the more down-to-earth gamers, in that our settings tend to have some depth to them instead of being cut-outs from a movie with no foundation. There is support and admiration here for good character backgrounds, and while munchkinry is invariably an element of Exalted, we appreciate some personality.


It doesn't take more than a few threads to notice this trend, and it's not for some. I'd say that the forum is the way it is because a group of people (the "Old Guard" from the EC, from the looks of things) came together to make a forum they liked, and they had set the tone before others came to join.


Still: It would be interesting to see how many people join, post once, and then never come back. They are the lost eggs of the ECR, the ones that didn't like the feel or didn't think they'd enjoy the themes here.

 

[Forn Clakes]

It's all in the people' date=' comrade.  I came here, for instance, through Forn Clakes; saw him on that Frappr map they put up over on the WW forums, and he led me here.  If not for him, I wouldn't be here assailing y'all's ears...[/quote']
Sorry everyone, my bad... :wink:


~FC.

 

[Flagg]

Still: It would be interesting to see how many people join, post once, and then never come back. They are the lost eggs of the ECR, the ones that didn't like the feel or didn't think they'd enjoy the themes here.

Take a look at the memberlist, sorted by post count. The large majority of the people who have made accounts here have not posted at all. I'm not sure exactly why they bothered, though I guess the ability to change the forum skin is benefit enough.


-S

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Huh. So there's something like 30-40 people at any given period who browse this forum with any regularity...


 Quality, not quantity indeed.

 

[Flagg]

Where did you get those numbers?


PS- malhim: sorry for the threadjack.


-S

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Lots of fuzzy data and extrapolations a statistician would have a stroke over...


 Personal anecdotal observations of posters, non-posting members, and the occasional guest on the forums, if you really must know. Though I don't think I'm off by more than half an order of magnitude either way.

 

[Flagg]

Just to get this thread back on the tracks, here's what people on this site have said about the Abyssals book:


http://patternspider.net/exalted/l ... eview&id=4


-S

 

[Kyrn]

To take it back off track, I first came to EC for the submissions.  Custom charms, combos, artifacts and the like.  Okay, especially the artifacts.  I stayed for the abuse.  I got chewed out by TSJ, saw the faulted reasoning in my post, and thought, "Hey, that's a first.  These people seem pretty intelligent."  


The difference between ECR and WW forums is similar to Shadowland vs. Dumpshock forums.  


On topic, I always thought that being bound to this big scary guy with the really cool name or being perpetually on the run from him, trying to do good but always killing unborn babies was the cool part of Abyssals.  Resonance is awesome, and First and Forsaken Lion is my Abyssal's hero.  I mean, come on!  His background is the prototype from which cool Abyssal games are made.  He's all dark and scary with cool powers, fights his master, goes through a torture scene SO COOL that Neph refuses to share it, and then he's back, only with even cooler toys and more angst.  First and Forsaken Lion, now with more angst!  


Sounds like a tagline for Neph's new line of cola.

 

[Morninglight]

Abyssals make cool antagonists, but I'm too happy-happy, joy-joy to play a Goth kid's wet-dream.


To the other thread topic, I came here in search of custom charms and just decided to stay, and post various characters for approval of other various people.

 

[Flagg]

Well, my question wasn't so much "Why do you visit this site?", it's more like "How and why do different sites develop a different demographic?"


-S

 

[Kyrn]

I meant to imply but apparently left out that the Exalted Compendium and its current incernation possess both custom content in the form of charms and artifacts and vibrant and active forums.  I think that attracts a certain demographic that is interested in both the content and discussing a wide variety of subjects, where as the WW forums are just forums, and the wiki is primarily just content.  Are there any other websites with this combination?  Oh, and EC® also has good reference material in the format chart for all the published charms.  That's just plain useful.  


The other consideration is one that has already been put forth:  the unmoderated nature of the proceedings here and at the original EC.  The debates that arose in the old off-topic area were epic.   I personally learned a lot about philosophy from the thread about absolute morality vs relative morality at the old EC.  I look forward to more stimulating debates here, and I know I won't find them at the WW forums.  Just debates about how cool Borgstrom is and why they all want to bear her children for no reason that  I can discern.  


Btw, is that the proper spelling for "bear her children?"  I can't remember if it's bear or bare.  Damn it.

 

[Flagg]

"bear"


-S

 

[Kyrn]

Thank you.

 

[Lotus1]

wow i feel sorta outta place, everyone here is a fuckin bard, you guys tell huge ass tales and use crazy big words, i guess i am sorta the black sheep of the forum no?

 

[Kyrn]

Was it combination or demographic that threw you for a loop?  Or was it when I misspelled incarnation?  Incernation.  Stupid fingers not having proofreading circuitry yet.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Lotus--Yes, we are all bards here.  And we all took the Flaw: Flock of Minstrels which you'd need the old EC Archives to see.  You've stumbled upon our secret spawning grounds.  And now, we must all acquire field hockey sticks to beat upon you with...


I call dibs on the big chested brunette.  She's limping, which means she can't chase me for too long...