2nd ed Demo... wha?

[Flagg]

Disadvantage: Speed system means players must take care to count when they next act.

It's not all that hard. Each player can print up a quick two-column spreadhseet (or just use lined paper):


The first column is numbered (say, 1-100), and each row represents one "tick".  Each time the player takes an action, he blocks off the number of ticks that action will use up.


The ST counts down ticks, and when he gets to the player's next empty tick, the player speaks up, and declares his actions. Rinse and repeat.


It may sound a little complicated as I just explained it, but it's not. It's very fast.


-S

 

[Samiel]

Actually that's a good one..


As a variation to use less paper and tablespace, the ST could keep a copy, and mark the initials of a character next to their next available tick. Or, print up a large A3 copy, pin it to the table, and have everyone use a monopoly-piece and move it to their next tick after resolving their current one.


Yay for the environment!


Thanks Still, that's probably what I'll use.

 

[Persell]

It is possible, but not guranteed, that I will have my copy of 2nd ed. before Monday. If I do I'll let you know about "Social Combat" and Charms in regards to initiative.

 

[Samiel]

Before Moday, eh? Cheating, eh?


Although if all goes well for me I might have access to my copy with similar expediency. It is all contingent on the book order in our shop actually arriving before Monday, and containing copies of the Corebook, neither of which are garaunteed. But working in a family RPG shop means that if they do arrive before Monday, I can read at my leisure.


Here's hoping.


..


/me Hopes

 

[lowguppy]

We haven't had a huge problem with combat taking forever under the current system. Obviously the more partcipants and the more extra action charms flying around the trickier it gets, but the most time consuming thing seems to be adding up dice pools, and 2e doesn't seem to solve that. Even eliminating defensive pools, you still have to keep track of defense values that seem to be just as variable. I'm looking at coming up with a better weapon table that lets you keep track of your dice pool easier, and includes dodge pools, and parry pools for each weapon.

 

[Samiel]

The suggestion that people should keep regularly updated totals of all common combat actions should be taken seriously. Just like WW prints them in the books: the Accuracy in Character writeups in the supplements refers to the total dice pool rolled.


That way, when you want to hit the guy many times, you just look at the number and start subtracting dice.

 

[lowguppy]

Yeah, the problem I find is that the character sheets try to cram too much onto page one. I've downloaded a variety of exalted sheets and I've concluded that trying to include both charms and weapons on page one makes both record fields utterly useless. The best sheet I've got is a lunar one which has about 10 well detailed weapon slots on the front, and the whole back side is dedicated to gifts, forms, and charms. Oddly enough, I find that lunars tend to have the fewest charms, and they often don't need extra description (DBT, Ox body). Good character sheets cut down on the time wasted doing math or looking up charm details in the book(s).


We also use alternate dice splitting rules that are a lot easier, and don't require you to declare how many ways you're splitting, you just take a -2 when you declare you are, and -2 to each subsequent roll.

 

[Samiel]

Voidstate's Sheet is the best. And if you use Anathema (Compatable with Linux! Run java -jar anathema.jar), it outputs the sheet in a voidstate format with all of the values pre-calculated: running speeds at the wound levels, knockdown values, anima banner table, etc.


It's an amazing sheet, although it's in two parts. Take a looksee, and then use anathema and see what comes out.

 

[Persell]

I see no way out of the botching problem, but I hardly see that as much of a loss. The super-badass-dodging is probably still going to be possible. Remember that there are going to be Dodge Charms, and WW has said that ALL Abilities will have Excellencies, at a bare minimum.
-S

Correct. You can't botch a dodge (and that is also fine with me). And yes, every ability has five generel Excellencies which are prereqs for the specialized charms. Some of the Dodge Excellencies let you roll a few extra dice and add the successes to the DV. Works fine for me. There are other ways of improving DV which I can't remember at the moment.

 

[Flagg]

FIVE Excellencies? I thought there were three?


-S

 

[Persell]

I don't have the book with me right now and I didn't read it very carefully when I had. But from what I recall there were Essence Overwhelming, Triumphant, Resurgent, Infinite and one more. The topmost had an Ability 5, Essence 4 prerequisite. And I can't remember the exact game mechanics other than one of them required committed essence. I think it looked very interesting. And with those five there are lots more charms to chose from now, than we are used to. I think it's possible to diversify much more.

 

[Persell]

There are only three excellencies for each ability.

 

[Persell]

Right now I will, of course, stubbornly hold to my case. But when I get home tomorrow I will check it and maybe get back to you tomorrow evening. I may be mistaken, it just looked that way.

 

[Master Chris]

When you operationalise traits such as strength, dexterity, charisma, and manipulation you invite a system that resolves competitive actions with dice rolls.


Personally, I think 'social combat' should mirror normal combat. ie. dice roll + stunts. Which is to say, the player 'role plays' the interaction and if they do their character well and come up with good replies and what not then they are awarded either extra dice to roll (like a stunt) or raw successes.


Otherwise, you could have a scenario in which a player with a silver tongue whose character has his social stats all at 1 can out-talk a less savvy player whose social stats are all at 5. It isn't good roleplaying but it can happen. If a player has sacrificed his combat skills in order to make a diplomatic character, they deserve a mechanical advantage to the players who didn't. That said, it's all about roleplaying, so that should play an important part in proceedings. That's why I like my system;


Dice + Stunts in all things.

 

[Persell]

As to social conflicts I almost never roll dice. Once in a while they may roll for some situation where no roleplaying is involved ("I hit the bars looking for information on that shipment of drugs" for instance. Sometimes that would result in the scene were the info was found, other times there wouldn't be time for it). Most often I just compare stats and decide the result. If the players use charms they will probably achieve some level of succes.


When roleplaying I just let them talk their way out of anything and then take their stats into consideration. If they are well off socially, the NPC's listen more to them and are more likely to agree. I never never never let them resolve a social encounter just by rolling dice, where a scene of roleplaying can be run instead.

 

[Persell]

Ok. There are, as you said QC, only three Excellencies per ability. But any of those three is a prerequisite for two other general charms.


So:


Essence Overwhelming (basic die-adder)


Essence Triumphant (basic succes-adder)


Essence Resurgent (basic reroll)


Then there is Infinite (Ability) Mastery where you reduce the mote cost for the Excellencies for one scene. This is an Ability 4/Essence 3 charm. And the (Ability) Essence Flow where you can invoke the Excellencies as innate powers rather than charms. This is an Ability 5/Essence 4 charm.


So three Excellencies, but five in the tree all in all.

 

[Flagg]

And the (Ability) Essence Flow where you can invoke the Excellencies as innate powers rather than charms.

And the purpose of this is to circumvent the "1 Charm per turn" rule? But 2nd Ed. doesn't have turns...?


-S

 

[Persell]

The example they bring is that you can invoke an Excellency with a Combo without it being in the Combo. I think it is still one charm/instance.

 

[Fruan]

And the (Ability) Essence Flow where you can invoke the Excellencies as innate powers rather than charms.

And the purpose of this is to circumvent the "1 Charm per turn" rule? But 2nd Ed. doesn't have turns...?


-S

In Second Ed you can only activate 1 charm per action, rather than per turn, without a combo. So if you take an action with a speed of 5, on those five ticks you're only allowed to use a single charm (but use it as many times as you want, obviously).


Combos then allow you access to a group of charms across the same timespan.

 

[Azure Hand]

well, after reading those 3 pages of rules battles and ppl swaying this way or that way toward what rules works better here and there and how this is better or how that is a pain in the butt, i just want to remind you all of the number one rule in any kind of pen and paper game, and it is that there are no rules ! at all !


you make the changes to the things you see fit, a player could tell me "hey it's written this way in the book" and i would just reply "no sorry, i find that unbalanced for my game so no luck here, you guys stick with my way of things"


heck, they even mention that fact in the 1ed of the exalted core book, new system will come and go as time goes by, nothing is ever static, ppl make changes to different aspect of the game and find what works better with them here or there.


my 2 talent of jade

 

[Persell]

well, after reading those 3 pages of rules battles and ppl swaying this way or that way toward what rules works better here and there and how this is better or how that is a pain in the butt, i just want to remind you all of the number one rule in any kind of pen and paper game, and it is that there are no rules ! at all !
you make the changes to the things you see fit, a player could tell me "hey it's written this way in the book" and i would just reply "no sorry, i find that unbalanced for my game so no luck here, you guys stick with my way of things"


heck, they even mention that fact in the 1ed of the exalted core book, new system will come and go as time goes by, nothing is ever static, ppl make changes to different aspect of the game and find what works better with them here or there.


my 2 talent of jade

We all know that.


This is a discussion. Discussions with people not of your opinion or with other experiences tend to help you see stuff you wouldn't have seen yourself.

 

[memesis]

well, after reading those 3 pages of rules battles and ppl swaying this way or that way toward what rules works better here and there and how this is better or how that is a pain in the butt, i just want to remind you all of the number one rule in any kind of pen and paper game, and it is that there are no rules ! at all !
you make the changes to the things you see fit, a player could tell me "hey it's written this way in the book" and i would just reply "no sorry, i find that unbalanced for my game so no luck here, you guys stick with my way of things"


heck, they even mention that fact in the 1ed of the exalted core book, new system will come and go as time goes by, nothing is ever static, ppl make changes to different aspect of the game and find what works better with them here or there.


my 2 talent of jade

We all know that.


This is a discussion. Discussions with people not of your opinion or with other experiences tend to help you see stuff you wouldn't have seen yourself.

This may be true.  However, the reminder is important to those who seem to forget this.  For example:


"Social combat will prevent me from using roleplay to resolve social situations".  People who post this (and many actually have) are forgetting the Golden Rule.

 

[Flagg]

"Social combat will prevent me from using roleplay to resolve social situations".  People who post this (and many actually have) are forgetting the Golden Rule.

I don't think anyone here ever forgets the Golden Rule, it's just so obvious that it's not worth talking about. If the answer to every complaint with the game is "change things as you see fit", it pretty much makes all discussion pointless.


I'd preface every post I make with "I know I can Golden-Rule this, BUT...",  however that would get tedious very fast.


-S

 

[memesis]

"Social combat will prevent me from using roleplay to resolve social situations".  People who post this (and many actually have) are forgetting the Golden Rule.

I don't think anyone here ever forgets the Golden Rule, it's just so obvious that it's not worth talking about. If the answer to every complaint with the game is "change things as you see fit", it pretty much makes all discussion pointless.


I'd preface every post I make with "I know I can Golden-Rule this, BUT...",  however that would get tedious very fast.


-S

Then why do people act like they have forgotten it?

 

[Gtroc]

I think the argument is mostly over whether or not the canon rules encourage the kind of game various posters like or dislike. hmm...not sure if that sentence made sense, I sure hope so as it was quite brilliant in my mind. unfortunatly it seems worded awkwardly. if anyone can clarify better than me please do.  :?