[2E] Twighlights anima power too strong?

The twighlights anima power is...

  • overpowered?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • well-balanced?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
S

Sorrow

New Member
So I have read the twighlights anima power and I wondered if people here think it is too powerful.


I have to say i haven't played the second edition yet and that's why I won't vote for now.


It seems though a bit overpowered to me as in better than the dawn cast one, but it certainly isn't broken.


You are free to comment anything you like but I would prefer if you didn't vote until you had some experience with the 2nd edition system.
 
I voted for well balanced.


As long as you have to spend motes for it, it quite frankly sucks. 5 essence for a few levels of extra protection (between 3 and 5 for most pcs)... meh.


As soon as the anima banner flares it is nice to have but still not that uber, it protects a sorcerer from weak blows, those of mortals or the last blow of a flurry. that's it.


even at essence 5 it even just negates the damage of a daiklaive. this isn't going to save your life often, you still better have a good armour or don't get hit in the first place.


on the other hand... the often dissed dawn anima power is a very deadly offensive tool in mass combat. an essence 5 dawn can make elite troops run by staring at them and growling a bit. the same elite troops would probably kill a twilight relying on his anima to save him.


yes that is not a fair comparison, just pointing out that stuff is not always the way it looks on the paper.
 
If a Twilight is relying solely on her anima power to keep her alive, she won't stay so for very long.


 Using it to supplement good artifact armor and defensive charms, especially once the character hits Essence 3 (and about 100-150 xp overall)? It makes her nigh unkillable.


 I wouldn't say it's broken--it's Exalted, after all--but my main concern at chargen was a character that was most likely to survive combat, I'd pick a Twilight.
 
What does it do in 2E?  I don't have my book handy but was looking for overpowering twinky characters that can rule the world with an Iron fist... :)
 
Re: Twighlights anima power too strong?

Sorrow said:
So I have read the twighlights anima power and I wondered if people here think it is too powerful.
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I think it's fine.  Ex1 anima powers sucked and my GM boosted all of them to about half of what Ex2 did.  The anima power will block weak blows, but I don't think it will make that much of a difference fighting powerful creatures.  The other anima powers have also been improved; the Zenith gets additional soak against creatures of darkness, the Night now pay less for suppressing their Charms, etc.
 
The main effect of the Twilight anima power is that the character is now much less vulnerable to ping damage. In PC and 2nd Ed, that's quite a major factor.


 Sure, against powerful beings who end up rolling 20 damage dice even after subtracting soak, it's not much. But that's what a perfect defense is for.


 Where are the people that rave over starmetal's MM armor bonus? The Twilight anima power is multiple applications of it...
 
I wanted a button that said "Is in no way related to the nature of the Caste it belongs to." Seriously, look at all the other Caste powers.


Dawn-Mighty General Fear Power....check


Zenith-Exalted Turn Undead Equivalent...check


Night-Stealthy You-don't-see-me-not-even-my-anima...check


Eclipse-Supernatural Lawyer/Diplomat Stamp...check


Twilight's get a SOAK BONUS? Of course, what was I thinking? They're the wizards/loremasters, of course they get the soak bonus. It's just common sense.


Personally, once I saw the anima powers at the end of the Sol Invictus book, I started using them. Nifty, logical, and my players LOVE them. No contest.
 
LOL I've thought of that, I'll admit.


probaly cause they allready came up with lunars getting the reduced sorcery price.


cant reinvent the wheel.
 
BinaryMoses said:
I wanted a button that said "Is in no way related to the nature of the Caste it belongs to." Seriously, look at all the other Caste powers.
Dawn-Mighty General Fear Power....check


Zenith-Exalted Turn Undead Equivalent...check


Night-Stealthy You-don't-see-me-not-even-my-anima...check


Eclipse-Supernatural Lawyer/Diplomat Stamp...check


Twilight's get a SOAK BONUS? Of course, what was I thinking? They're the wizards/loremasters, of course they get the soak bonus. It's just common sense.


Personally, once I saw the anima powers at the end of the Sol Invictus book, I started using them. Nifty, logical, and my players LOVE them. No contest.
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I'm sorry, how does being the ultimate, exalted champion of all things martial (the Dawn caste) lead to a fear effect? Being intimidating is a presence effect normally, which puts it more in line for the Zenith. The OBVIOUS thing would be an anima effect that assisted combat directly, like adding dice to some kinda combat rolls. The fear thing is just something that works - Great generals are scary. And sorcerors occasionally survive to cast spells. I might consider a little magic armor for my wizard servants too, were I a God.
 
Try this perspective, and see what you think about it.


The anima powers are not there so your character can do his castely things.


The anima powers ARE there so the character does not have to waste time and effort away from doing his castely things.


So:  The Dawn does not sit around fighting extras for a hundred years while the Dragon-Blooded general sits on the back lines.  He just plows through them with a fear effect and gets right to the final duel.


The Zenith does not spend time burying bodies, or fighting through skeletons and zombies to reach the Abyssal animating them.


The Twilight does not sit there getting healed while doing her own healing/spellcasting/whatever.  She is free to provide knowledge, support, and expertise.


The Night does not have to dink around with stealth rolls to get somewhere, he just gets there and can do whatever it is he needs.


The Eclipse does not have to fast-talk his way into the Fair Folk encampment or past the demonic guards of the Yozi cult, he just gets in there.  Not even the ability to sanctify an oath is a compelling power, unless you can get the parties involved to agree to it.
 
Safim said:
I voted for well balanced.
As long as you have to spend motes for it, it quite frankly sucks. 5 essence for a few levels of extra protection (between 3 and 5 for most pcs)... meh.


As soon as the anima banner flares it is nice to have but still not that uber, it protects a sorcerer from weak blows, those of mortals or the last blow of a flurry. that's it.


even at essence 5 it even just negates the damage of a daiklaive. this isn't going to save your life often, you still better have a good armour or don't get hit in the first place.


on the other hand... the often dissed dawn anima power is a very deadly offensive tool in mass combat. an essence 5 dawn can make elite troops run by staring at them and growling a bit. the same elite troops would probably kill a twilight relying on his anima to save him.


yes that is not a fair comparison, just pointing out that stuff is not always the way it looks on the paper.
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Hmm i don't know, if it was a me i would gladly pay 5 motes to negate 3 to 5 health levels that would be otherwise inficted on me. I mean this is exlalted not dnd, these health levels hurt!


I doubt most Twighlight players will be without some kind of good or even artifact armor. A starting twighlight with 3 essence, a level 2 artifact armor(easily aquired at character creation) and 4 stamina will have a soak of 13L and 3health levels negated. This means attacks must reach heights of 21 lethal(13+5 for 2HL+3 for1HL) to have around 50% chance of inficting him damage.


In addition this guy is practically immune to ping and attacks of 16 lethal and under have no chance of hurting him. All this with no combat charms included. Hmm essence gathering temper anyone?


The problem isn't just twighlights anima but its combination with a relatively good but easily found armor. Don't look at twighligh anima as if the twighlight would be naked in combat. I fear that that's the mistake the writer did.  


Yeah an essence 5 dawn would have the advantage because mortals would simply flee, but the twighlight mentioned before would have nothing to fear from mortals. Though...they could still clinch him and neutralize him i suppose.


All that said I like twighlights anima ability, this is exalted after all and these guys are solars, maybe though the other types should have equally ass kicking anima bailities...
 
If a Twilight is relying solely on her anima power to keep her alive, she won't stay so for very long.
 Using it to supplement good artifact armor and defensive charms, especially once the character hits Essence 3 (and about 100-150 xp overall)? It makes her nigh unkillable.


 I wouldn't say it's broken--it's Exalted, after all--but my main concern at chargen was a character that was most likely to survive combat, I'd pick a Twilight.
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Exactly my point, it isn't broken but has the potential of being overpowered when compared to other animas.
 
Sorrow said:
The problem isn't just twighlights anima but its combination with a relatively good but easily found armor. Don't look at twighligh anima as if the twighlight would be naked in combat. I fear that that's the mistake the writer did.  
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Depends on the player.  I play a Twilight and haven't worn armor yet.  My PC doesn't even carry a shield.  Does anybody require an Ability to use armor or shields?  They seem like items that would require some practice to use effectively.  Armor doesn't put on itself and shields don't automatically block blows (despite what the game mechanics suggest).
 
Quorlox said:
Depends on the player.  I play a Twilight and haven't worn armor yet.  My PC doesn't even carry a shield.  Does anybody require an Ability to use armor or shields?  They seem like items that would require some practice to use effectively.  Armor doesn't put on itself and shields don't automatically block blows (despite what the game mechanics suggest).
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 This is Exalted. Not quite anime, but a fair chunk of anime physics apply in full force.


 I'd suggest that you try having your Twilight put on some armor, and carry a shield--so much the better if it's artifact for both. Then see how difficult your character is to injure with the anima banner up.


 If it's against your character's concept, well, that's certainly your call. But it doesn't change the fact that the Twilight anima power is better in combination with other defenses.
 
 Â If it's against your character's concept, well, that's certainly your call. But it doesn't change the fact that the Twilight anima power is better in combination with other defenses.
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I think most defenses are better in combination with other defenses.   :D
 
Indeed. However, the Twilight anima power seems more synergistic than other defenses; it shines more when supplementing others.


 I'll use Armor-Penetrating Fang Strike and Essence Venom Strike as an example; apart, both solid charms. Comboed together...
 
Sorrow said:
Safim said:
I voted for well balanced.
As long as you have to spend motes for it, it quite frankly sucks. 5 essence for a few levels of extra protection (between 3 and 5 for most pcs)... meh.


As soon as the anima banner flares it is nice to have but still not that uber, it protects a sorcerer from weak blows, those of mortals or the last blow of a flurry. that's it.


even at essence 5 it even just negates the damage of a daiklaive. this isn't going to save your life often, you still better have a good armour or don't get hit in the first place.


on the other hand... the often dissed dawn anima power is a very deadly offensive tool in mass combat. an essence 5 dawn can make elite troops run by staring at them and growling a bit. the same elite troops would probably kill a twilight relying on his anima to save him.


yes that is not a fair comparison, just pointing out that stuff is not always the way it looks on the paper.
Click to expand...
Hmm i don't know, if it was a me i would gladly pay 5 motes to negate 3 to 5 health levels that would be otherwise inficted on me. I mean this is exlalted not dnd, these health levels hurt!


I doubt most Twighlight players will be without some kind of good or even artifact armor. A starting twighlight with 3 essence, a level 2 artifact armor(easily aquired at character creation) and 4 stamina will have a soak of 13L and 3health levels negated. This means attacks must reach heights of 21 lethal(13+5 for 2HL+3 for1HL) to have around 50% chance of inficting him damage.


In addition this guy is practically immune to ping and attacks of 16 lethal and under have no chance of hurting him. All this with no combat charms included. Hmm essence gathering temper anyone?


The problem isn't just twighlights anima but its combination with a relatively good but easily found armor. Don't look at twighligh anima as if the twighlight would be naked in combat. I fear that that's the mistake the writer did.  


Yeah an essence 5 dawn would have the advantage because mortals would simply flee, but the twighlight mentioned before would have nothing to fear from mortals. Though...they could still clinch him and neutralize him i suppose.


All that said I like twighlights anima ability, this is exalted after all and these guys are solars, maybe though the other types should have equally ass kicking anima bailities...
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the anima power alone will fail you, so you pay 5 motes to supplement some defense by adding 3-5 extra soak, the other defense is likely a charm or heavy armour, or you pay just four motes for that perfect defense charm.
 
You don't add soak you negate health levels inficted, something very very different.


Perfect defenses have invulnerability flaws.


Plus activating your anima banner doesn't count as a charm use, so you can still protect yourself while casting sorcery, attacking with a charm or gaining motes with essence gathering temper.
 
And as long as one's anima banner stays at 11-15 or higher, the damage negation applies...for free.


 Yes, Safim, if the power was simply extra soak equal the the Twilight's Permanent Essence, it's decent but not overpowered (and is quite weak if one has to pay 5 motes for it).


 But it's negating health levels. Potentially for free.
 
Where are the people that rave over starmetal's MM armor bonus? The Twilight anima power is multiple applications of it...
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We're keeping a low profile, so our STs don't get wind of our plans to play a Twilight with Starmetal armour, Thunderbolt Shield, and some Chosen of Battles allies.
 
Pffft I know about the health levels I just worded it poorly. It is still only a tiny bit of mitigation in a game that got geared towards very very high damage.


And invulnerability flaws? Oh come on, it is not like most of them will kick in a lot.
 
Actually, half of them kick in every single time. The other two are pretty much up to the *ahem* mercy of the Storyteller.
 
Missing?


I don't see an Under-Powered choice on the poll.  :?


"Ding-dong"


-Hello?


Hi. I'm a mage-lover.


-Oh.  See the sign?


"Reads: Mages are automatically over-powered.  Go away, you finger-wiggling, spoiled brats."


Damn.  Uhm, how about I come back later?


-No dice.


Fine, be that way.


-Bye.


Go to hell.
 
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